Khimar? Where is the proof?
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Hello,
Could someone please provide any proof that word "khimar" DOES NOT mean a headcovering?
salaam
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Hello,
Ok. So what I am getting at is that the word used in the Quran when Allah orders women to cover their breast with a "khimar" (well a sister of), DOES refer to headcovering? Thus covering your head is mandatory? Am I right or wrong?
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Peace
Well does the verse say to cover your head? I do not read that it does say that. It says to cover something, but not the head. If it was referring to a headcovering to cover this part of the body (not the head) then I suppose the purpose is to wear a headcovering, not for covering your head, but for covering this other thing . Covering your juyoob seems mandatory.
Joe
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The word "khimar" means "cover". ANY cover. A piece of cloth covering a table is a "khimar". The word "khamr" ( intoxicant) is derived from it, because it "covers" the mind, and obstructs thinking.
The Quran is simply ordering the women to put a cloth/shawl/or whatever... over their "juyyoub".
The scholars will tell you that "juyyoub" means "bosom". This is not necessarily so. The word "juyyob" actually has a general meaning "opening or ortifice". Therefore, the bosom is ONE OF the juyoubs, but not the only one. (When God told Moses to put his hand in his "jayb" and made it appear white...Where did Moses put his hand??
Could it be his armpit??? ) Hence the armpit is one of the "juyoubs" also.The mistake of scholars is that they take words/phrases in the Quran that have general meanings, and give them specific meanings.
The word "khamr" in the Quran can mean ANY kind of intoxicant. Not just alcoholic beverages, but also drugs , hasheesh,etc.. They all qualify as "hasheesh".
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Salaams pazazu, all,
All the ayah's to do with khamar
What do you think?
These 2 ayah's are translated just to see what Allah is saying to spend - it isn't money.
002.214
YUSUFALI Or do ye think that ye shall enter the Garden (of bliss) without such (trials) as came to those who passed away before you? they encountered suffering and adversity, and were so shaken in spirit that even the Messenger and those of faith who were with him cried "When (will come) the help of Allah?" Ah! Verily, the help of Allah is (always) near!
002.215
YUSUFALI They ask thee what they should spend (In charity). Say Whatever ye spend that is good is for parents and kindred and orphans and those in want and for wayfarers. And whatever ye do that is good, -Allah knoweth it well.New
2214
Or you think that you will enter Paradise while has not yet come to you the like (of) those who passed away before you befell them adversity and affliction and where (so) shaken that even said the Messenger and those who believed with him when (will) come help (of) Allah yes certainly help (of) is near.
2215
They ask you what they should go through what ever you go through of good for parents and kindred and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and whatever you do of good indeed Allah of it well informed.Now the wine ayah's.
002.217
YUSUFALI They ask thee concerning fighting in the Prohibited Month. Say "Fighting therein is a grave (offence); but graver is it in the sight of Allah to prevent access to the path of Allah, to deny Him, to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque, and drive out its members." Tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter. Nor will they cease fighting you until they turn you back from your faith if they can. And if any of you Turn back from their faith and die in unbelief, their works will bear no fruit in this life and in the Hereafter; they will be companions of the Fire and will abide therein.
002.218
YUSUFALI Those who believed and those who suffered exile and fought (and strove and struggled) in the path of Allah; - they have the hope of the Mercy of Allah And Allah is Oft-forgiving, most Merciful.
002.219
YUSUFALI They ask thee concerning wine and gambling. Say "In them is great sin, and some profit, for men; but the sin is greater than the profit." They ask thee how much they are to spend; Say "What is beyond your needs." Thus doth Allah Make clear to you His Signs In order that ye may consider-New
2217
???..persecution is greater more heinous then killing and not they will cease fighting you till they turn you back from your religion if they can and whoso turns away of you from his religion and dies while he is disbeliever such are those rendered vain their works????.
2218
Verily those who believed and those who have suffered and strove in Way Allah those hope the Mercy (of) Allah and Allah is forgiving Most Merciful.
2219
They ask you of covering(khamri) and concealing (of their beliefs) say in both sin great and benefits for men and their evil greater then their benefit and they ask you what- how much they can cover and conceal say that, not making yourself noticeable/ by withdrawing/ by turning away thus makes clear Allah ???
005.089
YUSUFALI Allah will not call you to account for what is futile in your oaths, but He will call you to account for your deliberate oaths for expiation, feed ten indigent persons, on a scale of the average for the food of your families; or clothe them; or give a slave his freedom. If that is beyond your means, fast for three days. That is the expiation for the oaths ye have sworn. But keep to your oaths. Thus doth Allah make clear to you His signs, that ye may be grateful?
