State of Israel a Prophecy of the Qur'an?
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so i was looking at some verses from chapter 17 of the qur'an...i have no clue if it is a prophecy or something which has come to pass already. it's kinda hard to tell between the translations, the free-minds translation makes it sound like it is yet to come while other translations make it sound like it is something of the past.
174 And We decreed to the Children of Israel in the Scripture, that you will make corruption twice on Earth, and that you will become very high and mighty.
175 So, when the promise of the first one comes to pass, We would send against you servants of Ours who are very powerful, thus they managed to breach your very homes, and this was a promise which has come to pass.
176 Then We gave back to you your independence from them, and We supplied you with wealth and children, and We made you more influential.
isn't this what is happening right now? the jews have an independent state and they have become quite influential.
177 If you do good, then it will be good for you, and if you do bad, then so be it. But when the promise of the second time comes, they will make your faces filled with sorrow and they will enter the Temple as they did the first time, and they will strike down all that was raised up.
(the free-minds translation here makes it sound like the second time hasn't happened yet)
could this temple/masjid be jerusalem? now again, i wasn't sure if this was something that happened already...
017.007
YUSUFALI If ye did well, ye did well for yourselves; if ye did evil, (ye did it) against yourselves. So when the second of the warnings came to pass, (We permitted your enemies) to disfigure your faces, and to enter your Temple as they had entered it before, and to visit with destruction all that fell into their power.
PICKTHAL (Saying) If ye do good, ye do good for your own souls, and if ye do evil, it is for them (in like manner). So, when the time for the second (of the judgments) came (We roused against you others of Our slaves) to ravage you, and to enter the Temple even as they entered it the first time, and to lay waste all that they conquered with an utter wasting.
SHAKIR If you do good, you will do good for your own souls, and if you do evil, it shall be for them. So when the second promise came (We raised another people) that they may bring you to grief and that they may enter the mosque as they entered it the first time, and that they might destroy whatever they gained ascendancy over with utter destruction.(these translations make it sound like it has happened already)
but then a verse towards the end of the free-minds translation of the chapter makes it sound like the second promise hasn't happened yet...
17104 And We said after him to the Children of Israel "Dwell in the land, then, when the time of the second promise comes, We will bring you all together as a mixed crowd."
isn't this what is exactly what's happening now? the children of israel are returning to israel from all over europe and the world.
but then the other translations read
017.104
YUSUFALI And We said thereafter to the Children of Israel, "Dwell securely in the land (of promise)" but when the second of the warnings came to pass, We gathered you together in a mingled crowd.
PICKTHAL And We said unto the Children of Israel after him Dwell in the land; but when the promise of the Hereafter cometh to pass We shall bring you as a crowd gathered out of various nations.
SHAKIR And We said to the Israelites after him Dwell in the land and when the promise of the next life shall come to pass, we will bring you both together in judgment.yusuf ali made it sound like it came to pass while the other two make it sound like it's something related to the afterlife?
what's up with the pastense/futuretense conflict?
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Peace RiseUp
Well it all depends how you view the situation... you see to me i really don't see them as enjoying any semblance of independence or freedom. their wealth is wasted on fighting a perpetual fight that continues to be fed with more slain young folks on both sides. To me that is in no way a real nation with independence with no freedom to enjoy the wealth that they have. their children's blood are constantly spilled as well as their money in trying to live in the illusion of independence. so i think they have some work to do before the God grants them a peaceful place to live and co-exist. what they are doing now obviously isn't working for them. To each earns what he has nurtured. They have nurtured the bad, so all they receive in return is bad. it will continue to be a vicious cycle until it is broken and they submit to the God by serving their fellow man instead of harming him.
