Criticism of Mecca and Kaaba
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Also recommend to read this
http//19.org/index.php?id=91,418,0,0,1,0
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Wow, thanks Arnold. Great post. I was having a hard time understanding why people wouldn't think God is omnipresent as it's so clearly mentioned enough to be a basic.
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Peace and greetings,
Point to note is that Allah himself is not part of the Energy. Allah is the Creator of all energy and matter. Allah creates matter and energy by his "be" command out of nowhere. Allah can perish every energy and matter just by His "be" command and He is no need of any matter or energy. Allah is omnipresent which means that He is personaly seeing and witnessing evrything but he is established on the Throne that encompasses the Earth and seven heavens which is the edge of the universe.
Arnold your mentioned 11 reference to Quran cannot be verified. Please tell me the right verse as I have never read such a verse as that.
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11 With the Glorious Name of Allah, the Source of Instant and Eternal Beneficence and Mercy Who embraces the entire Universe in His fold, nourishing and taking care of all things for what they are meant to be, just as a mother's womb nourishes the embryo without any returns.
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Peace,
Yes. Abrar, energy and all matter is a creation of Allah. But it all comes forth of Allah. You say 'edge of the Universe', which verse says that? No verse. The concept of heaven being there somewhere is non-Quranic. Allah says clearly He surrounds ALL things. He just not only sees them, He surrounds them. Whereever you look, His Presence is there. As for 11, the 'Rahma' in Rahman and Raheem gives this meaning. The normal translation as 'merciful' is very wrong and misses completely the Arabic meaning of Mercy.
Please see
http//ourbeacon.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=23
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Peace and greetings,
Dear Arnold,
The God is eatablished on the throne which encompasses the earth and the heaven(universe)
Chapter 2 verse 255
"God, there is no god but He, the Living, the Sustainer. No slumber or sleep overtakes Him; to Him belongs all that is in heavens and in the Earth. Who will intercede with Him except by His leave? He knows their present and their future, and they do not have any of His knowledge except for what He wishes. His throne encompasses all of the heavens and the Earth and it is easy for Him to preserve them. He is the Most High, the Great.'
Chapter 7 verse 54
'Your Lord is God who created the heavens and Earth in six days, then He settled upon the throne. The night runs from the day, which seeks it continually; and the sun and the moon and the stars are all subjected by His command; to Him is the creation and the command. Glory be to God, the Lord of the worlds."
The throne is at the edge of the universe.Chapter 53 verse 7 to 9
"7.While he was at the highest horizon.
8.Then he drew nearer by moving down.
9.Until he became as near as two bow-lengths or nearer."I think if you have a problem with the understanding of the universe then visit the following link to find out what NASA says about the universe.
http//map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni/uni_101shape.html
Is the Universe Infinite?
The shape of the universe is determined by a struggle between the momentum of expansion and the pull of gravity. The rate of expansion is expressed by the Hubble Constant, Ho, while the strength of gravity depends on the density and pressure of the matter in the universe. If the pressure of the matter is low, as is the case with most forms of matter we know of, then the fate of the universe is governed by the density. If the density of the universe is less than the "critical density" which is proportional to the square of the Hubble constant, then the universe will expand forever. If the density of the universe is greater than the "critical density", then gravity will eventually win and the universe will collapse back on itself, the so called "Big Crunch". However, the results of the WMAP mission and observations of distant supernova have suggested that the expansion of the universe is actually accelerating which implies the existence of a form of matter with a strong negative pressure, such as the cosmological constant. This strange form of matter is also sometimes referred to as the "dark energy". If dark energy in fact plays a significant role in the evolution of the universe, then in all likelihood the universe will continue to expand forever.
