Praying a Christian Prayer
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Here is the jewish Kadish, first three lines.
Glorified and sanctified be God's great name throughout the world which He has created according to His will.
May He establish His kingdom in your lifetime and during your days, and within the life of the entire House of Israel, speedily and soon; and say, Amen.plagiarism without a doubt. But why not? That how the hebrews got it to begin with.
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Peace
ohhh i get it now !
lol i guess they did bite it off of the babylonians ...
i don't think the prayer is holy per se but it just sounds like good things to pray for and keep in mind ... but that's freaky that it got its roots from paganism ... but you say the babylonians may have been monotheists so i don't know ...
interesting stuff ! thanks for the info
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I think the main point im trying to make is this.
I can prove that for 6000 years, people have been chanting these hymns. They have changed along the way, and each groups have fitted them to what needs they had, or the narration changed over time. For 6000 years i can prove that our history has been one endless cycle of "anarchism->monarchism->democracism->despotism->fascism" all while we have been singing away our songs and hymns to the lord. Im sorry to say this, but it would seem to me based on 6000 years of utter failure to be humans, that our good Lord is NOT impressed with our poetry at all.
While these hymns give each of us an instant shot of "feel rightious", it would seem that they serve us more than God. And this is not neccerily a postive thing mind you.
All of us look at sunnis pracsis with some scepsis because the rituals and hymns seems to have a tendency of getting in the way of actually being rightious. If you sing or bow or dance or whatever some times a day, you feel good. but what is it excactly that you have done for God in this? Did his creation suddenly start to behave more?
Did you take a standpoint against evil, vile and filth with all your mind,body and soul, nomatter the consequences or did you just utter some words that made you feel that everything will be allright?Another important point is that the very people who brought with them from the past these hymns are EVIL DOERS! their organisations are but craddles of filth that has infected the world for far to long allready. The lords prayer wasnt excactly spread to the people through love, care and understanding.
Im not trying to be nagative or tell you what to do. im trying to tell you that right now you are doing what people have done for the last 6000 years. and im asking you, what good does it do us?
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Peace Magi,
A prayer is not an action. It is a reaction. otherwise it is not a prayer!
The action comes first. First the inside should be impressed then the reaction comes as exprerssion. as prayer.
Impression of heart is the purpose and expression is its form.
Remember that form can never create a function or purpose. but a purpose will create its suitable form.
words in a prayer are forms.movement of body is just form. They start functioning once first there is a purpse. An intention. A motion from within.
Once that motion arises from inside, then it needs a form to manifest. that form can be chanting, dancing, prostrating, singing... The impression then is manifested from within. It starts to imprint inside, A pattern start taking shape. A program is written. and in life that pattern will start to transpire.
Yes indeed thousands of years people repeated the forms and they were not guided. Human is attracted to FORMS. TO IDOLS.
Guidance comes as soon as we get straight from inside.
peace
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Alpha it sounds good, but how do you figure that can happen with chaos around us as is? If youre depressed, it will become harder to ever streighten up your head if you are in a messy place. Very few people are not like this.
If we shape our suroundings peacefully, we will become so along with it in the process. If our feet does not follow the intention, the intetion has no value and the spoken are mere words.Once that motion arises from inside, then it needs a form to manifest. that form can be chanting, dancing, prostrating, singing...
but more than anything it should manifest in change. And neither of the expressions you mention will bring that about. On the contrary, it is just doing the same thing as they did back then. Why will we not learn?
Here in our chaotic world we have jews praying to God, muslims are praying to God, christians, hindus, some buddhist are praying to God. And still all is in chaos. All these good people are trying to manifest their innermost in these ways, and still chaos grows and multiplies. Are we praying to the wrong god? or maybe prayer is something else entirely than what we have been told, and has reasoned our way to, based on what we know.
The way i see it, all we are doing, are paying lipservice to The Almighty- And i am no different, far from. I am wise in the light of my own shortcommings. Or when i speak of chaos and disorder, i speak as an expert ;D
We all have a good intend to uphold God, and we say so, and we debate how to. But in reality what are we doing, when we debate the words to be spoken ,as opposed to how to bring about the change so desperately needed.We talk the talk and walk backwards the other way along with the idolworshippers we deny being part of.