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Peace and Greetings
Dear Boost,
Israel has truly become mighty and arrogant from arab israeli war 1967.It defeated several countries within just a few days. It could have conquered the whole muslim world. Currently they are truly spreading mischief by depriving palestenian population of money and food so it as an easy way to commit genocide. Starvation leads to civil war which is currently in primary stages. Israel's job would be done by palestenians themselves. In lebanon war israel suffered little or no damage in comapare to the large scale massacres of the lebananese people. It would be very unfair to say that israel is suffering but in reality israel is becomig prosperous by grabbing resources of others. According to a recent servey jewish population of jerusalem has become a majority of jerusalem. Indeed their numbers have multiplied. Israel's loss of life is negligible due to their high quality of health system and better equipped army. Of course they are not immortals so some do die but with much greater loss of life by those fighting them.
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PEace Bro Abrar
I definitely agree with you that PAlestinians are suffering. However, the topic of the thread is the Israelis and whether they have a prosperous independant nation. Looking at their side only, i do not believe they really have an independant nation. They have no peace and they will continue to live in terror and fear and misery until they submit. you say they are mighty and strong then why can't they live in peace? It seems even the weakest of people who have nothing remain their worst nightmare. This is because the God will not give what a person does not deserve. The Israelis do not deserve to enjoy their wealth and children until they allow others to do the same. So they will have wealth but it is cursed money that will continue to be devoted to bloodshed. And they will have children but they will continue to grow up and die as soldiers fighting a lost battle. This to me is worse than having no wealth and no independance. If anything i see the God's curse upon them for being arrogant, God-rejecting oppressors.
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Dear Boost,
According to history Jews had become arrogant and mighty at the time of jesus christ.
First prophesy of the quran was fulfilled in the year 70 A.D when Titus destroyed israel. Here is the section of the article describing the event. Christians rose to power in jerusalem who are likely to be devoted ones since bible was fresh closer to the time of jesus. So christians were Allah's servants.Sulpicius Severus (363?420), referring in his Chronica to an earlier writing by Tacitus (56?117), claimed that Titus favored destroying the Jerusalem Temple to help uproot and demolish both the Jewish sects. Some scholars argue that this was not completely effective, and that the destruction of Jerusalem liberated the Christian church to fufill its destiny as a universal religion offered to the whole world. The account of Josephus, generally considered unreliable in this case, described Titus as moderate in his approach and, after conferring with others, ordering that the then-thousand-year-old Temple be spared. (Solomon's Temple dated to the 10th Century BCE, though the physical structure was Herod's Temple, about 90 years old at the time.) According to Josephus, the Roman soldiers grew furious with Jewish attacks and tactics and, against Titus' orders, set fire to an apartment adjacent to the Temple, which soon spread all throughout.
175 So, when the promise of the first one comes to pass, We would send against you servants of Ours who are very powerful, thus they managed to breach your very homes, and this was a promise which has come to pass.
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Peace and Greetings,
I have analysed Quranic prophesies in the light of current events and these are my views according to my opinion.
The two time promised jewish punishment mentioned in quran is to be considered. First was fulfilled at the time of Roman General Titus in 70 A.D at the time when christianity was the spreading religion(bible was fresh and unchanged). According to history Jews built Israel in the 20th century for the first time after 70 A.D in which they were almost destroyed. Jerusalem remained either in christian control or muslim control afterwards but Jews gained it in the 20th century. The second punishment is more likely to arrive in the future in which Jews will lose jerusalem again for the second time after 70 AD. An animal mentioned in Quran which will clarify signs of the God is also going to be released from the earth around this time. This animal is considered by orthodox jews as messiah which is going to liberate them out of current troubles but according to Quran Jews will have a chance to repent afterwards. Christians consider is as antigod or antichrist which is going to make peace around the world but Jesus will return back to earth to liberate christians from it. According to Quran this animal will logically clarify God's signs to people who were in dispute. Sunnis and shias consider it as Dajjal a one eyed monster which is a greater fantasy than even that of the christians. I think that this animal which is going to clarify God's signs to people was metioned in christian and jewish scriptures as well but over time they clouded it with fantasy tales. World is going to be revolutionised and islam will become the dominant religion/life code/system/way of life.