Geometry of the Universe
The density of the universe also determines its geometry. If the density of the universe exceeds the critical density, then the geometry of space is closed and positively curved like the surface of a sphere. This implies that initially parallel photon paths converge slowly, eventually cross, and return back to their starting point (if the universe lasts long enough). If the density of the universe is less than the critical density, then the geometry of space is open, negatively curved like the surface of a saddle. If the density of the universe exactly equals the critical density, then the geometry of the universe is flat like a sheet of paper. Thus, there is a direct link between the geometry of the universe and its fate.The simplest version of the inflationary theory, an extension of the Big Bang theory, predicts that the density of the universe is very close to the critical density, and that the geometry of the universe is flat, like a sheet of paper. That is the result confirmed by the WMAP science.
Measurements from WMAP
The WMAP spacecraft can measure the basic parameters of the Big Bang theory including the geometry of the universe. If the universe were open, the brightest microwave background fluctuations (or "spots" would be about half a degree across. If the universe were flat, the spots would be about 1 degree across. While if the universe were closed, the brightest spots would be about 1.5 degrees across.
Recent measurements (c. 2001) by a number of ground-based and balloon-based experiments, including MAT/TOCO, Boomerang, Maxima, and DASI, have shown that the brightest spots are about 1 degree across. Thus the universe was known to be flat to within about 15% accuracy prior to the WMAP results. WMAP has confirmed this result with very high accuracy and precision. We now know that the universe is flat with only a 2% margin of error.
In Quran the word "RAHIM" means womb, "RAHMA" means mercy, "ALRAHEEM" means "The Merciful", "ALRAHMAAN" means "The Almighty". These meanings cannot be changed by any logic.
Nothing comes forth of Allah. Everything comes into bieng by his "be" command out of nowhere. Allah is exalted and has no relationship with anything He creates. Nothing is produced from inside Allah, everything is distinct and Allah is unique and has no relation with any kind of energy.
Chapter 112 verse 3
?He does not beget, nor was He begotten,?
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Peace,
Abrar, for one, you have completely mistaken the explanation of what the word 'rahma' is about. It is not that Allah IS a womb. He takes care of us AS a womb. BIG difference. The word Rahma refers to a nourishment towards perfection without any asking of returns just LIKE a womb nourishes a foetus towards perfection without asking any returns.
Secondly. A throne is a symbol of power. I was at a palace yesterday that had an open day for us 'common folk'. Thrones were never used as normal chairs. They are only symbols of power. To take the throne literally is unrealistic as it even clashes with the use of real thrones in our life.
And it was never about if the universe is infinite or not, as I know already it is not for years. I have studied Higher Physics myself. To understand 537-9 you have to understand what 539 means. The qab of a quas is the part of the bow that sits between the handle and the end of a bow or also from one end of the bow to the other. It was used in Ancient Arabic to specify a bond between two sides. In this case it is the Prophet who is the connection between Allah and the human through giving Muhammed Revelation. It has NOTHING to do with real distance or position. It has to do with that the Prophet was the bridge between the Divine Will and with the Human Will.
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hmmm..i ll think over this 1! -)
meanwhile..leads us to god and away from god...
..where is god? -)
peace thegod,
Where is god? god is everywhere.what is truth?
truth /tru/
?noun, plural truths- the true or actual state of a matter He tried to find out the truth.
- conformity with fact or reality; verity the truth of a statement.
- a verified or indisputable fact, proposition, principle, or the like mathematical truths.
- the state or character of being true.
- actuality or actual existence.
that pretty much sums it up. A dictionary can be helpful.
so what u cannot "verify" is not true?
yes. If you tell me I'm wearing a blue shirt. I will look to see if my shirt is really blue or not. If it is, then what you said is true. If not, you are a liar.
i said if no...but u do claim to know the truth of all things...so yes...if that be the case ur vision encopmasses all things! -)
I claim to know the definition of truth. If I know what truth means, I can find what the truth is. I can choose to limit my "vision" and understanding, but it isn't limited by nature. I can find out whatever I want to find out.
it is...life is complicated...reality is complicated....mathematics is complicated...perception is complicated!
