Oh God
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Salaam Tanweer
You have evaded my point again.
No, I did not evade it, but I thought the answer was deductible from my reply The word "lord" is masculine, or at least impersonal, treated as masculine as well.
Another point is that the perceived diameter of the Sun and the Moon are the same for a viewer from Earth
I think it's the general assumption that the sun is bigger than the moon, because you just see a huge ball of light and can't see the limits of the sun itself, so it looks bigger
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Peace warner,
O Lord "ya rab" is used to address Allah in al-qur'aan and as "rab/Lord" in that context refers to Allah, it follows that "ya allah" can be used to address Allah too.
2530 And the messenger said "O Lord (ya rab), my people have deserted this Quran."
4388 And it will be said "O Lord (ya rab), these are a people who do not believe."
Peace
Peace
This is not a sound line of argument.
My point is not a single place in the Quraan (If I am not mistaken) He is addressed directly by His name/s by Man or Malaika.
I was intrigued by this fact. Samias? explanation can be one of the reasons.
Is Allah addressed as Oh/Ya/Ar Rahman or anything similar in the Quraan ?
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Peace Samia, Wakas, all,
No, I did not evade it, but I thought the answer was deductible from my reply The word "lord" is masculine, or at least impersonal, treated as masculine as well.
Oops, you evaded it again !
Here it is again "al-shams" is a feminine word and if Ibrahim was referring to the sun by "lord" he should have said "haazihee rabbee" and not "haaza rabbee". That is clear proof that when he said "haaza rabbee" he meant Allah and not the sun. Thus "rabbee" and "akbar" in 678 both refer to ALLAH NOT THE SUN.
Secondly, Abraham's line of thinking was proven incorrect, in 678, thus its questionable whether one should take it as a fact that is a "name" of God.
Abraham's line of thinking was proven incorrect, but Allah did not correct his usage of "akbar" for Him.
And lastly, by saying the sun is greater could be referencing its brightness/beauty/function, not just size.
That is a moot point anyway because by "haaza rabbee" and THEREFORE by "haaza akbar", Abraham was not referencing the sun but Allah. If Abraham was referring to the sun he would have used "haazihee rabbee". Simple Arabic grammatical fact !
Peace
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Peace warner,
This is not a sound line of argument.
Why not ?
"Rab" is one of the attributes of Allah and where "rab" is referencing Allah, if "ya" is used before it, it means one can put "ya" before any other name of Allah too. Simple common sense !
Peace
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Peace Tanveer
Rab is used in the Quraan to refer to other than Allah.
Is Allah used to refer to anyone else other than Him? Even if someone can call anyone or anything as Allah will it be the truth. (I am not sure about the usage of the word in the Quraan, so please check)
Do you think no one put a ya in front of Allah in the Quraan because they lack common sense?
Peace Samia
Is Ya Allah and Allahumma same?
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Peace Tanveer,
I just saw found this thread today, from a link you placed on another one. I haven't gone through all the posts, so I'm hoping I'm not repeating what others have said.
I disagree with the argument that God is 'bigger'/akbar is mentioned in quran, as per your explanation from the verse. Here's the verse and preceding verses in question;
- And it is such that We showed Abraham the kingdom of heavens and Earth, so that he will be of those who have certainty.
- When the night covered him, he saw a planet, and he said ?This is my Lord.? But when it disappeared he said ?I do not like those that disappear.?
- So when he saw the moon rising, he said ?This is my Lord.? But when it disappeared he said ?If my Lord will not guide me, then I will be amongst the wicked people!?
- So when he saw the sun rising, he said ?This is my Lord, this is bigger.? But when it disappeared he said ?My people, I am innocent of that which you have set up.?
The 'bigger' in this case, IMHO, is referencing the the sun. Yes, I realize you mentioned the word used was not feminine and all that, but look at the progress in which Abraham is searching. First he notices a planet or a star, according to our (human) eye sight, that's the smallest spot in the sky. Then after it dissappeared, he corrects himself that that cannot be his Lord. Next he sees the glorious moon rising. It's bigger than the planet he saw before and he's convinced this must be it! When it sets, he corrects himself and keeps on searching. Lastly he notices the sun rising, the sun is bigger isn't it... hence the mention Now hold on, before you jump on me!... You say that God did not correct him on that phrase and hence that must be a proper description.
