As'haab-il Kahf - Number and Location
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Peace.... Tilihawa...
That's an astounding explanation... I have never read something like that before...
But let's stick with Quran grammar and word usage... Suppose if I am to accept your understanding and interpretation then what is the meaning "He found in/near IT (Inda'Ha) " ? Is it probably just a community where the solar eclipse took place? Perhaps they were worshiping the sun and eclipse in fear... So that Dulqarnain was ordered to punish them... If not why to punish just a people who are living in a place wherever he goes.. Everywhere corrupted disbelievers on earth... But this could be a visible sight which Dulqarnain experienced.. So gave the option to punish them or leave them... while for yajuj and majuj it was not given such order... Corruption yajuj majuj or worshiping Sun (shirk) worse?
Just explain.. Are the grammar suit to your interpretation without any ambiguity... If so.. That's an achievement of life time at least for my point of view... ... Yeah.. I was wondering all these years.. What is that we have not given them any covering from sun... Had he gone to New Zealand or Kiribati or such places where sun first rise there are shades foe people to cover... And the usage of He found twice in this is little peculiar...
Keep researching... I think something is coming out from you...
O God I am really thankful to you that I am in this forum...Additional note Antarctica you said... But there cannot be any people there.. But God has mentioned people.. Just verify...
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Peace Tilihawa..
Don't need to choose a land on which sitra never collide with Sun...
We will never know where Dulqarnain went.. But there must be on this earth where never solar eclipse happens...By the way... Why in almost every language they call it solar eclipse and lunar eclipse... While moon is the factor for solar eclipse and moon is the one which getting eclipsed in lunar eclipse... In both moon is common.. Something people did know that they differentiated between two eclipses.. Okay sun is hidden so they kept solar eclipse.. But never given any weight to moon there.... Whatever.. I am looking forward to your research.. I am really astonished with your research not coz I do believe in geocentric or rather stationary earth but it is in fact great research which I never seen anyone claim so within Quran.. And within Quran words..
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Salam Jkhan,
Yes, I agree. Simply we can call it going south. Since I don't know which part of Antarctica, and Antarctica is so vast, so I don't know exactly where he went. And regarding no people in there, we don't know yet since I heard nothing more about research in Antarctica to areas far beyond the south pole.The last research was only from Admiral Richard E. Byrd who stated that there was still a large landmass behind the south pole in his interview in 1954. No native Antarctica found to date, doesn't mean that they don't exist. You can check this Operation High Jump Led by US Navy back in 1946 to Antarctica,
https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Highjump
This called task Force 68 and included 4,700 men, 13 ships, and 33 aircraft. One massive military mobilization. Did they expect to meet other people there?
But it's ok. I believe the Quran provides information far beyond the reach of my eyes and my knowledge.
4153 We will show them Our signs in the horizons, and within themselves, until it becomes clear to them that this is the truth. Is it not enough that your Lord is witness over all things?
I will patiently wait until Allah reveals the truth on the horizon.
*In the navigational map projection, north pole is the center of the earth under the Polaris or Pole star, so no matter where you are when you look at the horizon, you look towards the south, if you know what I mean ) *
https//i.ibb.co/bPq1g18/New-Standard-Map.jpg
So now let's continue with Al Kahfi,
1891 And verily, We have encompassed of what was with him of the information.
1892 Then he followed the means.
1893 Until he reached an area that was between two barriers <sadayni>, he found within it a people who could barely understand anything said.
note
sadayni = two barriers
saddan = a barrier1894 They said "O Dhul-qarnain, Yajuj and Majuj are corrupters of the land, so shall we make agreement with you that you will make between us and them a barrier <saddan>?"
So from here, we see Dhul Qarnain continue his journey until he reached between two barriers, the existing barriers. We called it Saddan, And the people there asked Dhul Qarnain to make them another Saddan to separate them from Yajuj and Majuj.
And Dhul Qarnain said,
1895 He said "What my Lord has given me is far better. So help me with strength and I will make between you and them a RADMAN <patch>."
Ra-Dal-Miim = to shut, block, fill up, a thing which one part is put upon another or joined or sewed. radmin - rampart, strong wall.
Furthermore about Radman,
https//i.ibb.co/ZT8ZSb8/radman.png
So let me explain what I see here with a picture,
https//i.ibb.co/7CK5CjC/patch.png
Dhul Qarnain reaches a place which is the gap between two barriers (two Saddan or Sadayni), and he made a patch to cover the gap, called radman.
Now let's see what this Radman was made of,
1896 "Bring me sheets of iron," until he leveled between the two barriers. He said "Blow," until he made it fire. He said "Bring me molten copper <qit'ran> so I can pour it over."