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Yes, life is very complicated. But the basic process of verification is not. But for some reason you are having a tough time understanding it. Let me ask you a question, should we verify the things we read in the quran (or anyother book) or not?
quran says christ was not killed on the cross test it and tell me ur result! -)
I'm not sure if it actually says that, but let's assume for now that it does...
I can do research, find historical, archeological evidence and come to a conclusion.
But since this hasn't been proven by anyone yet, I will assume that my research would lead to nothing. So, I cannot believe what the quran says. If it is used as an example to explain a certain truth, then I will use to understand that truth and not go around preaching that jesus wasn't killed on the cross.so have u done what galileo did? gone up a tower and thrown down 2 different weights...or whatever he did? -)
go to the top of a tower on a windy day..and throw a feather and a blob of iron....and tell us what u observed! -)
wow. I hope you do understand that I didn't actually do that.
Anyway, all objects fall at the same time in a vacuum. In air, two objects with the same shape (with different masses) fall at the same time because the effect of air resistance is the same.
Are you trying to prove Galileo wrong or something?
Well, I am doing what Galileo did in the sense that (I really thought you would understand this already) I am not taking anyone's or anything's word as gospel. I have to verify everything. Otherwise we don't know what is true or not.
Why don't you give me your position on this. Should we just believe everything we read, or should we actually try to figure our whether it is true or not before following it?what? aristotle's belief? -)
again...u gave very convenient examples of black/blue font and of 2 + 2 = 4..
...but if u are color blind...u will have a hard time telling some colors from other...like blue/green...so? -)
What??
what kind of example do you want? I gave you a simple example, because I don't have all the time in the world to give you a very complicated example that is completely relevant to your life just to explain to you what the word "verify" means. If a person is color blind, he will not be able to tell different colors. But that's not what we are talking about, and colors is hardly the most important thing in life.
But then if a person is blind, and/or has a learning disability, he has no chance of ever reading the quran.
We are just going around in circles because you are not being clear about what you want to say. Just state your point and offer an explanation if you think it is needed or if I ask for it. You keep asking weird questions and I don't know how to answer them because I have no idea what in the world you are getting at.if u are not concerned about the quran...why are u concerned about that verse? it is from the quran...isnt it? -)
Let me restate what I said. I have an understanding of the verses of the quran (your understanding). I have found that that understanding doesn't make much sense. So, unless you can show me that it does make sense (and showing me verses will not do that), I cannot follow that understanding. So either the quran is saying something else, or the quran is just wrong.
Let's just stick to this right now, I think we are getting into too much at once.
peace -
Peace be with you
Thank you for the excellent post Abrar,
Thank you for the post Arnold,
But none of the verses you quoted say God is everywhere. Only you and the Indian Chief are saying that. Also the Rig Veda. But notice how straight forward the Veda and the Indian in saying God is everywhere. But did you notice there is no verse as such in the Quraan.
Its basic , but sometimes we do not comprehend basic because we take it for granted.
When we are told all our lives that God is everywhere it is hard to think otherwise. It comes as a shock to many that Quraan does not say God is everywhere.Muhithan does not mean God is ?everywhere?. If you read the verses again,only the words used in the Quraan, you will notice none of these verses say God is everywhere.
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phoenix1 wrote
Where is god? god is everywhere.if god is everywhere...then how do u go towards god and how do u go away from god? -)
what is truth?
truth /tru/
noun, plural truths- the true or actual state of a matter He tried to find out the truth.
- conformity with fact or reality; verity the truth of a statement.
- a verified or indisputable fact, proposition, principle, or the like mathematical truths.
- the state or character of being true.
- actuality or actual existence.
that pretty much sums it up. A dictionary can be helpful.
oh ok...u meant u know how to use a dictionary to get the definition of truth...cool! -)
...i thut u said u know the truth of all things! -)
yes. If you tell me I'm wearing a blue shirt. I will look to see if my shirt is really blue or not. If it is, then what you said is true. If not, you are a liar.
why do u keep things so simple? -)
...it maybe u are a color bind...
