Shirk!
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Peace
I don't think "polythiests" is a good way to describe those who set up partners with God.
Our goal is to serve God. But most people serve themselves. Most people follow their egos and desires rather than God.
And if we think about it, that's what causes every "sin."
People who are polythiests believe in falsehood. And that, I believe, is not shirk itself, but the effect of shirk. It is the effect of serving themselves instead of God.Everything bad we do comes from putting ourselves above God. So if we can stop that, we won't do anything bad anymore. That's why true believers do only "good works."
I don't know if I explained clearly enough my thoughts on this.
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salam,
I hope you do not take this in a wrong way.. but as just a question..
Our goal is to serve God. But most people serve themselves. Most people follow their egos and desires rather than God.
may i ask what you used, if not your ego and desires, to say "most people..." etc?
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See http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=10397.0
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peace JM,
may i ask what you used, if not your ego and desires, to say "most people..." etc
That is a fact. Most people do follow their egos and desires rather than reason and intellect (including myself). It's not like a permanent black and white thing. Most are in the middle. We sometimes make the right choices but sometimes don't do the right thing because our emotions/desires/ego clouds our reasoning.
peace Alen,
I agree with you, brother Phoenix1, i agree that true believers are those who really do good deeds but i do have one question why are soemtime sbelievers prevented to do a good deed?
People who do good deeds are believers, people who do bad are not. There are people who are forced to do bad things, but we have to rise up against those forces and do what's right no matter what. Tell me if I didn't get your question.
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Salam.
Brother Phoenix1, you said"People who do good deeds are believers, people who do bad are not. There are people who are forced to do bad things, but we have to rise up against those forces and do what's right no matter what. Tell me if I didn't get your question."
You didn't quite answer me.
I wanted to do good deeds, good things and that was my plan, The God Almighty knows what i would do, (if i evermade a fortune in H'wood), but i got deported, right? That's what i emant.
Why is some terrorist allowed to enter the States and all doors are open for him but i intended good and got punished with deportation and a ban?The God knows and i have been thinking about this since i got back from Frisco.
Peace.
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peace Alen,
You didn't quite answer me.
I wanted to do good deeds, good things and that was my plan, The God Almighty knows what i would do, (if i evermade a fortune in H'wood), but i got deported, right? That's what i emant.
Why is some terrorist allowed to enter the States and all doors are open for him but i intended good and got punished with deportation and a ban?I knew I didn't quite get your question. Anyway, things happen to us that are out of our control.
I read this novel recently about these black people living in a racist white society. They are treated badly, and as a result, they do horrible things (like rape their own daughters). We had a discussion in our english class about this, and most kids said that it was society's fault. That the racism and hatred present in society is what caused the bad deeds. The man raped his daughter because society made him the way he was.
The fact is that society cannot be blamed.
Things happen to us that aren't in our control. We are put into testing situations, we have a lot of bad influences in the world, but our job is to ignore those influences, and find a way to do the right thing. You have to find a way to do good things no matter what happens.
And you remember Moses's story, where he keeps asking the man questions about why he killed the boy, etc. The lesson in that story is that things happen that might seem bad, but they might not be so bad after all.
Think about it, you could've gone to hollywood and no one would've let you make a movie. Or maybe something bad might've happened to you there.
So maybe it's not such a bad thing for you after all (not going to hollywood). Maybe there's something better in store for you. And even if it is a bad thing, you have to find a way to get your message out. Your aspirations are your possibilities, and if you really want to make a good movie, you will. -
peace JM,That is a fact. Most people do follow their egos and desires rather than reason and intellect (including myself). It's not like a permanent black and white thing. Most are in the middle. We sometimes make the right choices but sometimes don't do the right thing because our emotions/desires/ego clouds our reasoning.
salam,thanks..
i'm not sure how you come to group emotions wirh desires and especially ego.. but even so, is something like the desire to eat and feed one's family a bad thing? or even at a more basic level lets look at a small infant... does the infant's "desire" to eat a bad thing? also when an infant laughs and smiles coulds reasoning?
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Our goal is to serve God. But most people serve themselves. Most people follow their egos and desires rather than God.
Salam
you sound like talking about yuorself
Cheers
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Peace Phoenix
There is no word in English for shirk meaning setting up partners. Polytheists is a person
Who believes or worships many gods.I like to point out an interesting example from the Quraan how a person can ascribe his wealth and children as partners to Allah.
18 32 - 42
32 Set forth to them the parable of two men for one of them We provided two gardens of grapevines and surrounded them with date-palms in between the two We placed corn-fields.
33 Each of those gardens brought forth its produce and failed not in the least therein in the midst of them We caused a river to flow.