1897 So they could not aware of it <yaẓharūhu> , and they could not penetrate it.
1898 He said "This is a mercy from my Lord. But when the promise of my Lord comes, He will make it crumble. And the promise of my Lord is truth."
This is the same material used to make the sky, metal and molten copper. Let's look back at how the sky was created.
Let's start with the Taurat first,
Job 3718
tar-qî-a‘ ‘im-mōw liš-ḥā-qîm; ḥă-zā-qîm, kir-’î mū-ṣāq.
Have you spread out with Him the skies Strong as a mirror cast metal?And from Al Quran,
4111 Then He directed towards the sky, while it was duskiness (dukhanun), and He said to it, and to the earth "Come willingly or unwillingly." They said "We come willingly."
You can see the context of Dal-Kha-Nun in here,
https//i.ibb.co/L5RXLSx/dukhanun.png
So the darkness of the night sky that we see is a metallic color.
Let me explain further,
5533 O assembly of Jinn and mankind, if you can penetrate the molten copper <aqtari> of the heavens and the earth, then go ahead and penetrate. You will not penetrate without might.
5535 He sends against both of you projectiles of fire, and of copper; so you will not succeed.
Aqtari <qāf ṭā rā> here is the same Qitran <qāf ṭā rā> used by Dhul Qarnain when he established the Radman.
So basically what Dhul Qarnain was doing is re-simulating the creation of the sky with molten copper that protects against sight and penetration. However he stated that what God made was much better.
I believe that this story is told as knowledge for me, maybe for us.
I understand this story in this way, because I have a previous basis for understanding the creation of the universe, which can be seen here
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9609156.msg413444#msg413444
In this link is my attempt to look within oneself to understand the phenomena of the universe..
Again,
4153 We will show them Our signs in the horizons, and within themselves, until it becomes clear to them that this is the truth. Is it not enough that your Lord is witness over all things?
Peace
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Peace brother Tilihawa...
You brought a gem of research when you talked about sitra or black eye.. Based on that I refreshed so many things..
Thank you for that.. I don't know how hard you exerted to reveal this... But I can't do anything more than thanking you..Have you noticed in chapter 18 almost all stories somewhat connected with BLOCKING.. ..
BTW 5533 is possibly right as per the interpretation you furnished... It can still be borders (atraf)... Anyhow.. God bless you more more to find meaningful researches which is none other than truth..
Don't worry if you get negative responses.. 99 out of 100 would not agree with you as if they are based on concrete proof agaisnt your research.. Just neglect them.. Unless if they speak the truth... -
Salam Jkhan,
Have you noticed in chapter 18 almost all stories somewhat connected with BLOCKING.. ..
Yes you're right. Just realize that. The cave that protect the youth, sitran, saddan, radman.. Thank you for your feedback brother.
20114 Then High above all is God, the King, the True. And do not be hasty with the Qur'an before its inspiration is completed to you, and say "My Lord, increase my knowledge."
May Allah increase our knowledge.
Peace
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Salam Jkhan,
Yes you're right. Just realize that. The cave that protect the youth, sitran, saddan, radman.. Thank you for your feedback brother.20114 Then High above all is God, the King, the True. And do not be hasty with the Qur'an before its inspiration is completed to you, and say "My Lord, increase my knowledge."
May Allah increase our knowledge.
Peace
Yes.. Good verse...
At the same time.. What about musa stories in the chapter.. Aren't they all blocking stores.. Scuttled the boat..blocked the way to capture... Killed the boy.. Blocked the way to reach their parents and hinder their life.. Repaired the wall.. Blocked the way from others taking the treasure..
Garden.. Destroyed.. Blocked from having the much anticipated harvest..
God knows best.. What actually blocking the sun in solar eclipse... -
Salam Jkhan,
Yes.. Good verse...
At the same time.. What about musa stories in the chapter.. Aren't they all blocking stores.. Scuttled the boat..blocked the way to capture... Killed the boy.. Blocked the way to reach their parents and hinder their life.. Repaired the wall.. Blocked the way from others taking the treasure..
Garden.. Destroyed.. Blocked from having the much anticipated harvest..
God knows best.. What actually blocking the sun in solar eclipse...Yes,you right, That's the beauty of Al Quran. It can explain so many things at the same basic idea.
