Chronology of the Quran
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Peace to all,
Allow me to share with you my experience with regards to the Quran and a particular thought. I'm making a long story short, very short.
Over 10 years ago I entered Islam walking backwards with eyes shut. I opened my eyes to discover it was dark, pitch black inside.
After a few months of ignorance I asked about a book that I could read. I was told about the Quran and so was offered one by a stranger in a mosque.
He instructed me to start reading from the end of the book, it would be easier for me. So I went to the back of the book and he told me that was the beginning. Anyhow I started reading the book as instructed and quickly the thought came that I should read in order. So I did.
Fatihah was easy. The Cow was different. I could not comprehend how anything in continuity of Jesus would instruct to killing disbeleivers. I closed the book. I made another attempt in reading Women (sourate 4). I found in it instructions to hit women. So I closed it again for long.
Never-the-less I kept within. After a few years I made it to salat. After a year or so I was questionned myself on zakat. Somehow in my search on the subject I decided to read the Quran in chronological order. I had a copy of the Quran which had numbers with mentions with pre-h?gir, post h?gir. In my questionning I had been told those numbers represented the chronlogical order of revelation, so I set out to list the order. It was from that list that I read. It was for me a discovery.
The subject matter in chronological reading is vastly different than in the actual order the book is today. It provides for an understanding and a notion of evolution of what was accomplished during the 23 years of revelation that is not accessible in the other order.
For anyone at the time of the prophet who witnessed the revelation, who was present at the time the prophet passed away the order in which the Quran was placed was perfect for them, then. Things are different today. My experience is that reading from iqra makes sense, as much as it did when it was first revealed. Perhaps it is logical and necessary to experience a notion of the movement of revelation possible with a chronological reading of the Quoran. I'd be interested in receiving the comments of those who make the experience.
peacefully yours,
adjwi
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Peace Wakas,
Beyond an idea I'm expressing myself about an experience. My first experience with the Quran lead me to an intellectual wall. Mentally, my reading using the historical or traditional order introduced me to subject matter that I had not acquired the prerequisites to understand. Al Bakara, sourate #2 is the 87th in chronology. Something like 13 years of revelation were necessary before that particular content could be revealed to Mohammed from Allah.
I experienced no such wall in the chronological order. Mentally I became tired before that ever happened from the mere content amount. Many times the Quran mentions that had Allah wanted, he could of revealed the entire book in one occasion. However this was not his method. Pedagogically this makes sense. Faced with the totality of the book how can one make sense of it entirely? Impossible. Only with time and method can this begin to be possible.
The revelation of the Quran accompanied the construction of an entire community beginning from a single person. What is left of that community today? Is today's challenge facing all of humanity not in community building? That person no longer among us couldn't the book be of guidance? Hasn't the order of the book that has been read for more than 1400 years accompanied the dismatlement of the initial community? Why not read in order that inspires construction rather than that which accompanied distruction?
History is the sum total of days and nights, nights and days. From light to darkness, darkness to light. My heart felt movement satisfying my mind when I read as I did. That was my experience, tradition free.
peacefully
adjwi
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Peace adjwi and welcome
so how did reading it in chronological order change the mental blocks you had of killing or hitting?
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Peace
Recent finding did not left any doubt for me that the only sequence order of chapters were revealed is table 23 by Dr.Rashad Khailfah . Your topic reminds me to resume my study according to order revealed which is stopped over 2 years.
Your participation welcome.
Peace. -
Peace all,
The fact is that BOTH the Chronological order as well as the order we have today(Quranic order) are mathemtically structured and correct. And i believe both serve their own purposes. Personally ive enjoyed the Quranic order very much. It is highly trnaisional, yes, but tht makes it all the more exciting for one to read on. Not like an ordinary book finishing one whole topic and then the next and so on. Rather the Quran rvela thigns to mind in parts detailing the same event at another stage and yet few more details at another. I havnt read it in CO yet but might do so as well. In regards to beating women that is a gross mistrnaslation and the killin of disbelievers must be considered in context of war. Any sane person who reads the whole passge from the beginning and continues would understand that it's when the disbeliever has already attacked. The Quran explictly condemns aggression so any misinterpretation is utterly impossible. GOD Bless! -
Peace Boost,
My understanding comes with iqra... There is soo much to learn, well beyond the capacity of any individual. It takes a community, it takes humanity to understand. We're not there yet. Reflecting on iqra bismi rabika lathi halaq... and so on is just the beginning. What would Mohammed have understood had that been revealed to him at the beginning of the 23 years? It wasn't and he couldn't have understood it and it wouldn't of been appropriate. It wasn't there and then to be. The conditions to understand where only present for such a revelation in medina more than 13 years into the project. The notion of evolution, of relativity, is in my experience of utmost importance. That experience is for those who read. iqra...
