Previous Revelations also in Arabic Language
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Peace,
Yes, but it doesn't refer at all, that the same kind of language was used. Only the same qualities were shared by the languages, but not the same kind of words, tones and so on. The languages were all clear, errorfree, distinct.
Quran only calls its own language "mubeen/clear" and "error-free", and not other languages. The same quality is not shared by other languages.
So yes, the same language was used.
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Peace,
Yes i have read it, and like i said, it because you approach the word 'arabi' as a title and not as a description. The Quran, which is part of Al-Kitab, as all Revelations were and are part of Al-Kitab, is revealed in a clear and errorfree=arab speech. And all Revelations were revealed in an errorfree clear speech.
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Peace,
Yes i have read it, and like i said, it because you approach the word 'arabi' as a title and not as a description. The Quran, which is part of Al-Kitab, as all Revelations were and are part of Al-Kitab, is revealed in a clear and errorfree=arab speech. And all Revelations were revealed in an errorfree clear speech.
Why should I not approach 'arabi' as a title, when I can clearly see that the language of the Quran is Arabic? Any reasons?
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Peace,
As this contradicts the history of the word. There was no 'arab' language. Every tribe had their dialect, and was called after their tribe. There was no 'arab' tribe. Only after the Quran did the Quraish dialect became the dominant dialect, and became it a common language. Only then did the attribute, it being an errorfree speech=arab, only then did the dialect attribute become also its title. And centuries after started people calling themselves after the language. So the term arabi moved from attribute which any language could have, to become a title of the Quranic dialect and later on a title of a people.
You maybe will reject the history of the word, but this in itself is contradicting as any word has a history of where its meaning was taken from. For example you can reject jahannam coming from the ancient hebrew meaning ja=valley of hannom, and you will only accept the meaning hell. But the meaning hell also comes from history. So it depends were you stop in the acceptance of the history of the word. Jahannam coming from the valley name is the 500BC meaning, hell is the 50BC meaning. Why prefer the 50BC meaning over the 500BC meaning?
The same holds for choosing arabi as a title. In 600AD, it only meant errorfree speech and could be used for any clear dialect. In 800-900AD it became the title of the Quranic dialect, and after 1000AD it became a title for a people. Why do you choose the 800-900AD meaning and not the 600AD meaning?
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26192 this revelation / what is sent has come from Allah.
26195 In a distinct and errorfree language uncorrupted.
26 196 It is in the books of former peoples.You see no change in Allah's way of handling. The Quran is in a clear language, so everytime Allah chose the best dialects of countries to convey the messages.
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Peace,
As this contradicts the history of the word. There was no 'arab' language. Every tribe had their dialect, and was called after their tribe. There was no 'arab' tribe. Only after the Quran did the Quraish dialect became the dominant dialect, and became it a common language. Only then did the attribute, it being an errorfree speech=arab, only then did the dialect attribute become also its title. And centuries after started people calling themselves after the language. So the term arabi moved from attribute which any language could have, to become a title of the Quranic dialect and later on a title of a people.
You maybe will reject the history of the word, but this in itself is contradicting as any word has a history of where its meaning was taken from. For example you can reject jahannam coming from the ancient hebrew meaning ja=valley of hannom, and you will only accept the meaning hell. But the meaning hell also comes from history. So it depends were you stop in the acceptance of the history of the word. Jahannam coming from the valley name is the 500BC meaning, hell is the 50BC meaning. Why prefer the 50BC meaning over the 500BC meaning?
The same holds for choosing arabi as a title. In 600AD, it only meant errorfree speech and could be used for any clear dialect. In 800-900AD it became the title of the Quranic dialect, and after 1000AD it became a title for a people. Why do you choose the 800-900AD meaning and not the 600AD meaning?
Of course it contradicts history, and of course I reject it. Al-kitaab has been kept hidden throughout the history you are talking about, by those from whom God had taken the covenant to disclose it to people(3187). The book of God wiped out from history, and replaced by their own versions of THE book, and their languages.
So no 'Quranic' reasons?
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Peace,
No answer the question; who do you choose the 800-900AD meaning of the word arabi when it became a title, and not the 600AD meaning when it was a word with meaning?
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Peace,
No answer the question; who do you choose the 800-900AD meaning of the word arabi when it became a title, and not the 600AD meaning when it was a word with meaning?
I was not present either in 800-900 AD , or in 600AD. I accept the meaning which the Quran gives me NOW. I will not be relying on man-written history to shape my understanding of Quran.