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a simple metaphor is a father and his child. If the child keeps doing bad, or running with the bad kids, and keep comming home saying that he will change and promise, and cry and have all the good intentions. At some point the dad is still going to say "show me". Dont tell me you want to bring change about, bring the change about and i will come help you when youve started out.
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Peace Magi,
Maybe you don?t realize.
You are in prayer yourself.
You reactions to my post is a prayer.
You see the shortcomings (humbleness) and you point out to the ideal that you miss. That is a prayer, you do not have to sing!We are born into this chaos for a purpose. One should not resent the chaos in the wish for the comfort zone. This chaos is our ladder to evolve. The spiritual awareness happens in de miidst of this chaos. Do what you can and change what you can and the rest is trusted to the creator.
The people went strayed not because they prayed. they were sent stray because of what they had in their hearts! It is that simple.
There is no ritual whatsoever that can guide.
There is no scripture whatsoever that can guide.
Guidance has only one formula! Getting straight from inside! The rest will follow of its own akkord!prayer is a tool
Meditation is a tool
Fasting is a toolAnd all useless till one starts the spiritual journey.
peace,
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I agree with what you say with some reservations, and want to add to this
The people went strayed not because they prayed. they were sent stray because of what they had in their hearts! It is that simple.
while this is obvious. it is altso obvious that the very prayer suggested, is linked to a pure idolworshipping ideology with many cruel offsprings. If you noticed the hymns i posted, one of them is strongly suggested to have been chanted at UR. For people interrested in relegious history-- if you can speak of such a thing--, this is where Abraham was born. The implications of this are, that one in praise to God ,would sing a variation of the very hymn that the idolworshippers who wanted to stone Abraham was offering up to their god.
So whatever intention you have, it is still a mockery afaic to offer it to God.
Altso, in the light of the example that our prophets of old have given us. what are the first thing they did when they realised the truth sorrounding them? Im not talking about their relationship with God, because that is allready established, that is why they now see nothing but filth. Nomatter how hard they look, all they can see is vile and evil. Then what do they do? Do they stay around trying to fix things up, and go along to get along hoping that some supernatural event will come and take place, or it all just levels out occationally? No they ran so fast they nearly fell in their beards to get away from it. Catch their breath, get hold of their thougts and look at it all from the outside, and then took actions.
This is what i hear most advocate. Why are noone advocating following their example? Do we really need to see people being dragged away to camps before we "get it"? That didnt wake up Germany. How bad does it have to get, before we follow the example they set for us?
Yes, life is one long prayer, and you can make it a good one. but it requires you take certain actions that most are totally unwilling to take, and want to replace with "feel good" remedy.
We are born into this chaos for a purpose. One should not resent the chaos in the wish for the comfort zone. This chaos is our ladder to evolve. The spiritual awareness happens in de miidst of this chaos. Do what you can and change what you can and the rest is trusted to the creator.
I belive this to be the greatest pitfall of thinking in the world. Social darwinism runs at the core of this statement. I on the other hand believe that nothing evil can teach us, good cannot teach us better. When i say chaos i dont mean Gods cosmic machinery, that our limited minds percieve as chaos, but the chaos created by us. Therefor i belive that our purpose for being here is chosing not chaos, and the only way to chose not chaos, is to blankly refuse to corporate with it in any way. No need to be aggresive, that is what chaos does. But insist on your right not to partake in it, nomatter the benefits it offers. be your best and be personal and upfront with The Allmighty in whatever way works for you best, i agree with this, but dont offer up the hymns chaos invented to our creator.
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Peace Magi,
The subject of discussion is a bit changing. But it is worth while to take a bite of it.
The Pairs of Opposites exist everywhere. Where you find one thing you find its opposite-the two poles.
Following link sketches in more details my understanding of this point
http//www.gnostic.org/kybalionhtm/kybalion10.htmWe will talk on the subjects more later.
peace,
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The page you link to embodies the teachings as followed by masons, i have read 3 pages. Im not trying to dis information you are inspired by. Try and take a look at this.
The great Fourth Hermetic Principle-the Principle of Polarity-embodies the truth that all manifested things have "two sides"; "two aspects"; "two poles"; a "pair of opposites," with manifold degrees between the two extremes.