...in which case u will be fruitlessly arguing against the truth! -)
I claim to know the definition of truth.
yeah..i figured out that 1! -)
...but i had asked u if u know the truth of things..not the definition of truth! -)
If I know what truth means, I can find what the truth is. I can choose to limit my "vision" and understanding, but it isn't limited by nature. I can find out whatever I want to find out.
so u can find out the truth....whatever u want to find out...hmmm...like u can find out the truth of what happens behind the scenes? like who was masterminded 9/11? -)
Yes, life is very complicated. But the basic process of verification is not. But for some reason you are having a tough time understanding it. Let me ask you a question, should we verify the things we read in the quran (or anyother book) or not?
v cannot "verify" everything v read! -)
I'm not sure if it actually says that, but let's assume for now that it does...
cool! -)
I can do research, find historical, archeological evidence and come to a conclusion.
But since this hasn't been proven by anyone yet,
so all ur research involves is reading what others write about history and archeology...is it?
..u will somehow assume what u are reading...or part of it...is the truth? -)
and ur idea of verification of a thing is it being "proved" by someone else? -)
I will assume that my research would lead to nothing.
?
So, I cannot believe what the quran says
.so because nobody has "proved" it....u will not believe what the quran says...cool! -)
If it is used as an example to explain a certain truth, then I will use to understand that truth and not go around preaching that jesus wasn't killed on the cross.
so is jesus a historical figure? or is he another allegory? -)
...what kind of proof will convince u that jesus did or did not die on the cross? -)
wow. I hope you do understand that I didn't actually do that.
grin ...aristotle conjectured that heavier bodies fall faster (like u said)....
...galileo carried it out...verified it personally....
...u are like galileo....but u did not personally verify aristotle's conjecture? -)
...and are just believing what others say? -)
Anyway, all objects fall at the same time in a vacuum. In air, two objects with the same shape (with different masses) fall at the same time because the effect of air resistance is the same.
cool! -)
Are you trying to prove Galileo wrong or something?
indeed not...
...at the same time...on a windy day...from the top of a tower....a razor blade and a 50 pound iron blob
...which will hit the ground first? -)Well, I am doing what Galileo did in the sense that (I really thought you would understand this already)
I am not taking anyone's or anything's word as gospel. I have to verify everything. Otherwise we don't know what is true or not.
but galileo did not just read and speak....he did and spoke...and u r like galileo! -)
Why don't you give me your position on this. Should we just believe everything we read, or should we actually try to figure our whether it is true or not before following it?
yes..u should...but absence of evidence cannot be counted as evidence to the contrary! -)
What??
what kind of example do you want?something practical....v are not talking of colors and numbers! -)
I gave you a simple example, because I don't have all the time in the world to give you a very complicated example that is completely relevant to your life just to explain to you what the word "verify" means.
i am interested in how u carry it (the verification) out! -)
...but like u said...u cant verify whether christ was killed on the cross...so u wont believe quran when it says so..cool! -)
If a person is color blind, he will not be able to tell different colors. But that's not what we are talking about, and colors is hardly the most important thing in life.
But then if a person is blind, and/or has a learning disability, he has no chance of ever reading the quran.
then why did u put forth an example as trivial as black/blue font? -)
We are just going around in circles because you are not being clear about what you want to say. Just state your point and offer an explanation if you think it is needed or if I ask for it. You keep asking weird questions and I don't know how to answer them because I have no idea what in the world you are getting at.
u make ur own "verification" the criterion to judge the quran...
...u cannot verify part of it cuz nobody else has done it for u (like u said in christ's case)...
...so ur verification is just reading what others write....and choosing what best appeals to u...is it? -)
Let me restate what I said. I have an understanding of the verses of the quran (your understanding). I have found that that understanding doesn't make much sense. So, unless you can show me that it does make sense (and showing me verses will not do that), I cannot follow that understanding. So either the quran is saying something else, or the quran is just wrong.
so u will take a single verse out of the book...and want to make sense...based on what appeals to ul? grin
Let's just stick to this right now, I think we are getting into too much at once.
i agree....-)
...tell me why should the quran be agreeable to ur or anybody's particular senses? -)
peace! -)
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But none of the verses you quoted say God is everywhere.