(For those who don't know, Iqra bismi rabika... are recognized as the first words revealed to the prophet Mohammed. These words are to be found in soura 96-1 of the Quran today, closer to the end of the book.)
peacefully
adjwi
(p.s. the count that I used came from the saudis version of the Quran and from memory it gave the same as that Dr. Khalifa. What is important is gaining the notion of order, a relative notion. Mohammed, probably Ali would have knowledge of the absolute chronology. That's not for us now and that science was probably been buried with them.)
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PEace Adjwi
I understand that reading the quran in chronological order made you put these verses into perspective but how so? Please tell us your journey, if you don't mind, about how reading it in chronological order put the verses of killing or hitting into perspective which would otherwise have been shocking to the senses. Did you go by hadith history of the prophet and the battles he was up against to understand why the verses came down? Or was it something else?
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Salam.
welcome Adjwi.
Intersesting idea, i may try it soon, God willing.
I also wanted to do a similar thing, i wanted to find out how long did each messenger lived.
Some say Adam lived 10.000 years ago, Abraham 8.000 years ago, but The God Most Powerful knows best.Peace.
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Peace,
Boost, my understanding is not from hadith. I've been told of hadiths, read very very little hadith and my interest is with the Quran. Neither born nor raised in tradition, also unable to read the language of the Quran my perspective is distant. Although distant, my direction seems good, my direction being in reading and contemplating the book. My past brought me to the Quran so allah's rahma seems present despite my shortcomings.
When the particular ayats you mention were revealed, the place, the time, the conditions were perfect for its revelation and for its understanding, then. I am prepared to admit my ignorance, my incapacity to understand all, now. Why argue about the window when the walls aren't even up? A foundation must be built, a floor put in place before we get to the walls. In due time we'll get to the windows. Are the disbeleivers the problem today or is it ignorance?
Male and female relationships have been a challenge throughout human history. There is a fundamental difference between both and the evolution of that relationship can be seen in the essential historical data the Quran provides. That leadership of understanding as well as misunderstanding belongs to man, not women. Evolutively, Adam's partner is more advanced than Adam himself as she had ruh-allah from her beginning. Chosen, elected from amongst those living, Adam received that ruh-allah, so that male history has a time when it is absent. That female history does not. The challenge of progress is to surpass, to go beyond the past. Noah seems to have done better than his wife, but his couple also failed.
There is chronology and there is history. Within that history we find the will of allah enacted by the guided ones and its continuity left for those who engage in the challenge today. Better know where we come from to stay the course, no? It took Mohammed 23 years or so to read the whole of the Quran the first time. What can I do?
peacefully
adjwi
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Peace Adjwi
Beautiful explanation! Indeed we are all on this journey. I think i'll try to find a list of the chronological order and read the quran once that way. Thanks for your knowledge
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the quran is it's own proof.
http//free-minds.org/articles/gods_system/koran.htm
this free-minds article illustrates why the qur'an is in exact order it is supposed to be. taking the traditonalist order of revelation would mean the structure miracle no longer exists.
this structure miracle is greater proof than finding any ancient manuscript.
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Peace adjwi and welcome
i just wondered what brought you to islam in the first place ?
you said
I entered Islam walking backwards with eyes shut. I opened my eyes to discover it was dark, pitch black insideWas it the code ? Coz that's what actually happended to me. Believe came long before acceptance of things i understood from reading quran.
Just curious,
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peace be upon you adjwi,
i am curious to know the order you read the quran. can you please provide me a link in "the order you read in the quran" from the internet, or is it in some book which is inaccessible in the United States?
and... welcome
peace, rifat
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Salaama all,
Thank-you all for your posts and questions, I shall attempt to provide answers.
RiseUpMyPpl, thanks for the link. I'm not sure what you are saying about the structural miracle not being elswhere. From what I know some people working with code 19 found structure in the chronological reading but I don't believe much attention has been given in that direction. I'm not sure either which reading could be called traditionalist.
As I mentionned, I made a list myself of the chronological order from the copy of the quran I obtained a few months after my enterance. If you go to the SUBMITTERS web site you should www.submission.org/quran/apps.html in appendix 23. Perhaps you can find it elswhere, I don't know.
Now Elke, what brought me to islam was a committment I made myself to honour my word. Spontaneously, I offered free, a perfect stranger, my country. This was said in the light of her, receiving a bureucratic response of leaving my country she was visiting on a visa, to deposit a request to obtain a students visa. She had made a request from within and was told to leave to make the request. She had no means to meet these silly rules as far as I was concerned so I said to myself you want my country I'll give it to you. That's pretty well how the story began.
