Nadeem and Arnold: what is muslim
-
Peace,
Well, Muslims means to submit to the Divine Will. When a person follows these as he sees these are the best ways of conduct, he indeed submits to them, but if he doesn't accept them as something Divine, the person can deviade quickly from them. This can be seen in Western culture where people have developed the Islamic Heritage of the old Islamic world into the Democratic and Free countries we see now. But because they have no guideline, the Quran, the deviade quickly, and are left to trial and error. So they are in agreement to the Divine Laws, but have not really submitted to them. Most seculars agree with the Quranic principles, but because they have no believe in the Divine Will, they can deviade from them when their own knowledge and trust falls short in a situation. Also the laws and values are determined by the majority of a nation, that the modern majority's morals coincides a lot with the Quran is no surprise as the Quran is the constitution for humanity, and contains the morals and values which are common to all humans. But the majority only agrees with some Divine Laws and goes against others in a major way. They are subject to their whims and wishes, and can only see in short term values. The Quran gives long term values, the key to a lasting and developing society. The majority rule cannot do this.
So being Muslim is not about following some fundamental morals and values, but is also sticking to them whatever the majority wants. That is truly submitting to the Divine Laws. For example, drugs is bad for society, people's mind and body and so on. So banning drugs is a Divine Law, a Truth no one can deny, but the majority in the western world does not ban Alcohol or sigarettes and thus do not submit to this Divine Law.
Islam is submitting to ALL Divine Laws, which starts with the submitting to the Laws in the Quran and Nature. And sticking to these, whatever the majority demands. As this is the only way to create the best long-lasting society. This is being a muslim. Does a secular apply to this? I don't believe so....
-
Hi Brother,
So banning drugs is a Divine Law, a Truth no one can deny, but the majority in the western world does not ban Alcohol or sigarettes and thus do not submit to this Divine Law.
Being muslim is an individual act, not a matter of government politics. Most western don't do drugs, that is my experience living in norway.
Everyone can deviate. And wasn't it those who recognized the quran as divine in the first place that corrupted islam?
In my humble opinion, those who are equally sincere have equal chance in identical situations, to deviate or keep on track, regardless of them recognizing the quran as divine.
Say you visit a friend of yours, which you regards as a good example of submission. He has all or most of the qualities you think should be in a muslim. You look up to him as an example for yourself. Now, one day he tells you that he has found something in the quran which contradicts with his own logic and perception of god. He says to you that he cannot take the quran as gods word. However, you find that all of the qualities that you liked in him are still present in him. Would you continue to look up to him as a exemplary muslim?
Nadeem
-
peace
I don't see the Quran as a constitution. You always have to ENFORCE a constitution, while the Quran says there is no compulsion. The message of the quran is for all individuals. A good society is made up of good individuals. So if we were to follow the straight path, and encourage others by setting a good example, we will have a good society which is, in a way, being governed by the quran's message.So let's say, a person follows the fundamentals of the divine commandments, and is humble, honest and helping etc. However, he does not label nor recognize these three to be divine, but he calls them secular. Is he a muslim?
I would say yes, he is a muslim. But it's very complicated.
I think a person can be a submitter and a rejector at the same time.
For example, Adam is a 24 year old who never lies, never steals, never hurts anyone, helps his neighbors, eats and drinks right, everything he does is good except he has a gambling problem. And he refuses to admit that he does, or refuses to do anything about it.
Since he is rejecting the fact that he has a gambling problem, he is a "kafir." And he doesn't see that fact because he is serving his ego (shirk) instead of god (let's take god as all the attributes mentioned in the quran like "most merciful". And because he doesn't see that problem, he cannot fix it, and thus (like Adam in the quran) falls back down to earth. His gambling problem forces him to steal and hurt people. He no longer is a muslim.So I think the basis of every teaching in the quran is to recognize the truth. If we believe in false hood, we can never progress. Belief in falsehood comes from serving our desires/emotions/ego instead of the god. You could say shirk is the "orignal sin."
If Adam was to recognize his gambling problem, he would be able to fix it (salat leading to zakat) and then he would continue doing good works.
-
Peace be upon you,
The word muslim is not a title...The physical world is teh realm of effects, we are always in a state of BECOMING, so wecannot be locked into titles of behavior. If your actions of peaceful, you are described as "muslim", if your actions are not peaceful you are described as "rejecting", it is all relative to what you are doing in the PRESENT. Thats why we are told not to die except in a state of Peacefulness, if it were merely a title that would be too easy.