As demonstrated in
http//www.robinsfyi.com/holidays/christmas/images/pateightpointstar.gif
http//www.period-homes.com/article/IMAGES/Keat10.jpg
http//www.antennaballworld.com/bin/img/product/0080065_antenna_topper_ying_yang_ball_symbol_yin_yan.jpg
http//images.worldofstock.com/slides/PFR1403.jpg
http//www.islam-guide.com/ch3-16-5-img1.jpg
http//www.utexas.edu/student/utlc/lrnres/mstc/image475.gif
Yes everyone has one. And these are some very old, and very silly ideas that refuse to go away because they on the surface of it sounds so reasonable. Just like the hymns of old. God, the devil, yang/yang, good/evil. But if God is all encompassing, omnipresent, then there only is good. only order. Except for the creation that can chose to be chaos or order itself. Look around you. God does not make chaos. God creates order. It is people who themself create chaos, that insisit it is part of Gods work, and make up fancy names for it to excuse themself. But it is the work of them, it is their idea that it is so. They argue that without chaos, how can we know order. It is very easy due to the nature of order. What i think they argue is, how can you appreciate running and skateboarding if you never had your legs broken at the knee?. How can you appreciate life if you have never been killed?
Evidence speaks for itself. Our world still spin on its axis, no chaos there. When we dont mess up nature, we dont find any chaos there either. Only an order, that at some times can be dangerous to us though. If God created chaos, we wouldnt even be here, is that evidence enough?
And the philosophical evidence is that. If i am opposed to fighting as a solution, my opposite would be someone who belives fighting is a solution. Someone who belives it is a solution sometimes, still belive it is a solution. There are no degrees to a lot of questions. And me and my opposite in this regard are not thinking anything remotely alike.
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Peace Magi,
Let's keep elightening each other as we are! I love a good and peaceful dialogue!
I contemplate this from the other side?
Why God keeps creating humans into this chaos which is made by previouse humans? Is this chaos NOT the same field which is used to TEST us and develop us?
Is it not so, that this chaos has triggerd the wish in Magi to create order and is it not the fight against the chaos that defines and develops that wish further?peace,
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yes this is very enjoyable )
Ofcourse it is the chaos that wants to make me leave it behind to die out. But if i had order, i wouldnt create chaos just to make sure i appreciate it. I dont belive God puts us into chaos. But that it is so because we litterally live in the sins of our fathers. our whole construct is by large their ideas and systems we still abide by. Were told they were idiots, and we belive to think differently than they did. But in reality, do we?
Do we do something they did not do? We use the symbols they used, and they too had several even good sounding reasons for them, we use the hymns they used, we try to mold our system into the systems they had, or try to fix the remains of the system they used. all while still participating in it. We uphold the same ideas that they had about a duality when God tells us he is ONE, and we even uphold a lot of their traditions and festivals still. I wouldnt be the least surrpriced if we could go back in time and find a society working excactly like our own, with small groups each talking about how vile it is, and how their ancesters where fools, but they are the ones who has it right. If that is the case, then why do we in fact NOT evolve? And keep running on this historical rat wheel, if we have it so figured out?
The only reason i can think of is because somewhere we keep doing all their errors over and over, and just like them. We dont realise that it is so.
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Peace
Is it prohibited to pray a prayer that is from a different religion but with a twist to make it ok?
I've been in Catholic school all my life and there are many prayers I memorized just out of saying it and hearing it day in and day out.
One that I don't see a problem with (but I need to see what others think) is
Our Father (i change this word to just Lord) who art in heaven
Hallowed be Thy Name
Thy kingdom come,
Thy Will be done
On earth as it is in heaven
Give us this day our daily bread
And forgive us our trespasses
As we forgive those who trespass against us
And lead us not into temptation.
But deliver us from evil.
Amen.
Anything wrong with saying this prayer as a Muslim?Salam.
Just pray the way it is prescribed/described in The Quran.
The God tells us how to pray, when, what to say, what to do, everything.
No offence, amigo.Salam.
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Peace Magi,
of courese you do not create chaos just to make sure you appreciate it! ;D but where does your present awarness of it comes from? Is it not generated by your choice of heart viewing the duality of the reality? Awareness!!!!!!! Some others made a different choice They are indulging themselves in pleasures to forget this awareness!!!!!!! The spiritual growth arises from such choices and not because of any ERR!
statistically speaking putting humans on earth means chaos! don't you agree!? angles knoiw it then and we know it now by historical facts!