005.090
YUSUFALI O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination, - of Satan's handwork eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper.
005.091
YUSUFALI Satan's plan is (but) to excite enmity and hatred between you, with intoxicants and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of Allah, and from prayer will ye not then abstain?New
589
(Will) not call you to account Allah what is futile in your oaths but He will call you to account for your earnestness in oaths ???.
590
O you who believe only covering(khamru) and concealing and predetermination and oracles an abomination handiwork (of) Satan so avoid it so that you may attain success.
591
Only wants Satan that he excites between you enmity and hatred with the covering (khamri) and the concealing hindering you from admonition/ remembrance of Allah and from salaat/ counsel/advice so will you (be of those) who abstain.1236(original)
SHAKIR And two youths entered the prison with him. One of them said I saw myself pressing wine. And the other said I saw myself carrying bread on my head, of which birds ate. Inform us of its interpretation; surely we see you to be of the doers of good.Who presses wine? Anywhere in the world.
New
1236
And there entered with him in the prison two young men said one of them verily I committed vice/was involved in scrape of/lost his confidence (khamraan) and said the other verily I was established/ remained/ stayed/ was confined to responsibility/ charged with a superior rank/ over/ more/ on high firm/ stable (and) fed ate/ partook sharp and quick witted/evil ones thereof inform us with the woe! Verily we think you of the good-doers.So obviously Joseph new their law and consequently after careful thought investigation told them what their outcome was going to be ? I believe.
1241(original)
SHAKIR O my two mates of the prison! As for one of you, he shall give his lord to drink wine; and as for the other, he shall be crucified, so that the birds shall eat from his head, the matter is decreed concerning which you inquired.New
1241
O two companions (of) the prison as for one of you he will serve his master in confidence (khamraan) and as for the other he will be made/ forced to change his position/manners from the high rank??.2431 (original)
SHAKIR And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or those whom their right hands possess, or the male servants not having need (of women), or the children who have not attained knowledge of what is hidden of women; and let them not strike their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may be known; and turn to Allah all of you, O believers! So that you may be successful.New
2431
And tell the believing women to restrain/lower their gaze and not to expose their honour/ grace/ pride and not cause division in their families except what is obvious of it, and let them cover (khumur) over their sincerity/ trustworthiness/ faithfulness/ heart/ bosoms and not to reveal their honour/ grace/ pride except to their family or their fathers or the fathers of their husbands ???.4715
the description of Paradise which have been promised those who fear is that in it are rivers of water not stagnant or stinking and rivers of milk not changes of which the taste and rivers-of wine/ unexpected/clandestine (khamrin) delicious to those who drink and rivers of honey clarified and for them therein every kind of fruit ???..The words arn't the same in the respective ayah's - i reckon.
God Bless all
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Salaams Fahad,
i can never be a follower of A mullah or anybody else like it - i like my God given Know how, like my above analysis.
And the caution is right here, God Bless.
009.031
They take their PRIESTS/ SHEIKHS and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One Allah there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him).Thanks.
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Salam Simple.
Salaams Fahad,
i can never be a follower of A mullah or anybody else like it
LOL!
Mr. Sheikh is not a mullah! He is one of the greatest scholars of the Quran.
And I was not asking anyone to become his follower. I was only asking to check out his two lectures.
- i like my God given Know how, like my above analysis.
Your God-given know how?! You mean your doctor-given?!
No, you like your dictionaries and your translation games!
And if your analysis and know-how is really God-given, how come you keep deleting your posts/analysis? Did you come to the "Allah=doctors" conclusion by using the same God-given know how?
And the caution is right here, God Bless.
009.031
They take their PRIESTS/ SHEIKHS and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One Allah there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him).LOL! Just because the scholar's name is "Sheikh", you put "SHEIKH" in your translation to prove your point against him?! LOL! Thats the limit!... Or is it?
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And Simple,
These are your 'sheikhs'
Hi savage,
Credentials are not really as important as what a person is saying is it? And just because some people have said something it doesn't become accurate or common knowledge. If we all cared for credentials so much, we might as well become sunni's. Peace
I don?t know about anybody else but a label to me doesn?t mean anything but something like having qualifications recognized do mean a lot.
i.e -
Dip Hyp, Dip Psy, ISCH, MGHSC, NLP Practitioner, RMN, RGN, BA (Hons)
These are known as credentials ? I think so. -
Salaams Fahad,
No you are mistaken - I give credit to people for having such qualifications, and no they don?t become sheikhs.