Following verses describe the background of animal's arrival and that a party of disbelivers will gather from every nation to witness the animal's words. It is also a known fact that world's oil supplies are finishing so we are approaching towards stone age if nothing else is invented fast. Time is running out and it might be the arrival Of the greatest and ultimate punishment of God ever.
Just go to the following link and find out why our civilization is at the brink of destruction.
http//www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/
The verses of Chapter 27 or sura Naml.
69.Say ?Roam the Earth and see how was the end of the criminals.?
70.And do not be saddened for them, and do not be distraught for what they plot.
71.And they Say ?When is this promise if you are truthful??
72.Say ?It may already upon you by some of that which you hasten.?
73.And your Lord has given favour to the people, but most of them are not thankful.
74.And your Lord knows what is concealed in their chests and what they reveal.
75.And there is not a thing hidden in the heavens or the Earth, but is in a clear record.
76.This Quran narrates to the Children of Israel most of that which they are in dispute over.
77.And it is a guidance and mercy for the believers.
78.Your Lord decides between them by His judgment. And He is the Noble, the Knowledgeable.
79.So put your trust in God, for you are clearly on the truth.
80.You cannot make the dead hear, nor can you make the deaf hear the call when they turn their backs and flee.
81.Nor can you guide the blind from their misguidance. You can only make those who believe in Our revelations hear you, for they have submitted.
82.And when the punishment has been deserved by them, We will bring out for them a creature from the Earth, it will speak to them that the people have been unaware regarding Our revelations.
83.And the Day We gather from every nation a party that denied Our revelations, then they will be driven.
84.Until they have come, He will Say ?Have you denied My revelations while you had no explicit knowledge of them? What were you doing??
85.And the punishment was deserved by them for what they transgressed, for they did not speak.Finally the knowledge would have reached its peak.
?We will show them Our signs in the horizons, and within themselves, until it becomes
clear to them that this is the truth. Is it not enough that your Lord is witness over all
things?? (Quran 4153)Jesus tried to guide jews in following verse.
"And when Jesus, son of Mary, said ?O children of Israel, I am God's messenger to you, authenticating what is present with me of the Torah and bringing good news of a messenger to come after me whose name will be ?most acclaimed.?? But when he showed them the clear proofs, they said ?This is clearly magic? " 616
General Titus defeated Jews in 70 AD who tried to kill jesus and christianity became world's dominant religion."O you who believe, be God's supporters, as Jesus the son of Mary said to his disciples ?Who are my supporters towards God?? The disciples said ?We are God's supporters.? Thus, a group from the Children of Israel believed, and another group rejected. So We supported those who believed against their enemy, and they were successful. " 6114
Christianity is currently the world's dominant. According to recent statistics only 25% of world's population is muslim and mostly are sunni shia and in future God alone Quranic Islam will become world's dominant. All other systems/life codes/religions will be exposed to the whole world in the most logically clarifying way."He is the One who sent His messenger with the guidance and the system of truth(religion), so that it will expose all other system (religion), even if those who set up partners dislike it." 619
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PEace Bro Abrar
Very interesting information. Thanks for sharing. I learned a thing or two D
So let me make sure i understand you are saying the first promise was fulfilled when they had control of Jerusalem but later was taken away and the second promise is fulfilled now and will be taken away with the coming of the creature that will show Signs? I always thought that creature will explain things in the quran we didn't understand before... but i may be wrong because i've never really investigated the meaning of that verse.
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Peace and Greetings,
Jews are working hard to begin building their temple and have many plans that are linked to current middle eastern conflict.
It is a news articel from israeltoday.com
Word from Jerusalem
Monday, March 14, 2005
Preparing for the Third Temple
?We have a deep desire to worship God in the Holy Temple again,? said Rabbi Yoseph Elboim, co-initiator of the extraordinary Temple Summit in Jerusalem. ?Three times a day we pray that God will let us worship on the holy Temple Mount again, as in Biblical times. We want to light the Menorah (candelabrum) in the Temple twice a day and burn incense to God. All these are divine commandments, and we want to prepare for them.?