Right.
Its basic , but sometimes we do not comprehend basic because we take it for granted.
When we are told all our lives that God is everywhere it is hard to think otherwise. It comes as a shock to many that Quraan does not say God is everywhere.It's like asking someone to prove a cat is a cat and then stubbornly insisting not to see that it is, infact, a damned cat.
Apparently, God isn't everywhere, He can only be found sitting in some lonely corner of the universe on His velvet cushioned throne and smoking His pipe. When we are closer to God, we are actually moving physically closer, thus no wonder some gurus levitate. This is not what the verses are saying of course but let's just ignore that and add edge of the universe to it for effect. Surrounding everything doesn't mean everywhere, All pervading doesn't mean everywhere and don't forget, God's presence allegedly is not God himself. Meh.
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Salam Nadia,
Not sure if I followed your post, but I think you are saying that God is everywhere (literally)?
If so, then the whole universe would have crumbled ages ago as it cannot withstand the
physicalpresence of God (remember Moses and the mountain).God does sit on a throne and Hos throne is upon the water (from the Quran)...Also, god on J-day wil come surrounded by the angels with 8 who will carry His throne (that is very physical).
Therefore, while God`s knowledge encompasses the entire universe and He sees and hears everything...Physically He is not present with us in our universe.
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Peace,
| - null| - null| - B? - ?a?}? you Moses (name of the prophet of Judiasm) | - null| - null| - his lord | - he said/said | - lord| - I see myself | - look/see/watch/wonder about/ perceive/consider about/wait for | - to you (s/m) | - he said/said | - if (e) | - you (s/m) see me/you understand me | - null| - look/see/watch/wonder about/ perceive/consider about/wait for | - was the -- thrown/is the -- thrown | - the mountain/the elevated ground higher than a hill/the creation/the mould | - a matter/an affair/a business/a state/a concern/a great matter/a great affair/a great business/a great state/a great concern | - null| - his place/his position/its place/its position | - so -- will/so -- shall | - you (s/m) see me/you understand me | - null| - uncovered/showed/shined/ revealed/glossed/made -- appear/it covered/it showed/it shined/it revealed/it glossed/it made -- appear | - his lord | - to the mountain/to the elevated ground higher than a hill/to the creation/to the mould | - null| - flattened/levelled off/destroyed | - null| - B? - ?a?}? you Moses (name of the prophet of Judiasm) | - null| - null| - he recovered/he woke up | - he said/said | - your (s/m) praise/your glory | - I repented | - to you (s/m) | - null| - first/beginning/beginner | - null|
Moses asks can i percieve you? >>He said "O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may percieve thee." <<
Allah says no you will never gonna see me fasawfa>> "By no means canst thou see/understand Me<< This is also confirmed by the verse
6102-103 .....No eyes can penetrate Him, but He penetrates all eyes, and He knows all the mysteries, for He is All-knowing.So this means NEVER we will see or understand Allah. Also by my knowledge there is no verse that tells us we will see Allah in His form in the Next Life.
Allah says BUT if this mountain can stand Me, you can see/percieve Me also>>But look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see/percieve Me." <<
Allah's real form was shown, which is formless
- uncovered/showed/shined/ revealed/glossed/made -- appear/it covered/it showed/it shined/it revealed/it glossed/it made -- appear | - his lord | - to the mountain/to the elevated ground higher than a hill/to the creation/to the mould | - null| - flattened/levelled off/destroyed
This means that the mountain also became formless, it went void. As Allah is formless and above any form as form means limits. And then Moses understood you cannot see or percieve Allah.
