Oh God
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Why do you think He is not addressed directly by His name?
He is "Allah" to the believers in Him, "Rab" to all the creation, whether they believe in Him or not.
This is the extent of His generosity You do not have to believe in Him, or even abide by His system, in order to ask Him or call upon Him
"His mercy contains evrything".
This is my understanding -
Peace Elke, all,
no explanation but another fact
allah akbar is not in the quran either
We should be careful before calling something a fact.
I used to believe that too and had some heated debates that according to al-qur'aan "akbar" is not the name/attribute of Allah but was proved wrong !!
The name/attribute "akbar" is in al-qur'aan as a name/attribute of Allah !!
Prophet Abraham called Allah by the name/attribute "akbar" and Allah did not correct him, so "akbar" must be one of the names/attributes of Allah !!
678 So when he saw the sun rising, he said "This is my Lord, this is akbar." But when it disappeared he said "My people, I am innocent of that which you have set up."
Now one might say that he Abraham was calling the sun "akbar" but grammatically that is not so !!
If he was calling the sun "akbar" then the arabic phrase should have been "haazihi akbar" (this is akbar - feminine) as al-shams/the sun is a FEMININE word in arabic and for a feminine word the word "haazihi" is used. The actual arabic phrase in 678, however, is "haaza akbar" (this is akbar - masculine) and "haaza" is used only for masculine words, and thus could not have been referring to the sun !!!
Thus obviously "haaza" is referring to Allah in 678, and by saying "haaza akbar", Abraham was referring to Allah as "akbar", because the word "Allah" in arabic is a masculine word. He was mistakenly thinking that the sun was Allah, BUT WAS STILL REFERRING TO ALLAH AS AKBAR (because of the word "haaza" before it) !!
Allah subsequently did not correct Abraham's usage of "akbar" for Him, which proves that according to al-qur'aan "akbar" is one of Allah's names/attributes.
Hence one can say "Allah akbar" or "Allah al-kabeer" and both would be right according to al-qur'aan.
Peace
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Peace tanveer
i never said one shouldn't say it ... just said the expression "allah akbar" as such is not in quran although it is universally used nowadays...to establish a parallel with "ya allah"
i don't see our god as a kind of accountant verifying every little word we might use. it's what's in our heart that counts, our real intentions
lk
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Peace Elke, all,
i don't see our god as a kind of accountant verifying every little word we might use. it's what's in our heart that counts, our real intentions
I agree but the matter of names of Allah is not trivial and we have to be very careful
7180 And to God belong the beautiful names, so call Him by them; and ignore those who blaspheme in His names. They will be punished for what they used to do.
5323 These are but names that you made up, you and your forefathers. God never authorized such. They only follow conjecture, and personal desire, while the guidance has come to them from their Lord.
771 He said "An affliction and wrath shall befall you from your Lord. Do you argue with me over names which you and your fathers have created with no authority being sent down by God? Wait then, and I will wait with you."
We should not use any name for Allah that has not been authorized by Him.
Peace
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Salaam Tanveer
678 So when he saw the sun rising, he said "This is my lord, this is akbar." But when it disappeared he said "My people, I am innocent of that which you have set up."
When Ibrahim said this is "akbar bigger", he was not referring to God, nor was he referring to the sun", but to " this is my lord, aka the sun". That's why hatha "this is my lord" was in the masculine. Hence, the correction of the capital L in "This is my lord".
Otherwise, why would he point to the sun and say This is my Lord (i.e Allah)?
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Peace warner,
O Lord "ya rab" is used to address Allah in al-qur'aan and as "rab/Lord" in that context refers to Allah, it follows that "ya allah" can be used to address Allah too.
2530 And the messenger said "O Lord (ya rab), my people have deserted this Quran."
4388 And it will be said "O Lord (ya rab), these are a people who do not believe."
Peace
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Peace Samia,
Otherwise, why would he point to the sun and say This is my Lord (i.e Allah)?
Because he thought that the sun was Allah.
When Ibrahim said this is "akbar bigger", he was not referring to God, nor was he referring to the sun", but to " this is my lord, aka the sun".