About 1,000 people, among them rabbis, professors and Christians living in Israel, all pursuing the goal of erecting the Third Temple, took part in the festive dinner in Jerusalem. All the participants agreed that God will find a way to rebuild the temple.
With two mosques situated on the mount, which is Islam?s third holiest site, rebuilding the Temple seems a long way from the political reality on the ground. ?But when I see God gathering His people again after 2,000 years in the Diaspora and leading them home, the rebuilding of the Third Temple seems much closer,? said Elboim. ?How and when I don?t know; I leave it to the Almighty. We are preparing ourselves for when it happens.?
A key player in the unique Temple project is Orly Benny-Davis, an American from South Carolina who ran in last year?s senate race. A political activist, she is lobbying President George Bush to transfer the American embassy to Jerusalem as a first step.
?First, we have to realize that Jerusalem is still not accepted in the international political arena as the capital of Israel,? said Benny-Davis. ?At the same time, the Palestinians run around the world claiming that Jerusalem belongs to them.?
?The Bible says that the Holy Temple in Jerusalem will be a house of prayer for all peoples,? said Professor Hillel Weiss, who belongs to a group called Professors for a Strong Israel. Weiss told participants that ?it is our task to bring peace and love to the whole world from Jerusalem.?
The Traditional Location
The traditional view, and majority opinion amongst religious Jews today, is that the current site of the Dome of the Rock is the location of the Temple. Whereas Jewish religious leaders are emphatic that the Muslim holy sites must be destroyed to build the next Temple, there is disagreement as to whether the Altar of Sacrifice or Holy of Holies would have been located on the Rock. If the Rock is the location of the Holy of Holies, then the Temple would be built somewhat to the east to provide proper space in the back of the Temple. However, if the Rock is the location of the Altar of Sacrifice, then the Holy of Holies would be located to the west. Although there is not agreement if the Altar or Holy of Holies was located on the rock, there is unison agreement that the Dome of the Rock is the location of the Temple.
Religious Jews agree as to the location for the rebuilt Temple, and since the Dome of the Rock is identified as the location this raises questions as to what will take place in the future for the Islamic shrine. There is the possibility of moving the Muslim shrines, but according to Islamic law this would not be possible since the Arab conviction is that holy sites can never be given up and control transferred into the hands of infidels. Technically, as a result of Six-Day War, the Temple Mount is in the control of Israel. However, in light of political and religious issues, the Jews have delayed rebuilding of the Temple.
There is the possibility that climatic changes could take place in the Middle East, which would allow Israel to exercise control over the Temple Mount.
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First was fulfilled at the time of Roman General Titus in 70 A.D at the time when christianity was the spreading religion(bible was fresh and unchanged). According to history Jews built Israel in the 20th century for the first time after 70 A.D in which they were almost destroyed.
Actually, that was the second time that Jerusalem was nearly destroyed. The first time was at the hands of Babylon's army, when they rasied the holy city to the ground and forced the Jews into exile...Or Am I wrong??
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Peace and greetings,
Dear Pazuzu,
During first destruction jewish scripture was the source of right religion/system before jesus. Those babylonians were cruel conquerors and not the Servants of God (those who willfully serve God). Jews had not spread any great mischief or had not become mighty as they were during the time of Jesus. The devoted followers of God who believed in prophet Jesus helped the roman armies of titus defeat the Jews so Quranic first was in 70 AD.
175 So, when the promise of the first one comes to pass, We would send against you servants of Ours who are very powerful, thus they managed to breach your very homes, and this was a promise which has come to pass.
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is sura 59 referring to the children of israel/jews?
i ask because verse 14 states
"They will not fight you all unless they are in fortified towns, or from behind walls. Their might appears formidable among themselves. You would think that they are united, but their hearts are divided. This is because they are people who do not understand."this is modern day israel!