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Salaams All,
even though i am dispointed at Fahad for not being able to comprehend much of what the quran is saying.
Just a quistion to you brothers here.
Even if the word Arabic was used with a meaning - WHAT WAS THE LANGUAGE IN WHICH THE QURAN WAS/IS WRITTEN? and i think we agree it was written in or before the 5th century.
http//www.omniglot.com/writing/arabic.htm
God Bless Those Who don't make their understanding a god.
Thanks all.
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26192 this revelation / what is sent has come from Allah.
26195 In a distinct and errorfree language uncorrupted.
26 196 It is in the books of former peoples.You see no change in Allah's way of handling. The Quran is in a clear language,
The problem is that 'arabi mubeen' is the language of the Quran. And the language of the Quran was used in "books of former people" too.
And if 'arabi' means 'clear' then...
Verse 3928 would mean "clear without crookedness". So what would be "clear WITH crookedness" ?
What is meant by Quran confirming "lisaanan arabian"(4612) ?
Whats the point of verse 4144?
so everytime Allah chose the best dialects of countries to convey the messages.
Then why didn't I receive the Quran in the language of my country?
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@ Simple.
Salaams All,
even though i am dispointed at Fahad for not being able to comprehend much of what the quran is saying.
Just a quistion to you brothers here.
Even if the word Arabic was used with a meaning - WHAT WAS THE LANGUAGE IN WHICH THE QURAN WAS/IS WRITTEN? and i think we agree it was written in or before the 5th century.
http//www.omniglot.com/writing/arabic.htm
God Bless Those Who don't make their understanding a god.
Thanks all.
I am not being able to comprehend? YOU are the one who deletes his posts and changes his understanding every few days, then says "we can all make mistakes". If you make mistakes so many times and if you are not sure about what you are saying, you shouldn't be so strong in your criticism!
You disappoint your own supporters by deleting and changing the theories which were applauded by them.
But I am not disappointed at you for not understanding the Quran. Because I didn't expect you to understand it.
And I am waiting for your reply here
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=6569.msg107398#msg107398
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7086.msg107350#msg107350
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7068.msg106798#msg106798
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7068.msg106865#msg106865
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7068.msg107085#msg107085
God Bless Those Who don't make their understanding a god.
And those too who don't make God a doctor. hehe.
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The problem is that 'arabi mubeen' is the language of the Quran. And the language of the Quran was used in "books of former people" too.
And if 'arabi' means 'clear' then...
Verse 3928 would mean "clear without crookedness". So what would be "clear WITH crookedness" ?
arabi inclines more to errorness and distinct. A lot of arabian dialects had contradicting meanings for words, apparently the Quran dialect not.
What is meant by Quran confirming "lisaanan arabian"(4612) ?
To show you the quality of the language chosen so you know it is clear. Any contradictions in the meaning of words are thus man-made. For example, almost all words coming from the root hajja are linked with the meaning to argue/debate/discuss, and suddenly hajj means only pilgrimage? So when using the overall meaning it shows that hajj is connected with debate/discussion as its main meaning.
Whats the point of verse 4144?
when you translate arab with distinct it becomes more clear i believe. If a different dialect was used, then there would have been more confusion as they were probably not so easy to figure out as the Quranic dialect.
Then why didn't I receive the Quran in the language of my country?
Because He chose the final Revelation to be in this language, as He believes it is clear enough for all of humanity to find out it seems.
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I was not present either in 800-900 AD , or in 600AD. I accept the meaning which the Quran gives me NOW. I will not be relying on man-written history to shape my understanding of Quran.
And that is based on what? Dictionaries will give several meanings for arabi, the 600AD meaning, the 800-900AD meaning. Still you choose to approach the word arab as a title, so you still choose a meaning out of several. This comment has no warrant to say you accept the meaning of now, as the meaning of now is a mishmash of several meanings which has developed in the last 2000 years. You NOW pickup a dictionary, and you will lookup jahannam, it will give 2 meanings, the 500BC valley meaning and the 50BC hell meaning. Which one do you choose? Does this has anything in the least has to do with NOW? I don't believe so.....
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Verse 3928 would mean "clear without crookedness". So what would be "clear WITH crookedness" ?