So the general sphere of chaos and adversity is what multitude of people are exposed to! through these environment the human heart is constantly exposed to make choices! and those choices are making us and our history!peace,
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you speak with wisdom freind. It still however does not remove our responsability to react, when we see chaos grow and multiply in what could be concidered, and unnatural pattern.
Example. Just 100 years ago, when people went to war, they went to a field and the armed troops killed eachother off. Often the cost to civilians where minimal. and we can trace a similar pattern backwards, but not always. Sometimes the non fighting casualties were rather drastic. These are the stories we read about in the scriptures, and the message is clear. When you see a certain kind of thinking arise in the lands, where people suddenly commit vast bloodshed within them, as but one of many symptoms of what is comming. you have a telltale sign to get out of there ASAP and concider what to do from there.
I feel pretty convinced that this is a cycle of civilisations. We are not the first ones here to drive cars, drive ourself mad, and ensure our mutual destruction. And this will continue, untill we "get it". Untill we actually start to heed the warnings. Sure what you call angels didnt think much of our species. But we were given trust from someone else that really matters. well aware that we are chaotic, that we create chaotic systems for ourself ,he belived it didnt have to be like that. So why isnt it like he trusted us it wouldnt be?
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Peace alpha & noah,
Excellent discussion. I hope you don't mind my two cents...
I see both points of view with understanding, but I lean towards noah's view in my own understanding. I don't think chaos was/is something we need in order to evolve our "self"s. On the contrary, I find that it is an energy-draining environment.When the malaikat knew of bloodshed caused by man, they were witness to the man that was already on earth...man - the animal. God knew what they did not, that He would endow the animal with language and intellect, "teaching him the names of all things". In effect, we were able to pursue and gain knowledge, and then choose from the viewpoint of knowledge gained as well as awareness of our own eternal nature.
For whatever reason, we were given these abilities and the choice. Now, this is fundamental, because in order to maintain the image of an all-good God, then the preferable option would be for all people to choose the right path. And if all people chose the right path, there would be no chaos. If this is the ideal, then chaos cannot be considered a necessity, but a consequence. Thus, no ying-yang.
However, since we are in chaos, the question arises, what do we do now? Is it enough to be a good person to yourself, to your family and friends? Or, must we go the extra mile of sacrifice and retreat/defeat all systems of opression and exploitation?
I don't think there's a clear-cut answer, because we all have our strengths and weaknesses. Not everyone is cut out to be Che Guevara, and not everyone is cut out to be Mother Theresa, but the world needs both.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace Magi, Tay, Phoenix,
time is short. but there is no haste. we still need to exchange idea on many issues. but for the time being a simple sketch of my thoughts up to now
Let?s say that there is body which is sick with cancer!
Each cell is born healthy, into this body, but has the potential and weakness from inside to be exposed to cancer by other cells. If one studies the lifetime of these cells which are very short compared to the life of the body one notices that there are different categories of cells.All the cells have cancer but in different gradation; except super-cells. Super-cells have created more sophisticated function in themselves. These functions are added to them in the process of cancer-repulsion. In the first stage they managed to repel the cancer from their own cell and in the second stage they are assisting the half cancer cells to repell the cancer from their cells and they will eventually take over the whole body and they will make a superbody.
The historical study of body shows that
- All cells come into body and after a short stay leave the body
- A substantial amount of cells left the body as completely degenerated cancer cells
- A great amount of cell left the body as half cencer cells
- A substantial amount of cells reached the status of supercells before leaving the body.
1- ISN?T THIS BODY A CELL EVOLVER? A CELL MAKING FACTORY?
2- ISN?t THIS BODY ITSELF HEADED TO BECOME SOMETHING ELSE, ONCE CANCER FREE?so there are two functions here! One that what happens to each cell and the other one is what eventualy happens to the body?
If there was no possibility of cancer , there was also no possibility of super cells. and without super cells there will come no super-body!
Without conqeuring the EGO inside, The SELF can never rise. EGO has a function. It is set there to be confronted and make him surrender. So comes the individual growth .
The same logic applies to society and history. The whole body of humanity is given thousands of year to reach the divine society. But he has to grow to that point.
Peace,