As for Allah coming on YauwmeDeen. First we must understand what YauwmeDeen is
yaum=time/era/period/day
deen=outcome/cause and effect/judgement/requital/system/orderthus it means
the Time when the Divine System rules the earth =when the Quran is upheld
the Constant Order of Cause and Effect and Judgement =Law of Requital
The Period when all things will have its eventual Outcome =our path of growth to perfection
The Era when we will be confronted with our Deeds in the Next Life
All concepts of Day of Retribution or Resurrection Day has 2 sides, one refers to this Life and the other to the Next Life.
Thrones in this world are symbols of power. They are not really used as chairs. NO king or ruler will sit on a throne all day long. Only when it is needed to show his power. Allah uses this symbol in a beautifull way. Nowhere does it say it is literal. What is normally translated as 'angels', malikah, literally means 'Ones in Control and Authority'. And refers to anything that has control and authority in the Creation. It refers to the Laws of the Divine Will.
So when 8 malikah=Ones in control and authority, carry the Throne=Power of Allah on YauwmeDeen. It refers to that the Laws of the Divine Will will carry out Allah's Power to create the Deen on earth. But also carry out Allah's Power when we have reached our definite Outcome=Deen and will be Judged=Deen.
So again
2115 To God belongs the East and the West. Wherever you turn the presence of God is everywhere
All-pervading is He and All-knowing.The presence of Allah is EVERYWHERE, to where do you limit this everywhere?
4126 Unto Allah belongeth whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth. Allah ever surroundeth all things.
Muhit=Surrounds =Allah ever surroundeth all things
To where do you limit the term 'ALL things'? To only inanimate objects? To only your pc? Is a molecule a thing? Belongs it to ALL things?
To where do you limit ALL things and EVERYWHERE?
5016 We created the human, and we know what he whispers to himself. We are closer to him than his jugular VEIN.
Close enough?
Allah says clearly He is Everywhere....To hold on to a physical form is limiting Allah. As a physical form is a limited presence. People have grown up with a physical god form, also because we project human-king forms on Allah. We only make Him look like a large man to make Him look more powerfull then humankings.
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Hmmm. I guess I consider myself pretty liberal and progressive but I'm not too sure about this one. I mean it does say in the Koran you have to pray. And since the time of Abraham, Muslims have prayed facing the Kaaba. I don't understand why you would make an argument not to do so. Doesn't really make sense. I believe the reason for doing making this rule is so to test our loyalty towards Allah. As a way to see how much we actually take the time to care for these things to see if we actually care about what he says. Well, I don't really see the difficulty in taking the time to find which way is east.
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It is a matter of principle that venerating objects in the name of the god is wrong. Of course, you seem to think that "your" objects are special and are different than the objects of the others. But this is what they all think.
Peace Ayman,
Your argument is along the same lines as below?
http//www.answering-islam.org/Silas/pagansources.htmSee rebuttals?
http//www.answering-christianity.com/que11.htm- And when we assigned to Ibrahim the house's location THAT DO NOT PARTNER WITH ME A THING, and cleanse my house for the passers by, and the remaining, and the humbly hearing and obeying.
Clearly an idol free physical place even by your interpretation ?my house for the passers by!?
Continuing with Surah 22 al-Hajj The Pilgrimage
2227 And call out to the people with the Pilgrimage, they will come to you walking and on every transport, they will come from every deep enclosure.
2228 So that they may witness benefits for themselves and recall God's name in the appointed days over what He has provided for them of the animal livestock. So eat from it and feed the needy and the poor.
2229 Then let them complete their duties and fulfill their vows, and let them traverse at the ancient Sanctuary.
2230 Thus, and whosoever honours God's restrictions, then it is better for him with His Lord. And the livestock is made lawful for you except what is recited upon you. So avoid the foulness of idols and avoid saying false statements.
2231 Monotheists to God, not setting up anything with Him. And whosoever sets-up partners with God, then it is as if he has fallen from the sky and the birds snatch him or the wind takes him to a place far off.
2232 Thus, and whoever honours the symbols of God, then it is from the piety of the hearts.
2233 In them are benefits to an appointed time, then their place is to the ancient Sanctuary.
Peace
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Ka'bah means focal point... which is not necessarily physical! Yes we are instructed to be focussed on "something" and it does not mean we need to physically face anywhere!
