Question: Order of Surahs
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Allah had arranged it from shortest to longest and only had to put it together, but while relating some important information to the angels, He dropped the papers and everything got mixed up o >( -[. He was getting late for a torture class so he handed Gibreal the papers with all the chapters out of order. Gibrael was too lazy to put them back in order (his excuse was that Allah never ordered him to do that. not good enough). It is said that Gibrael lost a few of his wings for that.
I don't think the "surahs" were revealed in any particular order. The chapters of the book are compiled in that manner for some reason which I am obviously not aware of. and yes, the above account is only a joke. Unless I sneak it into the Sahih Bukhari collection.
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I think the order of chapters has never been changed since its revelation, because of the system of self-reverence it contains.
For example, the great reading states that "Jesus is like Adam".
The meaning of the statement is clear. Jesus being born without a father is like adam's creation.
However, in the mention of words, it says that the word "Jesus (Eesa)," in the Koran is like the word "Adam." It is surprising to note that indeed the word "Jesus" (Eesa) in its mention in the Koran is like the mention of the word "Adam", Both words occur in the Koran twenty five times. Not only that, it is in the same order of succession. The verse that mentions that they are like each other is the seventh time the word "Jesus" is mentioned and the seventh time "Adam" is mentioned.This is just one of the many examples one can find in the great reading which proof that the great reading hasn't been tampered with.
The system would fail if the order of chapters would have been changed.
See for more examples the following article about the "Quran and self-reverence"http//godel.rationalreality.com/
Peace
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What makes this aspect of the order of revelation important to me is the matter of abrogration (2106). I'm a first time reader and my understanding may not be correct, but isn't abrogration a matter of substituting a newer (chronically latter) revealed verse for an older one?
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Abrogation is the biggest misguidance created by Shafe'i. The word that was supposed to mean "abrogate" actually means the opposite. It is not a word that is already out of circulation or something you have to dig up classical dictionaries to find its meaning/s. It is a word that -ironically-found its place in science and techonology, to mean "copy"; "cloning", "reincarnation"...i.e "to confirm," so to speak in the brooad meaning of the word, and is used in schools, offices, publications, politics..etc etc to date.
The quran itself used it in this meaning only.
The motive behind this manipulation is to find a way to cancel verses from the quraan and the rules of God, and impose more control on people.
What is not known to many is that some scholars of Islam at the time were very much opposed to this "abrogation" and considered it as claiming that the quran is deficient and that God changes His mind for the whims of some humans or for no reason at all. Many opposing voices of this claim were either scielenced or ignored, and only the literature circuling around "abrogation" was allowed.
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I don't quite understand your meaning of abrogation. How would you translate 2106 replacing abrograte with another word that I could understand. Abrogaation makes much more sense to me if we make a distinction between "None of Our revelations do We abrogate..." and "None of Our verses do We abrogate..." Muhammed can and does abrogate the revelation of Jesus, just as Jesus abrogated the revelation of Moses.
2106 None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?
I realize this discussion is getting off the topic of my original question regarding the ordering of the surahs in the Quran. I am still interested in that.
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"None of Our revelations do We abrogate..." and "None of Our verses do We abrogate..."
What exactly is "nansakh"? Delete? Never heard of that!! It is "copy", "confirm"
None of Our revalations do we confirm or make forgotten, we bring similar or better"
Copy>>bring similar>> confirm
make forgotten>> bring betterWere all the previous revalations forgotten or, as you want "deleted", or we have the main ones "copied" in our Book?
Just search the quraan for the root "Nuun Seen Khaa" and see what you can substitute "delete" or "copy"?
Moreover, as I said, early scholars did not know of this "abrogation", and untill now they do not know exactly which verses are abrogated or why. Abrogation was a quick remedy for misunderstanding of many verses, and a sinster one.
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I am reading abrograte in this Surah as meaning to annul. But what is annulled is replaced with something newer or better. The changing of the Qiblih (Point of Adoration) is one example -- and one example where the chronology of Revelation is important.
Other earlier examples are described in the Bible where this matter of abrogation may also be understood to be part of a process renewal, refinement or fulfillment of the law -- a process which defines the station and purpose of the Prophet
517 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
518 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
519 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
520 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
521 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment 522 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire....
527 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery 528 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart...
531 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement 532 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
533 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths 534 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne 535 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. (King James Bible, Matthew)
Does this make any sense?
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I've always read Quran with the order the surahs were revealed and strongly recommend it.
Reading like this, first you get the chance to see the ayaths addressing the inner self, then aboout spreading the message, not putting anything in equalent to Allah. You have a better understanding about the flow of events. Long surahs about organizing worldly life comes towards the end, which is less confusing because you have already built a solid base.
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Peace everyone,
Allah had arranged it from shortest to longest and only had to put it together, but while relating some important information to the angels, He dropped the papers and everything got mixed up >( -[. He was getting late for a torture class so he handed Gibreal the papers with all the chapters out of order. Gibrael was too lazy to put them back in order (his excuse was that Allah never ordered him to do that. not good enough). It is said that Gibrael lost a few of his wings for that.
I don't think the "surahs" were revealed in any particular order. The chapters of the book are compiled in that manner for some reason which I am obviously not aware of. and yes, the above account is only a joke. Unless I sneak it into the Sahih Bukhari collection.
I hope the answer to the question raised on this thread is found in the links given below
http//19.org/forum/index.php/t/7554/0/
http//19.org/forum/index.php/t/7580/0/Yours truly,
K.Vivekanandan