Peace
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Salaam Jkhan,
You're welcome.I would like to share my opinion regarding Al Kahfi and some related verses. I'm not a good writer but hopefully can be understood. So let start with these verses,
1883 And they ask you about the Dhul-Qarnain, say "I will recite to you a remembrance of him."
1884 We had facilitated for him in the land, and We had given him the means to all things.
1885 So he followed the means.
1886 Hatta idha balagha maghriba' shamsi wajadaha taghrubu fī ʿaynin ḥami-atin wawajada ʿindahā qawman qul'nā yādhā l-qarnayni immā an tuʿadhiba wa-immā an tattakhidha fīhim ḥus'nan
And here is my translation for the last verse above,
1886 Until he reaches the disappearance of the sun; he found it hidden in black eyes, and he found people nearby. We said "O Dhul-Qarnain One, will you punish, or will you do well."
Yes, this translation may be confusing, but let me explain,
Usually maghrib <Ghayn-Ra-Ba> is translated as the place where the sun sets, or west. But in this context I use a different meaning from taghrubu <Ghayn-Ra-Ba>, as follows
= Ghayn-Ra-Ba = went/passed away, depart/retire/remove/disappear, become remote/distant/absent/hidden/black, withdraw, western, foreign/strange, exceed, abundance, sharpness, (maghrib = sunset), black, raven-black, setting place of the sun, the west.
Furthermore
https//i.ibb.co/Jch6x3X/taghrubu.png
and concerning aynin ḥami-atin or black eye,
Aynin
Ayn-Ya-Nun = to hurt in the eye, smite anyone with the evil eye, flow tears, become a spy. Aayan - to view, face. 'Ainun - eye, look, hole, but of a tree, spy, middle letter of a trilateral word, spring of water, chief, personage of a place. A'yan (pl. 'Inun) lovely, wide-eyed, lovely black eyed. Ma'iinun - water, spring.
Hamiatin
https//i.ibb.co/Ph6QhZQ/hamiatin.png
So the aynin ḥami-atin is the black eye. Or Black part of the eye. Now let me show you this picture,
https//i.ibb.co/C1XM57H/eyes.jpg
Source https//health.clevelandclinic.org/15-fascinating-facts-about-your-eyes-infographic-2/
Did you notice this?
https//i.ibb.co/rfGWst3/eclipse-sun.jpg
Image
Paul Morley/FotoliaThis is a natural phenomenon that we know as solar eclipse. So the sun wasn't setting in the west, or in a muddy spring, but it's disappearing behind black eyes or what is mentioned in the next verse as Sitran. So let me continue,
1889 Then he followed the means.
1890 Thumma atbaʿa sababan ḥattā idhā balagha maṭliʿal-shamsi wajadahā taṭluʿu ʿalā qawmin lam najʿal lahum min dūnihā sit'ran
Note that this time Zulkarnain continued his journey to matlial shamsi, and this was not to the east, because as far as I know, east in Arabic is called mashriq. So what is focused in these two verses is about the place of the sun, not the east and west indicator. Like the example in 2115.
And here is my translation for 1890
1890 So when he reached the place exposed by the sun, he found it rising on a people whom We did not make for them any cover <sitran> against it.
So this black eye or sitran is a cover to the sun during the solar eclipse.
Now the questions are,
- Is there a place on earth that has never experienced a solar eclipse?
- Why is it called sitran? why not the moon or al qamar?
I found the answer that,
- Yes, there are areas on earth that have never experienced a solar eclipse.
Let me show you this map of the total solar eclipse path for the 1000 years
https//i.ibb.co/pQ6Scnj/Total-Solar-Eclipse-Paths-1001-2000.gif
The periodicity and recurrence of eclipses is governed by the Saros cycle, Nasa also using this cycle to predict the eclipse.
As you can see on the map, the further south we go, the greater chance of getting the places that have never experienced solar eclipse. So I believe that Dhul-Qarnain were going south to the place that we knew as antarctica.
The second question,
- Why the thing that blocked the sun during eclipse is called sitran or cover?
Modern science states that a solar eclipse occurs because the moon blocks the sun. But now I do believe that it's not the moon, but there is another celestial body called the "black eye" that covers the sun.
And neither the moon and the sun will ever cross paths,
3640 The sun is not permitted to overtake the moon, nor will the night precede the day; each of them is swimming in its own orbit.
Also the moon is not a solid object. There are quite a lot of videos circulating on Youtube about how we can see the stars through the moon, especially during the crescent moon where there is a dark area. Just search star through the moon.
And this is an ancient knowledge, maybe you already know about it, from wikipedia,
https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_and_crescenthttps//i.ibb.co/z7hnNHV/star-and-crecent.png
Now this crescent and star symbol is used as islamic symbol, but the knowledge of this existed long before.