Abraham could not have used "haaza rabbee" for the sun as "al-shams" is a feminine word. If by "rabbee" he meant the sun then it should have been "haazihee rabbee". Thus both "rabbee" and "akbar" in that phrase refer to Allah and not to the sun.
Tanveer
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Salaam Tanweer
Abraham could not have used "haaza rabbee" for the sun as "al-shams" is a feminine word. If by "rabbee" he meant the sun then it should have been "haazihee rabbee". Thus both "rabbee" and "akbar" in that phrase refer to Allah and not to the sun.
Hatha akbar, means this lord (the sun) is bigger than the previous candidates for a lord (the star and the moon).
Ibrahim came to God by elimination eliminating the "lords" that come and disappear. he was not searching for God in the stars and planets.
676 "When the night covered him with darkness, he saw a star. He said This is my lord. But when it set, he said I do not like those who set.
677 When he saw the moon rising up he said This is my lord. But when it set, he said Unless my lord guides me, I shall surely be among the people who went astray.
678 When he saw the sun rising up, he said This is my lord. This is greater. But when it set, he said O my people! I am innocent of what you take as partners.
679 I have turned my face towards Him who created the heavens and the earth.... -
Peace Samia,
Hatha akbar, means this lord (the sun) is bigger than the previous candidates for a lord (the star and the moon).
You have evaded my point again. This lord CANNOT be referring to the sun because al-shams is a feminine word and if it was referring to the sun it should have been "haazihee rabbee" and not "haaza rabbee". Thus "rabbee" and "akbar" in 678 both refer to Allah and not the sun.
Peace
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Peace Samia,
Hatha akbar, means this lord (the sun) is bigger than the previous candidates for a lord (the star and the moon).
Another point is that the perceived diameter of the Sun and the Moon are the same for a viewer from Earth because of the much greater distance of the Sun than the Moon from Earth. If your false understanding is correct then there is a huge contradiction in al-qur'aan how can Ibrahim perceive the Sun to be bigger than the Moon ??
Please see the following link from Wikipedia
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angular_diameter
According to the article referenced at the above link, the Sun's angular diameter (perceived size) as seen from Earth is 30' and that of the Moon is 29-33', thus the apparent size of the Moon as seen from the Earth COULD BE SOMETIMES BIGGER THAN THE SUN.
Peace
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peace all,
If you actually look at the way "names" of God are stated in 'al quran', you will not find many such as 678.
Secondly, Abraham's line of thinking was proven incorrect, in 678, thus its questionable whether one should take it as a fact that is a "name" of God.
And lastly, by saying the sun is greater could be referencing its brightness/beauty/function, not just size.
Wakas
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Salaam Tanweer
You have evaded my point again.
No, I did not evade it, but I thought the answer was deductible from my reply The word "lord" is masculine, or at least impersonal, treated as masculine as well.
Another point is that the perceived diameter of the Sun and the Moon are the same for a viewer from Earth
I think it's the general assumption that the sun is bigger than the moon, because you just see a huge ball of light and can't see the limits of the sun itself, so it looks bigger
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Peace warner,
O Lord "ya rab" is used to address Allah in al-qur'aan and as "rab/Lord" in that context refers to Allah, it follows that "ya allah" can be used to address Allah too.
2530 And the messenger said "O Lord (ya rab), my people have deserted this Quran."
4388 And it will be said "O Lord (ya rab), these are a people who do not believe."
Peace
Peace
This is not a sound line of argument.
My point is not a single place in the Quraan (If I am not mistaken) He is addressed directly by His name/s by Man or Malaika.
I was intrigued by this fact. Samias? explanation can be one of the reasons.
Is Allah addressed as Oh/Ya/Ar Rahman or anything similar in the Quraan ?
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Peace Samia, Wakas, all,
No, I did not evade it, but I thought the answer was deductible from my reply The word "lord" is masculine, or at least impersonal, treated as masculine as well.
Oops, you evaded it again !
Here it is again "al-shams" is a feminine word and if Ibrahim was referring to the sun by "lord" he should have said "haazihee rabbee" and not "haaza rabbee". That is clear proof that when he said "haaza rabbee" he meant Allah and not the sun. Thus "rabbee" and "akbar" in 678 both refer to ALLAH NOT THE SUN.