009.031
YUSUFALI They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One Allah there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him).009.034
YUSUFALI O ye who believe! There are indeed many among the priests and anchorites, who in Falsehood devour the substance of men and hinder (them) from the way of Allah. And there are those who bury gold and silver and spend it not in the way of Allah announce unto them a most grievous penalty-?WHO IN FALSEHOOD DEVOUR THE SUBSTANCE OF MEN?
YOU?RE FRIEND ?THE SHEIKH? LISTEN TO HIS VIDEO THE very first thing he goes for is your money ?chanda/zakaat/fitra e.t.c?
Then he starts to give you more of what you have been taught all your life?
The usual routine ? sorry that is a normal thing of any religion feeding you the sh-t they feed you from childhood thus giving you the satisfaction of having achieved something thus giving you falsehood upon falsehood.
I thank the almighty for opening my eyes so today I am not a follower of anybody but decide for myself according to the God given reason.
But you on the other hand haven?t reached this post God help people like you-following blindly, ideologies programmed into you from childhood.
It?s the blindness Allah tells about ? and believe me only He may show us the light.
May Allah show you some of it?
God Bless.
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And you say all the previous revelations came in Arabic - have your head examined.
For proof ask ten people walking on any street and see the result not pagans though.
May Allah show you some of his light too.
Salaams Fahad,All.
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Salam Simple.
Salaams Fahad,
No you are mistaken - I give credit to people for having such qualifications,
What if a person acquires the qualifications from Al-Azhar to interpret the Quran, will you credit them and give them priority.
...and no they don?t become sheikhs.
And people with the name "Sheikh" become sheikhs?! Answer this, ok?
009.031
YUSUFALI They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One Allah there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him).009.034
YUSUFALI O ye who believe! There are indeed many among the priests and anchorites, who in Falsehood devour the substance of men and hinder (them) from the way of Allah. And there are those who bury gold and silver and spend it not in the way of Allah announce unto them a most grievous penalty-?WHO IN FALSEHOOD DEVOUR THE SUBSTANCE OF MEN?
Answer this Simple. How is Mr. Sheikh devouring the substance of men. Does he not spend it in the way of Allah? Answer this.
YOU?RE FRIEND ?THE SHEIKH? LISTEN TO HIS VIDEO THE very first thing he goes for is your money ?chanda/zakaat/fitra e.t.c?
Firstly, Simple, you can't even get a simple thing into head! "Sheikh" is his name, NOT his title!
Secondly, he is only taking a charity from their money because he is commanded to do so(9103). What do you say?
And how does he misuse the money, tell me. Don't you ignore these questions.
Then he starts to give you more of what you have been taught all your life?
How do you know what I have been taught all my life?
The usual routine ? sorry that is a normal thing of any religion feeding you the sh-t they feed you from childhood thus giving you the satisfaction of having achieved something thus giving you falsehood upon falsehood.
Sh-t?! You call that sh-t? Then what would you call your "God-given know how" and "analysis"?!
You yourself consider your "god-given know how and analysis" to be sh-t. That is why delete them as soon as you would wipe your butt.
I thank the almighty for opening my eyes
You had the doctor operate on them?
It?s the blindness Allah tells about ? and believe me only He may show us the light.
May Allah show you some of it?
Your need is greater than mine.
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I thank the almighty for opening my eyes so today I am not a follower of anybody but decide for myself according to the God given reason.
Lets see what you decide according to...
And you say all the previous revelations came in Arabic - have your head examined.
For proof ask ten people walking on any street and see the result not pagans though.
rotfl rotfl rotfl
So THIS is how you decide? THIS is your method of interpreting the Quran? You ask ANY TEN people WALKING on ANY STREET?! LOL! You ask them which meaning from your 'Quranic Dictionary' fits better in the verses?! LOL!
Some "God-given reason", huh?
Let me tell you an easier method, Simple Throw a dice.
May Allah show you some of his light too.
Like I said, your need is greater than mine, because you have been asking for light from ten randomly picked people "from any street".
Salaams Fahad,All.
Salam and thanks for the laugh.
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What if a person acquires the qualifications from Al-Azhar to interpret the Quran, will you credit them and give them priority.
You must be joking!
You are saying someone who has graduated from a priesthood ? surely Allah is against it.
They say follow them or be doomed ? Allah said don?t follow the money grabbers.
036.020
YUSUFALI Then there came running, from the farthest part of the City, a man, saying, "O my people! Obey the messengers
036.021
YUSUFALI "Obey those who ask no reward of you, and who have themselves received Guidance.Ya ayyuha allatheena amanooinna katheeran mina al-ahbari waalrruhbanilaya/kuloona amwala alnnasi bialbatiliwayasuddoona AAan sabeeli Allahi waallatheenayaknizoona alththahaba waalfiddatawala yunfiqoonaha fee sabeeli Allahifabashshirhum biAAathabin aleemin
O ye who believe! there are indeed many among the priests and anchorites, who in Falsehood devour the substance of men and hinder (them) from the way of Allah. And there are those who bury gold and silver and spend it not in the way of Allah announce unto them a most grievous penalty-
Answer this Simple. How is Mr. Sheikh devouring the substance of men. Does he not spend it in the way of Allah? Answer this.