. . .. .. ...<- Here are some clues.
A D S V I R <- Decipher this!
.. . . ... ..<- Here are some clues.Hmmm. I guess I consider myself pretty liberal and progressive but I'm not too sure about this one. I mean it does say in the Koran you have to pray. And since the time of Abraham, Muslims have prayed facing the Kaaba. I don't understand why you would make an argument not to do so. Doesn't really make sense. I believe the reason for doing making this rule is so to test our loyalty towards Allah. As a way to see how much we actually take the time to care for these things to see if we actually care about what he says. Well, I don't really see the difficulty in taking the time to find which way is east.
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Salaams Arnold,All,
its going off topic, but just for your understanding as you mentioned it.
Just another compilation using QD.
Moses life. - A reminder.
7141
And (remember) when we saved you from people (of) Pharaoh who afflicted you worst torment killing your sons and letting live your women and in that a trial from your lord great.
7142
And we appointed for Moses thirty decadent (years) and we completed them with ten thus was completed set term (of) his Lord (of) forty decadent (years) and said Moses to his brother Aaron you be my successor in my rectification and do right and do not follow way (of) the mischief-makers.
7143 (Allah sends Moses and Aaron to pharaoh and his party.)
And when came Moses at our appointment and spoke to him his lord he said O my lord show me I may look upon you He said by no means see Me you and but look at the big or proud person/chief/lord/mighty person if he remained firm in his place then you might see me and when unveiled his lord to the proud person/chief/lord/mighty person he made him dust and fell Moses stunned and when he overcame/surpassed he said glory be to you I return to you and I am first of the believers.
7144
He said O Moses I have chosen you above people by my messages and by My speaking so hold what I have given you and be of the grateful.In urdu ?he turned to dust? ("woh to mitti bann gaia" means he lost all his strength of argument ? had nothing more to say.
I believe that is what happened in the case of pharaoh and then he got mad at his own advicers.
God Bless.
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Hmmm. I guess I consider myself pretty liberal and progressive but I'm not too sure about this one. I mean it does say in the Koran you have to pray. And since the time of Abraham, Muslims have prayed facing the Kaaba. I don't understand why you would make an argument not to do so. Doesn't really make sense. I believe the reason for doing making this rule is so to test our loyalty towards Allah. As a way to see how much we actually take the time to care for these things to see if we actually care about what he says. Well, I don't really see the difficulty in taking the time to find which way is east.
peace Zubair,
The quran tells us to pray (dua), but not in a particular direction.
And How do you know it's been that way since the time of Abraham?
Who was Abraham?
God has given us a brain so that we would use to to seperate truth from falsehood. Why would God want us to abandon it? Anything that calls for the abandonment of reason and logic has to be false. god is not testing our loyalty by making us face a certain direction.
I don't see what the difficulty is in jumping off a cliff either. I read in a book that that's what God wants us to do.
but you know what? I didn't jump off a cliff, because I questioned the book and figured out that it wasn't true. -
Peca and greetings,
Dear Arnold,
You did not understand what is meant by the edges of the universe according to higher physics, universe cannot withstand the God so He is above the edges of the universe, literally. I think you need to get more knowledge about physical cosmology so that you can at least appreciate the concepts of time, space and physical matter in accordance with big bang theory. Whatever answers you have given shows that you do not even bother to study about the universe. Even Albert Einstien said that the God is supposed to be outside the boundaries of the universe. You certainly have not studied Einstien's theories in depth. You like to make metaphors of anything that you cannot understand due to your lack of knowledge.
-
peace Abrar,
so you have studied Einstein's theories in depth?
and where did he say that about God? I thought he had a very different concept of god.
and if you are saying that god is not part of this universe, aren't you putting a limit on god? aren't you creating a space where god cannot exist?
what does it mean when the quran says that god is everywhere? and what does "closer to us than our jugular vein mean?"