This is a common style in Arabic and in the quran. I explained it in this thread earlier with examples from the quran (page 2 of this thread)
verse4144
Before I attempt to explain this verse, I will just try to explain briefly how I understand AlKitab and Al Quran, and how they are related to each other.AlKitab is the book of laws and our social affairs. There is nothing miraculous about it and is easier to corrupt. AlQuran, on the other hand, is the book of creation and all that relates to the universe, plus the stories of previous nations and prophets/messengers (thus it can explain history of the world). The way The Book (which we generally call Al Quran) is displayed is that we find in each chapter verses from the quran and verses from alkitab. This is what 1037 is about"and this quran is not such as could ever be produced by other than God, but it is a credential to what is in fron t of it and a seperation of the alkitab, wherein there is no doubt, from God"
Also 413 " a book whose verses are separated in a clear quran"So, the quran is the miraculous part of The Book and works as a separator between the verses of AlKitab
Although both are in clear language, it was al quran which made disbelievers say it was magic. Why? because it was in clear language, yet they could not understand it (for their limited knowledge), just as some one would read a book in medicine but would not understand it
4330-31 " and when the Truth (alquran) came to them, say said This is magic and we disbelieve in it. And they said why this alquran is not sent down to some great man of the two villages/ lands (Persia and Rome)?"
Now verse 4144
"and if we made it an unncomprehensible quran, they would say why not seperate its verses? (i.e put the quran verses together and alkitab verses together). How come Plain/straight and uncomprehensible?"
NB A3jami nonesense, uncomprehensible, dumb - 3ajmaa' (f) beast
3ajami non-Arab -
The problem is that 'arabi mubeen' is the language of the Quran. And the language of the Quran was used in "books of former people" too.
And if 'arabi' means 'clear' then...
Verse 3928 would mean "clear without crookedness". So what would be "clear WITH crookedness" ?
arabi inclines more to errorness and distinct. A lot of arabian dialects had contradicting meanings for words, apparently the Quran dialect not.
What do you mean by "arabian"? Do you mean "Arabian"? If so, then Quran uses the Arabic without crookedness. It only makes sense.
To show you the quality of the language chosen so you know it is clear.
???
Any contradictions in the meaning of words are thus man-made. For example, almost all words coming from the root hajja are linked with the meaning to argue/debate/discuss, and suddenly hajj means only pilgrimage? So when using the overall meaning it shows that hajj is connected with debate/discussion as its main meaning.
Right! And words like "hajja" are words of Arabic language. And you are right that thats how Quran confirms Arabic language (not "arabic/clear/errorfree" language), to shows its main meaning.
That is how Quranic Arabic is without crookedness. While the outside Arabic can contain crookedness.
Whats the point of verse 4144?
when you translate arab with distinct it becomes more clear i believe.
Hardly. Whats the point of saying 'if it we had made it clear/error-free/distinct it would have lacked details'?! Just like there is no point saying "clear without crookedness".
The verse is telling about the property of Arabic language to provide details. It is evident that the Quran being such a small book provides the details of everything necessary.
If a different dialect was used, then there would have been more confusion as they were probably not so easy to figure out as the Quranic dialect.
But you said that different dialects which were used in previous books (according to you) were also clear and easy to figure out as the Quranic dialect?! Then howcome you are saying that different dialects would have caused confusions?! It makes no sense at all, sorry.
Then why didn't I receive the Quran in the language of my country?
Because He chose the final Revelation to be in this language, as He believes it is clear enough for all of humanity to find out it seems.
Why couldn't He believe that Arabic was clear enough for all of humanity of the pre-Quranic generations? Because it does not sit well with the man-written history?!
And if He chose a single language of revelation for all of humanity, then this is a change in Allah's way of handling, because you said every time He chose the best dialects of the countries to convey the message
You see no change in Allah's way of handling. The Quran is in a clear language, so everytime Allah chose the best dialects of countries to convey the messages.
And by the way, Allah sends the messengers in the language of the people/country, not the book.(144)
So many problems in the "error-free/clear" meaning, you see. The "Arabic" meaning fits perfectly in the Quran. The only problem it has is with man-written history.
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And that is based on what? Dictionaries will give several meanings for arabi, the 600AD meaning, the 800-900AD meaning. Still you choose to approach the word arab as a title, so you still choose a meaning out of several. This comment has no warrant to say you accept the meaning of now, as the meaning of now is a mishmash of several meanings which has developed in the last 2000 years. You NOW pickup a dictionary, and you will lookup jahannam, it will give 2 meanings, the 500BC valley meaning and the 50BC hell meaning. Which one do you choose? Does this has anything in the least has to do with NOW? I don't believe so.....