Where do they get their money from for surviving/ living .
Firstly, Simple, you can't even get a simple thing into head! "Sheikh" is his name, NOT his title!
Name or a title ,it doesn?t matter a bit ? its their action/amal you need to look at.
Secondly, he is only taking a charity from their money because he is commanded to do so(9103). What do you say?
Check the ayah again its about the prophet not any sheikh, sorry.
And how does he misuse the money, tell me. Don't you ignore these questions.
They make businesses for their incomes to survive the easy taking the route. Feed people what they already believe and that is it.
How do you know what I have been taught all my life?
You aren?t analyzing the quran but authenticating what people believe already ? and even making the lingo Godly ? But all lingo?s are Godly that bring out the Godliness in us whether it is English or some other.
You yourself consider your "god-given know how and analysis" to be sh-t. That is why delete them as soon as you would wipe your butt.
At least I don?t leave it to be wiped by sheikhs like you do.
Thank you.
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You must be joking!
I am simply asking.
You are saying someone who has graduated from a priesthood ?
He would be "qualified. An "expert". He should get credit from you.
surely Allah is against it.
He is not against your NLP experts?
They say follow them or be doomed ? Allah said don?t follow the money grabbers.
036.020
YUSUFALI Then there came running, from the farthest part of the City, a man, saying, "O my people! Obey the messengers
036.021
YUSUFALI "Obey those who ask no reward of you, and who have themselves received Guidance.No money grabbing mentioned in this verse.
Ya ayyuha allatheena amanooinna katheeran mina al-ahbari waalrruhbanilaya/kuloona amwala alnnasi bialbatiliwayasuddoona AAan sabeeli Allahi waallatheenayaknizoona alththahaba waalfiddatawala yunfiqoonaha fee sabeeli Allahifabashshirhum biAAathabin aleemin
O ye who believe! there are indeed many among the priests and anchorites, who in Falsehood devour the substance of men and hinder (them) from the way of Allah. And there are those who bury gold and silver and spend it not in the way of Allah announce unto them a most grievous penalty-
The IIPC does spend in the way of Allah.
Where do they get their money from for surviving/ living .
They give part of the charities received to the needy.
Name or a title ,it doesn?t matter a bit ? its their action/amal you need to look at.
What are the actions of a sheikh?
Secondly, he is only taking a charity from their money because he is commanded to do so(9103). What do you say?
Check the ayah again its about the prophet not any sheikh, sorry.
You said "sheikh" again, LOL! You don't know the difference between title and name. You should start using some english dictionaries as well.
And the verse is about the messenger, so unlike you, we have a beautiful pattern in the messenger of Allah. So we should follow it. That is what Mr. Sheikh is trying to do.
They make businesses for their incomes to survive the easy taking the route.
No. They help the needy survive with it. One of their main objectives is "to provide assistance to the relatives, orphans, needy, poor who has migrated and restricted in the way of Allah".
You never know what you are talking about.
Feed people what they already believe and that is it.
Thats just what you do.
And why don't you refute his understanding if you are so confident.
You aren?t analyzing the quran but authenticating what people believe already ? and even making the lingo Godly ? But all lingo?s are Godly that bring out the Godliness in us whether it is English or some other.
Is that why you twice ran away from that "language" debate?
At least I don?t leave it to be wiped by sheikhs like you do.
Oh yeah, you've got ten people, randomly picked from any street, to wipe it for you, right?
Thank you.
You are most welcome.
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Salaams Fahad,
Honestly
the most authentic - stupidust argument i have ever come accross on free minds is your argument about your arabic.
Brother if you think you have it - then lets strt the ball rolling and we will see who will run and who proves what is what.
the language report.
you throw the ball - lets see your argument with a couple of your ayah's.
Here or on the language topic - your pick.
Thanks.
Salaams.
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Salaams Fahad,
Honestly
the most authentic - stupidust argument i have ever come accross on free minds is your argument about your arabic.
Brother if you think you have it - then lets strt the ball rolling and we will see who will run and who proves what is what.
the language report.
you throw the ball - lets see your argument with a couple of your ayah's.
Here or on the language topic - your pick.
Thanks.
Salaams.
Here http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7068.msg106714#msg106714
And what else had you been doing so far on that thread?