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Peace All
I would have to disagree. The ayat are timeless
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Peace and greetings,
Dear Boost,
The ayat have a deeper meaning for all times but according to the context they are referring to Jews of a particular period of time i.e prophet's time.
I have found a quote from History of the Christian Church Vol I which gives a description of the signinficance of the first promise/punishment for the Jews mentioned in Quran.
"The awfiul catastrophe of the destruction of the Jewish theocracy must have produced the profoundest sensation among the Christians. . . . It was the greatest calamity of Judaism and a great benefit to Christianity; a refutation of the one, a vindication . . . of the other. It separated them forever. . . . Henceforth the heathen could no longer look upon Christianity as a mere sect of Judaism, but must regard and treat it as a new, peculiar religion. The destruction of Jerusalem, therefore, marks that momentous crisis at which the Christian church as a whole burst forth forever from the chrysalis of Judaism, awoke to a sense of maturity, and in government and worship at once took its independent stand before the world. (History of the Christian Church, Vol. I, pp. 403-404)
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i am the one who suffered so much at torture cell of my own house being radio electrically traumatised and tortured and had these thought and now i have reached it and it is I myself.
Glory be to Allah the Lord of the Worlds.
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sweet nostalgia of my painful past. i am thankful to free minds for making my job easier as i never knew about it that it was i who was the one searching free minds painfully and fearfully.
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The first invasion of Israel was by Nebuchadnezzar.
The second IS Zionist Israel by Rome.( Roman Catholic Church)
Using the Guns of USA(Beast from the Earth, Lamb that speaks like a dragon) -
Comparing the Israel that existed thousands of years ago to this Israel is like comparing apples to oranges.
When the Qur'an is saying 'the children of Israel' It's refering to the ISRAELITES.
Israelites http//i.imgur.com/Akn82xa.gif Israelies.
Israelites http//i.imgur.com/Akn82xa.gif Jews.A Jew is an an adherent of Judaism, and Judaism is definently not an ethnicity or even a nationality- It's a religion started by an Israelite and over the thousands of years that have gone by many people converted to Judaism. Six million European Jews were gased with Zyklon B by Hitler's regime. European Jews have a long history of facing persecution in Europe especially when Christianity took over Europe and turned it into a primitive region. How can people claim that God is 'supporting' the Jews against the evil Arab 'hordes'? It's obvious to me that the reason why an Israel exists today is because of nature and whether you like it or not nature can also decide that Israel can vanish in a matter of seconds. The Ottoman empire lasted a long time before it was destroyed and abolished. Reading the history of the Jews I don't see how God is supporting the Jews anywhere. The Jews have faced a long history of persecution. During operation Badr the Egyptians destroyed about 400 Israeli tanks, killing 908 Israeli soldiers and injuring 2000 Israeli soldiers while Israel only managed to destroy 20 Egyptian tanks while killing 208 Egyptian soldiers. http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Badr_(1973) - So much for 'G-d' being on Israels side and all. For anybody who thinks that God is protecting Israel then think again. Israel is like a cow on steroids - And what I mean by that is that Israel is being pumped into with a lot of money from either Europe or the US. The US provides Israel $3 billions of dollars a year meanwhile Germany has given 25 billion euro(http//www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL33808.pdf or http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany%E2%80%93Israel_relations) to Israel as 'reparation' for the things that happened during WW2. Also Israel gets a lot of private donations especially from rich European Jews like the Rothschild. The truth is that if it was not for all the funds being pumped into Israel then Israel would fall a long time ago. Money is keeping Israel alive, and not God/Allah. Allah is not even a Zionist, just read the Qur'an. The language, traditions and culture of the Israelites already died out as the people living there were conquered by other tribes that forced their language, religion and traditions on these people(Finally by the Arabs hence Arabization) mainly because it was a way to prevent uprisings. The Palestinian Arabic accent itself is a typical Semitic language, which exhibits vocabulary strata that include words from ancient and modern Middle Eastern (Canaanite, Aramaic, Turkish, Hebrew) and European (Greek, Latin, French, English) languages due to different of factions that conquered which led to the original language of Palestine being mixed with these other languages.