Now mind you I had second thoughts about this afterwards and I could of said forget it stranger and nobody I knew would of known, but for personal reasons regarding where I was in my life at that time, I made a decision in that circumstance to honour my word. To my greatest surprise, entering islam became the only way to achieve this offer. Islam was thus a means, not an end. When I went to find out how to become a muslim, somehow awaiting for my ignorance to save me, for I knew nothing, I walked out of the place somewhat, if not very, shell-shocked after being told I was now a muslim! How could that be? Hence began my journey.
I entered islam to honour my word. In return for my country, I obtained a quran, which is now my book. What a bargain!
adjwi
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Salaam all
" Reading The Quran in CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER , How Do you Know This so Called CHRONOLIGICAL ORDER IS TRUE ??? Where is This Information regarding The Quran Chronology from ? Hadiths Huh ? yeah
The Quran as we find it today is The Order that The God Wants us to find IT and study it . Or do you think that , The GOD forgot to Arrange The Quran ? This is a Very Important Question. Please answer It with Reference to The Quran Verses as Verification . Thank you .almarhom
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Salaama all,
What is wrong with reading the book? My understanding is that what was revealed to Mohammed was not in the order the book is found today, do you agree? Was allah giving one order for Mohammed, one order for the rest? Or was it one order during revelation, one order after? And if the order after made sense to those who were present at the time of Mohammed, those who were left behind, does that mean it has to make as much sense today? I wasn't there 1400 years ago so is it possible that what made sense then doesn't make as much today?
My first book on islam was the quran, I picked-up the order from the copy of the quran. I have nothing to do with the tradition of the 'muslims', my effort is in trying to follow the path of those who did not go astray, the rightfully guided by allah, from Adam to Mohammed. From what I understand, Ali would be after the prophet the most knowkedgeable person with respect to the quran since he is said to have been present throughout and in the house. So historically, after prophecy, before shiism, I'll go with Ali for the straight line. From Adam to Ali. But that's not how the story went, for the umma that is.
adjwi
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Salaam Adjwi
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You did not answer my question regarding the "CHRONOLOGY" of The Quran .
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As per your UNDERSTANDING , Re 'What was Revealed to Muhammad' was not in the Order of THE QURAN
that we have Today is BASELESS !
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For your Information , THE QURAN WILL ALWAYS Make Sense to The People Who Use their INtellectual Faculties
and their hearts . -
You picked up the Chronology of the QURAN from The QURAN ? Do you mind telling us where in The QURAN ,
Chapter and Verse Plese?
*" Ali was the Most Knowledgable Re QURAN after Muhammad" ??? Evidence Please???
May THE GOD Bless You and Guide you Adjwi . Cheers
almarh0m
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Salaama all,
Would you be in a disputing mood almarh0m? How constructive can that be? The answer to your question has been given at the bottom of reply # 6. Because you haven't understood, I'll explain again.
The basis of my affirmation is not theoretical, nor is it ideology but from experience, my experience. Of anything I consider myself the most expert in that domain, my experience. So it should be for all other humans once they enter into adulthood and the further they move in life. But that's not necessarly the case, but definitely possible.
This experience is in relation with the quran I received, in this case a Saudi version with a french 'translation'. So in the quran I have, there are two types of words at the top of each chapter, sourate. They indicate pre-, and post- followed by a number. I don't have it besides me at this moment but this as accurate as I think. I had no idea what that meant. I asked the question and was told those numbers represented the order of revelation of chapters/ sourate as per who, I wasn't told and I don't think the person knew either. From there the story about iqra being the first word revealed. Is that true, I don't know I wasn't there. Were you?
So at one point I set myself to intentify from the quran I had the number 1, and 2 and so on. What I discovered was that chapter/sourate 96 had pre-1, 68 had pre-2, 73 had pre-3, 74 had pre-4, 1 had pre-5 and so on. What suprised me was that chapter/sourate 2 was the first marked post and it was post-87. What this was supposed to mean was that would be the first chapter revealed in Madinna in year 13 or something. But I don't know, I began my journey completely ignorant. Do you know for true?
In any case, in whatever order, the reading of the quran is not chronological in the events that are revealed. The evidence before me is that the 'muslim' world, sum total today is a confused bunch, killing each other, all in the name of truth and the name of allah. Why is that? Can you explain? Ask any party, all will tell you they are the righteous, others are wrong. Can that be?
The order of reading seems to be prevailing for over 1400 years. Where's the problem? With the book or with the reader? So I'm a free mind, are you?
As for Ali, would't his science be greater than that of the last convert?
adjwi
p.s. By the way, when do you think the numbers of the verses/ayats were put in? In the time of Mohammed or after?
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Many times the Quran mentions that had Allah wanted, he could of revealed the entire book in one occasion. However this was not his method. Pedagogically this makes sense. Faced with the totality of the book how can one make sense of it entirely? Impossible. Only with time and method can this begin to be possible.
20114 Then High above all is God, the King, the True. And do not be hasty with the Quran before its inspiration is completed to you, and Say ?My Lord, increase my knowledge.?