I choose the meaning that fits in the Quran. The "error-free/clear" meaning does not fit as I have shown in my previous post.
And I choose the "Arabic" title meaning because it is very clear/mubeen that the Quran uses Arabic language/lisaan arabi. No wonder why it is called 'lisaan arabi mubeen'. It is very clear/mubeen even without studying the Quran or its language, that it uses Arabic language/lisaan arabi. Because Arabic language is easily recognizable. You don't even need to understand the Quran to know that it is Arabic. That how clear/mubeen Arabic language/lisaan arabi is. This meaning fits perfectly in the Quran.
On the other hand, the "error-free/clear/faultless" meaning will only become clear/mubeen when you study the Quran and its language. Not so mubeen. Doesn't fit.
One of the reasons I choose the title meaning.
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arabi inclines more to errorness and distinct. A lot of arabian dialects had contradicting meanings for words, apparently the Quran dialect not.
What do you mean by "arabian"? Do you mean "Arabian"? If so, then Quran uses the Arabic without crookedness. It only makes sense.
I should have used the Hijaz dialects instead of 'arabian' dialects, as you cannot or will not distuingish the 600AD meaning from the 800-900meaning. My fault.
Right! And words like "hajja" are words of Arabic language. And you are right that thats how Quran confirms Arabic language (not "arabic/clear/errorfree" language), to shows its main meaning.
That is how Quranic Arabic is without crookedness. While the outside Arabic can contain crookedness.
No the outside Quranic dialect can contain crookedness. There was no 'arabian' dialect, there were several tribe dialects, where some were more distinct then others. The Quranic dialect has a consistency in meaning of words coming from the same root, probably other dialects were not that consistent with the root meaning.
when you translate arab with distinct it becomes more clear i believe.
Hardly. Whats the point of saying 'if it we had made it clear/error-free/distinct it would have lacked details'?! Just like there is no point saying "clear without crookedness".
It refers to the consistency of the meaning of words connected with their root. So arab=distinct errorfree speech refers to a dialect that is used which is consistent in its meaning where the words cannot deviade from its rootmeaning.
But you said that different dialects which were used in previous books (according to you) were also clear and easy to figure out as the Quranic dialect?! Then howcome you are saying that different dialects would have caused confusions?! It makes no sense at all, sorry.
Because you are confusing two things. When i talk about older revelations, yes they had the same qualities as the Quran when it came to language, clear and consistent in meaning of words.
When i said different dialects would have caused confusion i was talking AT THE TIME OF THE QURAN'S REVELATION, not about the older Revelations. For example, in the time of the Injeel there were 10 different dialects, 1 was chosen for its clear and consistent meaning of words and the other 9 were not because they were not consistent enough of dominant/well-known enough to correctly spread the message throughout the land.
In the time of the Quran, there were at least 40 different dialects in the Hijaz(the land we now call Arabia). From these 40 dialects, one was chosen to be used for the Quran, as it was consistent in its meaning and thus the best one. It was clear, errorfree, distinct and easy to understand. The other dialects were probably to inconsistent to be used for the Revelation.
Because He chose the final Revelation to be in this language, as He believes it is clear enough for all of humanity to find out it seems.
Why couldn't He believe that Arabic was clear enough for all of humanity of the pre-Quranic generations? Because it does not sit well with the man-written history?!
Because He sended messnegers to all nations of the world, and Arabic was not spoken in America or China otherwise we would have found traces of it in the later languages. You can change a language, but you cannot let it completely change that the original language's influence is not seen back in the current language. It not only contradicts history, it contradicts todays languages origins as far as we know.
And if He chose a single language of revelation for all of humanity, then this is a change in Allah's way of handling, because you said every time He chose the best dialects of the countries to convey the message
And by the way, Allah sends the messengers in the language of the people/country, not the book.(144)
If we follow your logic, indeed it does contradicts and confuses with to many things. I'm open to your idea, but it contradicts to many things. Logic, history, origins of language and so on. I understand your arguments, but for me, the Arab meaning also doesn't really fit. Although most Revelations we know are a form of 'Arabian' dialect, as Hebrew and Aramaic come from the same origins. But this would mean only the Hebrew, Aramaic and Arabian speaking people would have had recieved Revelations, as the 'Arab' language clearly is not found in America or China. And those language do not contain a single word, which can be found in the Quranic dialect. It is almost impossible that not a word can be found in those languages, as you can change a language, but you can not cut it completely off from its origins. This means a language must be completely replaced by another.