Prophet Abraham called Allah by the name/attribute "akbar" and Allah did not correct him, so "akbar" must be one of the names/attributes of Allah !!
This reasoning doesn't work in this instance, because he called the Sun his Lord, no correction there. Abraham did not call ALLAH by that name. He called his the sun that believing it is his Lord. Remember, by then he had not 'met' his Lord yet.Now I'm not qualified, or even going to begin to argue gramma here, but I'm not convinced by that reasoning that the phrase Allahu Akbar exists, according to quran.
Rab is used in the Quraan to refer to other than Allah.
Is Allah used to refer to anyone else other than Him? Even if someone can call anyone or anything as Allah will it be the truth. (I am not sure about the usage of the word in the Quraan, so please check)
I'm in agreement with warner in this point.Peace
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Hello All
The issue is not that the words "Allah Akbar" does not exit in the Quran, the issue is , there is nothing wrong in saying "Allah Akabr" because Ibrahim was refering to God as such using the word Haza, if we look at 678 again we see that all words referring to the sun were feminine "Bazighah" and "Afalat", Except "Haza" which clearly indicate that Ibrahim was referring to the masculine God not to the sun , hence the word Akbar was refrring to God, hence there is nothing wrong in saying it
Akbar is not a name to Allah
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Peace AB,
Hello All
The issue is not that the words "Allah Akbar" does not exit in the Quran, the issue is , there is nothing wrong in saying "Allah Akabr" because Ibrahim was refering to God as such using the word Haza, if we look at 678 again we see that all words referring to the sun were feminine "Bazighah" and "Afalat", Except "Haza" which clearly indicate that Ibrahim was referring to the masculine God not to the sun , hence the word Akbar was refrring to God, hence there is nothing wrong in saying it
Akbar is not a name to Allah
I like your explanation. I have a question, is there any point where God is refered to in the feminine, in quran.
Thanks.
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Peace AB,I like your explanation. I have a question, is there any point where God is refered to in the feminine, in quran.
Thanks.
Salam zanje
I'm not sure if Allah referred to Himself in feminie format in the Quran, however if He does, then I have no propblem in accepting that. as far as I know that He never did, therefore i take it that it is more proper to refer to Him as masculine, referring to Him as masculine does not mean that God is as such, in fact God has no gender, therefore referring to Him as feminine won't make Him a female,
Allah knows best
Salam
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Peace AB,
The reason I asked that question is because you mentioned Abraham uses masculine for God even though when pointing to the sun. I'm not asking if God refers to himself in the feminine. I'm asking if ANYONE (especially Abraham) referred to God in feminine, even before knowing the One and true God. I hope I'm being clear.
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Peace AB,
The reason I asked that question is because you mentioned Abraham uses masculine for God even though when pointing to the sun. I'm not asking if God refers to himself in the feminine. I'm asking if ANYONE (especially Abraham) referred to God in feminine, even before knowing the One and true God. I hope I'm being clear.
Peace mate
As we know that Allah gave Ibrahim maturity at young age, also Ibrahim is a prophet hence he has the greatest knwledge about Allah, he even recognised Him wothout any Quran, therefore I believe Ibrahim knew that it is more proper to refer to Him as masculine, that does not mean God is male because He has no Gender
regarding your question "If ANYONE (especually Ibrahim) referred to God in feminine", I believe we can't group Ibrahim with ANYONE, however if you mean by your question about ANYONE from the prophets then I really don't know anything relates to God said by the prophets outside the Quran, and in the Quran I believe that all prophets referred to Him in masculine as Allah informed us
it is also worth noting that the word itself "Allah" or "Rab" is masculine, unlike the feminine word "Malaika" and as you know the Malaika are no females as Allah denied it in the Quran, hence the feminine and masculine thingy may be related to the word itself and not the physical entity the word is referring to
Allah knows best
Salam