The Qur'an is talking about a Middle-eastern people that existed thousands of years ago and not about a bunch of European/Soviet Jews. As for the wars between Israel and the Arab states; I'm going to say this to avoid details- During the wars between Israel and the Arab States the Arab countries were also fighting against each other. The Arabs in the Gulf for example were trying to overthrow/assassinate Arab politicians like Nasser by funding the 'Egyptian' Muslim brotherhood. Many Arab states had terrible communications and disagreed with each other due to different ideologies. That said- Israel had plenty of advantages because of Jews living in the Arab countries(Most of them were Europeans who escaped their own brethren's attrocities). Israel used these European Jews in the Arab countries to spy on the Arab countries which allowed Israel to coordinate attacks while reducing casualties otherwhise Israel wouldn't exist today.
The prophecies of the Qur'an regarding Palestine has already happened and does not apply to modern ERA anymore. The Qur'an does not support a homeland for the Israelies or the Jews- But rather for the Israelites so tell that to all fake 'sheikhs' that keep claiming that Israel belongs to the Joooooooooooos.
Regardless of what any scripture says- That does not give Israel the right to exist. Religion does NOT prove anything and is not taken seriously anymore for many reasons, and neither should anybody be using scripture when trying to justify the existance of Israel. Palestinians are NATIVE to Palestine and that's a FACT(DNA and History proves it).And don't you think that claiming that todays Israel was created by God/Allah is an insult to God/Allah? You're assuming that God/Allah would establish a homeland(Through ethnic-cleansing, massacres and looting) on a native people's homeland?
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As for the wars between Israel and the Arab states; I'm going to say this to avoid details- During the wars between Israel and the Arab States the Arab countries were also fighting against each other. The Arabs in the Gulf for example were trying to overthrow/assassinate Arab politicians like Nasser by funding the 'Egyptian' Muslim brotherhood. Many Arab states had terrible communications and disagreed with each other due to different ideologies. That said- Israel had plenty of advantages because of Jews living in the Arab countries(Most of them were Europeans who escaped their own brethren's attrocities). Israel used these European Jews in the Arab countries to spy on the Arab countries which allowed Israel to coordinate attacks while reducing casualties otherwhise Israel wouldn't exist today.
Semites killing each others is definitely a consistent theme throughout centuries of human history... nothing new..
Regardless of the names / identity that they invented for themselves.. (Arabs, Jews, Hittites, Mitsraim, Ashur, Babel etc..)
The name keep changing.. but the attitude remain the same..They're the only group of people on earth who (are crazy enough to) came up with the conception of "Holy Book"..
And they're using it for their own benefits... such as claiming the land of other people... massacre.. killing their enemy (stoning, beheading and crucifixion included).. ethnic cleansing etc....And recall when We took your covenant, "Do not shed each other's blood or evict one another from their homes."
And don't you think that claiming that todays Israel was created by God/Allah is an insult to God/Allah? You're assuming that God/Allah would establish a homeland(Through ethnic-cleansing, massacres and looting) on a native people's homeland?
By observing the facts... yes ethnic/races/species cleansing has happened many times in the past.
And given all of the events that has already took place is "In Accordance To God's Will" (Otherwise it will never happened), then the today's Israel was also established in accordance to God's will.Some of the examples of 'cleansing' event were
- Dinosaur extinction
- Neanderthal (The True Native of Middle East & Europe) extinction and assimilation
- Mongol & Turkic invasion, which includes massacre, looting and rapes of Middle Eastern population, caused 80% reduction of the entire middle east population at that time..
So yes.. God has performed massive species / human cleansing quite number of times..
Salam / Peace