34 (Abundant) was the produce this man had he said to his companion in the course of a mutual argument "More wealth have I than you and more honor and power in (my following of) men."
35 He went into his garden in a state (of mind) unjust to his soul He said "I deem not that this will ever perish.
36 "Nor do I deem that the Hour (of Judgment) will (ever) come even if I am brought back to my Lord I shall surely find (there) something better in exchange."
37 His companion said to him in the course of the argument with him "Dost thou deny Him Who created thee out of dust then out of a sperm-drop then fashioned thee into a man?
38 "But (I think) for my part that He is Allah my Lord and none shall I associate with my Lord.39 "Why didst thou not as thou wentest into thy garden say `Allah's Will (be done)! There is no power but with Allah!' If thou dost see me less than thee in wealth and sons40 "It may be that my Lord will give me something better than thy garden and that He will send on thy garden thunderbolts (by way of reckoning) from heaven making it (but) slippery sand!
41 "Or the water of the garden will run off underground so that thou wilt never be able to find it."
42 So his fruits (and enjoyment) were encompassed (with ruin) and he remained twisting and turning his hands over what he had spent on his property which had (now) tumbled to pieces to its very foundations and he could only say "Woe is me! would I had never ascribed partners to my Lord and Cherisher!" -
salam,thanks..
i'm not sure how you come to group emotions wirh desires and especially ego.. but even so, is something like the desire to eat and feed one's family a bad thing? or even at a more basic level lets look at a small infant... does the infant's "desire" to eat a bad thing? also when an infant laughs and smiles coulds reasoning?
peace Mehdi
I'm not too sure about that either -
but this is my reasoning
If I follow my ego, I will not be able to ignore my bad desires and follow them even though I know I'm doing the wrong thing.
We all have thoughts and desires and emotions, but we must control them, and not be controlled by them. We have to ignore the bad and listen to the good.
Feeding oneself is not a desire, it's a need. We need to do that naturally to survive. So although I get your point, I don't think that example fits.This is the scenario I talked about with Alien (in the "lecture"
(this is how I'm picturing it)
You are sitting at a blue, rectangular table. On your both sides, there are a few people that are poor and hungry. You are wearing a red shirt, and they are wearing old, dirty, torn red shirts.
You also have an apple. Although the apple is not there in what I'm seeing. Let's imagine it is there, and let's also pretend that it is large enough to feed a few poor and hungry people.
So, you really want to eat that apple, but here are these people who need the apple much more than you.
What do you do?
do you eat the apple yourself, or do you share it with others?THe thing is that most people on this forum, the great people that they are, WILL share the apple. Or at least they know that is what they should do.
If you eat the whole damn thing yourself, what have you done?
and what have you done if you share it?People do bad things, right? why do they do bad things? anyone, anything. Why?
the answer is selfishness.People believe in false things, right? even though they know they have no proof, and even that they are wrong? yes they do. But why? why are people "kafir?" because they believe what they WANT to believe. They don't care about what is true, they care about themselves. Again, selfishness.
peace Warner,
the man cares about his wealth and his children more than God, but why? How does it start?
that's what I'm trying to get to. -
So, you really want to eat that apple, but here are these people who need the apple much more than you.
What do you do?
do you eat the apple yourself, or do you share it with others?Peace Phoenix,
I know you don?t like getting into philosophical details, but I would be interested to know what you think, I realise it?s slightly tangential.
Just imagine you are starving along with 2 other people. Only you have one apple. Would you divide the apple in exactly 3 equal pieces and share; divide it unequally in 3 pieces according to who needs it the most; or give it all away to the others and not eat anything yourself, and would doing so constitute deferred suicide?
Zak
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peace Alien,
I know you don?t like getting into philosophical details, but I would be interested to know what you think, I realise it?s slightly tangential.
I'm not a big detail person, but as long as it is philosophical... I wanted to ignore the details at that point because I wanted to make sure I got my basic point across.
Just imagine you are starving along with 2 other people. Only you have one apple. Would you divide the apple in exactly 3 equal pieces and share; divide it unequally in 3 pieces according to who needs it the most; or give it all away to the others and not eat anything yourself, and would doing so constitute deferred suicide?
I don't know. I think it depends on a lot of things. I would try to divide it equally (as the owner of the apple, I should be fair). And if I was hungry, or if I needed food too, I would eat some of that apple.
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I don't know. I think it depends on a lot of things. I would try to divide it equally (as the owner of the apple, I should be fair). And if I was hungry, or if I needed food too, I would eat some of that apple.
Peace Phoenix
I agree that you should have a share yourself. I believe the rest is not in the realm of religion but personal ideology.
Zak