Secondly, Abraham's line of thinking was proven incorrect, in 678, thus its questionable whether one should take it as a fact that is a "name" of God.
Abraham's line of thinking was proven incorrect, but Allah did not correct his usage of "akbar" for Him.
And lastly, by saying the sun is greater could be referencing its brightness/beauty/function, not just size.
That is a moot point anyway because by "haaza rabbee" and THEREFORE by "haaza akbar", Abraham was not referencing the sun but Allah. If Abraham was referring to the sun he would have used "haazihee rabbee". Simple Arabic grammatical fact !
Peace
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Peace warner,
This is not a sound line of argument.
Why not ?
"Rab" is one of the attributes of Allah and where "rab" is referencing Allah, if "ya" is used before it, it means one can put "ya" before any other name of Allah too. Simple common sense !
Peace
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Peace Tanveer
Rab is used in the Quraan to refer to other than Allah.
Is Allah used to refer to anyone else other than Him? Even if someone can call anyone or anything as Allah will it be the truth. (I am not sure about the usage of the word in the Quraan, so please check)
Do you think no one put a ya in front of Allah in the Quraan because they lack common sense?
Peace Samia
Is Ya Allah and Allahumma same?
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Peace Tanveer,
I just saw found this thread today, from a link you placed on another one. I haven't gone through all the posts, so I'm hoping I'm not repeating what others have said.
I disagree with the argument that God is 'bigger'/akbar is mentioned in quran, as per your explanation from the verse. Here's the verse and preceding verses in question;
- And it is such that We showed Abraham the kingdom of heavens and Earth, so that he will be of those who have certainty.
- When the night covered him, he saw a planet, and he said ?This is my Lord.? But when it disappeared he said ?I do not like those that disappear.?
- So when he saw the moon rising, he said ?This is my Lord.? But when it disappeared he said ?If my Lord will not guide me, then I will be amongst the wicked people!?
- So when he saw the sun rising, he said ?This is my Lord, this is bigger.? But when it disappeared he said ?My people, I am innocent of that which you have set up.?
The 'bigger' in this case, IMHO, is referencing the the sun. Yes, I realize you mentioned the word used was not feminine and all that, but look at the progress in which Abraham is searching. First he notices a planet or a star, according to our (human) eye sight, that's the smallest spot in the sky. Then after it dissappeared, he corrects himself that that cannot be his Lord. Next he sees the glorious moon rising. It's bigger than the planet he saw before and he's convinced this must be it! When it sets, he corrects himself and keeps on searching. Lastly he notices the sun rising, the sun is bigger isn't it... hence the mention Now hold on, before you jump on me!... You say that God did not correct him on that phrase and hence that must be a proper description.
Prophet Abraham called Allah by the name/attribute "akbar" and Allah did not correct him, so "akbar" must be one of the names/attributes of Allah !!
This reasoning doesn't work in this instance, because he called the Sun his Lord, no correction there. Abraham did not call ALLAH by that name. He called his the sun that believing it is his Lord. Remember, by then he had not 'met' his Lord yet.Now I'm not qualified, or even going to begin to argue gramma here, but I'm not convinced by that reasoning that the phrase Allahu Akbar exists, according to quran.
Rab is used in the Quraan to refer to other than Allah.
Is Allah used to refer to anyone else other than Him? Even if someone can call anyone or anything as Allah will it be the truth. (I am not sure about the usage of the word in the Quraan, so please check)
I'm in agreement with warner in this point.Peace
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Hello All
The issue is not that the words "Allah Akbar" does not exit in the Quran, the issue is , there is nothing wrong in saying "Allah Akabr" because Ibrahim was refering to God as such using the word Haza, if we look at 678 again we see that all words referring to the sun were feminine "Bazighah" and "Afalat", Except "Haza" which clearly indicate that Ibrahim was referring to the masculine God not to the sun , hence the word Akbar was refrring to God, hence there is nothing wrong in saying it
Akbar is not a name to Allah