But that's not the only thing that makes me even more convinced. Now let me share these verses,
Let start with the moon first,
541
iq'tarabati = Has come near
l-sāʿatu = the Hour
wa-inshaqqa = and has cloven
l-qamaru = the moon.inshaqqa
= Shiin-Qaf-Qaf = pass along the way, cross, open a way/passage/vent/channel, cut/split/divided/clave/ripped/tore.
So the cloven here is in the context that something can penetrate it. and here is the example of the context,
https//i.ibb.co/cxX3TpJ/bulan-terbelah-2.png
Just like the lightning going through the clouds.
And let see about the star,
861 By the sky and the night comer<tariqi>.
862 And do you know what the night comer <tariqi> is?
863 The star that piercing.
So these verses explain the phenomenon of star through the moon earlier.
So if the moon is something transparent or cloven, then it is impossible for the moon to block the sun during an eclipse and leave us in total darkness. So the black eye or Sitran is another celestial body that blocks the sun as described in Al Kahfi.
This is also not a knowledge that people have never known before. You can google Rahu and Ketu.
Wikipedia said,
Rāhu (Sanskrit राहु)(U+260A.svg) is one of the nine major celestial bodies (navagraha) in Hindu texts. Unlike most of the others, Rahu is a shadow entity, one that causes eclipses and is the king of meteors.
And if you like playing with numbers, here's an interesting fact,
Rahu-Ketu
As per Hindu astrology, Rahu and Ketu have an orbital cycle of 18 years and are always 180 degrees from each other orbitally (as well as in the birth charts).Saros Cycle
The periodicity and recurrence of eclipses is governed by the Saros cycle, a period of approximately 6,585.3 days (18 years 11 days 8 hours). It was known to the Chaldeans as a period when lunar eclipses seem to repeat themselves, but the cycle is applicable to solar eclipses as well.An it explained well in Al Quran in Surah 18
I will continue later with the structure built by Dhul-Qarnain, since we are so close to the land where the sky and earth met. Inyasa Allah
Peace
Salam tlihawa,
Interesting interpretation! Will definitely take time for me to understand and validate what you wrote ...meanwhile please keep up!
Wasalam
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Salaam Jkhan,
You're welcome.I would like to share my opinion regarding Al Kahfi and some related verses. I'm not a good writer but hopefully can be understood. So let start with these verses,
1883 And they ask you about the Dhul-Qarnain, say "I will recite to you a remembrance of him."
1884 We had facilitated for him in the land, and We had given him the means to all things.
1885 So he followed the means.
1886 Hatta idha balagha maghriba' shamsi wajadaha taghrubu fī ʿaynin ḥami-atin wawajada ʿindahā qawman qul'nā yādhā l-qarnayni immā an tuʿadhiba wa-immā an tattakhidha fīhim ḥus'nan
And here is my translation for the last verse above,
1886 Until he reaches the disappearance of the sun; he found it hidden in black eyes, and he found people nearby. We said "O Dhul-Qarnain One, will you punish, or will you do well."
Yes, this translation may be confusing, but let me explain,
Usually maghrib <Ghayn-Ra-Ba> is translated as the place where the sun sets, or west. But in this context I use a different meaning from taghrubu <Ghayn-Ra-Ba>, as follows
= Ghayn-Ra-Ba = went/passed away, depart/retire/remove/disappear, become remote/distant/absent/hidden/black, withdraw, western, foreign/strange, exceed, abundance, sharpness, (maghrib = sunset), black, raven-black, setting place of the sun, the west.
Furthermore
https//i.ibb.co/Jch6x3X/taghrubu.png
and concerning aynin ḥami-atin or black eye,
Aynin
Ayn-Ya-Nun = to hurt in the eye, smite anyone with the evil eye, flow tears, become a spy. Aayan - to view, face. 'Ainun - eye, look, hole, but of a tree, spy, middle letter of a trilateral word, spring of water, chief, personage of a place. A'yan (pl. 'Inun) lovely, wide-eyed, lovely black eyed. Ma'iinun - water, spring.
Hamiatin
https//i.ibb.co/Ph6QhZQ/hamiatin.png
So the aynin ḥami-atin is the black eye. Or Black part of the eye. Now let me show you this picture,
https//i.ibb.co/C1XM57H/eyes.jpg
Source https//health.clevelandclinic.org/15-fascinating-facts-about-your-eyes-infographic-2/
Did you notice this?
https//i.ibb.co/rfGWst3/eclipse-sun.jpg
Image Paul Morley/FotoliaThis is a natural phenomenon that we know as solar eclipse. So the sun wasn't setting in the west, or in a muddy spring, but it's disappearing behind black eyes or what is mentioned in the next verse as Sitran. So let me continue,
1889 Then he followed the means.
1890 Thumma atbaʿa sababan ḥattā idhā balagha maṭliʿal-shamsi wajadahā taṭluʿu ʿalā qawmin lam najʿal lahum min dūnihā sit'ran
Note that this time Zulkarnain continued his journey to matlial shamsi, and this was not to the east, because as far as I know, east in Arabic is called mashriq. So what is focused in these two verses is about the place of the sun, not the east and west indicator. Like the example in 2115.
And here is my translation for 1890
1890 So when he reached the place exposed by the sun, he found it rising on a people whom We did not make for them any cover <sitran> against it.
So this black eye or sitran is a cover to the sun during the solar eclipse.
Now the questions are,
- Is there a place on earth that has never experienced a solar eclipse?
- Why is it called sitran? why not the moon or al qamar?
I found the answer that,
- Yes, there are areas on earth that have never experienced a solar eclipse.
Let me show you this map of the total solar eclipse path for the 1000 years
https//i.ibb.co/pQ6Scnj/Total-Solar-Eclipse-Paths-1001-2000.gif
The periodicity and recurrence of eclipses is governed by the Saros cycle, Nasa also using this cycle to predict the eclipse.
As you can see on the map, the further south we go, the greater chance of getting the places that have never experienced solar eclipse. So I believe that Dhul-Qarnain were going south to the place that we knew as antarctica.
The second question,
- Why the thing that blocked the sun during eclipse is called sitran or cover?
Modern science states that a solar eclipse occurs because the moon blocks the sun. But now I do believe that it's not the moon, but there is another celestial body called the "black eye" that covers the sun.
And neither the moon and the sun will ever cross paths,
3640 The sun is not permitted to overtake the moon, nor will the night precede the day; each of them is swimming in its own orbit.
Also the moon is not a solid object. There are quite a lot of videos circulating on Youtube about how we can see the stars through the moon, especially during the crescent moon where there is a dark area. Just search star through the moon.
And this is an ancient knowledge, maybe you already know about it, from wikipedia,
https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_and_crescenthttps//i.ibb.co/z7hnNHV/star-and-crecent.png
Now this crescent and star symbol is used as islamic symbol, but the knowledge of this existed long before.
But that's not the only thing that makes me even more convinced. Now let me share these verses,
Let start with the moon first,
541
iq'tarabati = Has come near
l-sāʿatu = the Hour
wa-inshaqqa = and has cloven
l-qamaru = the moon.inshaqqa
= Shiin-Qaf-Qaf = pass along the way, cross, open a way/passage/vent/channel, cut/split/divided/clave/ripped/tore.
So the cloven here is in the context that something can penetrate it. and here is the example of the context,
https//i.ibb.co/cxX3TpJ/bulan-terbelah-2.png
Just like the lightning going through the clouds.
And let see about the star,
861 By the sky and the night comer<tariqi>.
862 And do you know what the night comer <tariqi> is?
863 The star that piercing.
So these verses explain the phenomenon of star through the moon earlier.
So if the moon is something transparent or cloven, then it is impossible for the moon to block the sun during an eclipse and leave us in total darkness. So the black eye or Sitran is another celestial body that blocks the sun as described in Al Kahfi.
This is also not a knowledge that people have never known before. You can google Rahu and Ketu.
Wikipedia said,
Rāhu (Sanskrit राहु)(U+260A.svg) is one of the nine major celestial bodies (navagraha) in Hindu texts. Unlike most of the others, Rahu is a shadow entity, one that causes eclipses and is the king of meteors.
And if you like playing with numbers, here's an interesting fact,
Rahu-Ketu
As per Hindu astrology, Rahu and Ketu have an orbital cycle of 18 years and are always 180 degrees from each other orbitally (as well as in the birth charts).Saros Cycle
The periodicity and recurrence of eclipses is governed by the Saros cycle, a period of approximately 6,585.3 days (18 years 11 days 8 hours). It was known to the Chaldeans as a period when lunar eclipses seem to repeat themselves, but the cycle is applicable to solar eclipses as well.An it explained well in Al Quran in Surah 18
I will continue later with the structure built by Dhul-Qarnain, since we are so close to the land where the sky and earth met. Inyasa Allah
Peace
Peace brother Tilihiwa...
I think your research is much convinced to me... needless to ensure others, let them understand if they want to...
time i spend with John actually paid off in favor of me..i hope you get me what i am saying... he also has a concern of what dulqarnain saw / found... "found it hidden" rotfl
thank you...
in addition pls see my PM
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Salam jkhan,
Peace brother Tilihiwa...
I think your research is much convinced to me... needless to ensure others, let them understand if they want to...
yes understood. I realized that it was not my responsibility to convince others. Just trying to share what I think.
Peace