The Divine Feminine?

Peace

Peace Y'all,
Well I haven't frequented these forums in a long time, seems like I take 5 month breaks between each post P, which invariably must rouse anger in those posters who reply to my topics and are left without a response. Please forgive me for that.

My opinion on the matter, and remember this is just my opinion, is that god would have to encompass the divine feminine as well as the divine masculine, in the same way that god would have to encompass the divine toilet bowl, the divine torturer, and even the divine you and I. Before you jump the gun and get all pissed off about what I just said, let me explain. It would be limiting to say that god did not exist in all these things, and I'm sure we all believe that god is infinite and everywhere, therefore, unlimited. God being everywhere means just that, there is no place where god does not reside. Unfortunately, we do limit god when we say that god exists in this but not that, this is divine, this isn't. Moreover, I find it strange now to say that the Quran is the word of God, because if I take a look around isn't this entire universe the word of god? If not, can you point out which part isn't from god? I don't believe that there is some external being from us that contains these attributes, rather this being is part of us, and these attributes are manifested everywhere. Nevertheless, this is just my arrogant opinion.
Take it easy.

alpha97

I don't believe that there is some external being from us that contains these attributes, rather this being is part of us,

peace peace,

One of the major problem of us humans is that we relate everthing to ourSELVES. We have an exploded collective ego.
And we fail to recognize that we are just a part of this creation which is NOT made for us. We are merely here to play our part. We have a meaning in relation to the WHOLE! This Whole had a meaning, function, purpose before creation of humans! and we have meaning as part of it! Hakim Sanai says AND DOES THE SUN EXISTS FOR THE COCK TO CROW AT?

i appreciate your ideas of seeing the omnipresence of GOD everywhere. Yes face of GOD is everywhere.

When i look at somebody,s face, in reality i am looking at a bunch of tissues with a boney straucture. Yet the sight, motions and sounds coming out of that face reveals the consciousness behind it which i can not see! Itis not in the face, but it is revealed through the face! and the face can give full exposure of that person presence! The hidden manifests! we will talk more soon, at least if you come by more foten ;D

peace,

unknownuser

PEace Be Upon You All

I think I'm coming to a greater understanding. God is the Initiator. God created the feminine and masculine but is not limited to them or by them. I as a human can relate to certain characteristics of God only in the way that I know best. So this is why certain attributes to my eyes seem masculine or feminine, but that doesn't mean that God is limited by my closed understanding.

(Brother? Sister?) Peace you said that God is in everything and so God encompasses the divine toilet bowl or divine torturer. I respectfully disagree. God has no polar opposite. God is not Love and Hate. God is only Love. This does not limit God in any way because God allowed for hate to be in this world, if we chose hate over God.

God is IN everything but there are actions that we take that are not in line with God consciousness and are more in line with the low ego (shaytan, satan). God created Satan too but God is not Satan. The key thing to remember is that God is IN everything but we have the choice to reject God or accept God. When we reject God then we followed something which God allowed to be in existence but is not God.

alpha97

Peace Boost,

Now we are really talking about the message and its application. I like the posts which touches the inside of the message and is not concerned with forms! thank yoU for sharing your thoughts.

my understanding is that Satan and ego are two different entities!

ego is the sense OF separation from the rest of THE existence. It belongs to Adam himself! Satan is a suggesting voice from within to separation and falshood! It operates on ego. Satan did deceived Adam! Satan played on the fear notes of Adam from death! Adam felt separated and fearful and longed to seek assurance of immortality! He doubted GOD,s word. Fear of death! why? Because he thinks that he has a separate identity! The I is born. This I is generated within Adam which want to take care of himself. I - Me - mine. The sense of Oneness and peace vanishes. Consciousness becomes fearful. The sense of unity is forgotton! There is need for REMEMBERANCE! if Adam wants transcend back to heaven he starts to get away from falshood and remember his unity within the kingdom of HIS MAJISTY.

we will talk more

peace,

unknownuser

Peace Be Upon You Brother Alpha,

WOW I love that explanation!!! I learned something new ! Thank you, brother!

God Bless you

Peace

Peace Boost,
Well I'm a guy so I guess brother would be the appropriate label. I'm glad you disagree, otherwise we wouldn't be able to have a proper conversation, there's no need to be respectful about it though . Okay, so you are saying that God has no polar opposite, but does the polar opposite actually exist in the world? It seems that in your opinion it does. Unless you want to claim that there is only love, and then a lack of love (labeled hate). In this case my view would be that God is still the lack of love, just in the same way that you would say love is a Godly attribute.

This does not limit God in any way because God allowed for hate to be in this world, if we chose hate over God.

What do you mean by allowed? Did someone say hate should be in this world and God just replied that yeaahh I'll allow it? Did humans create hate? I know you didn't mean it in this way, but here you seem to be separating God from hate. As if there is a separate entity or thing called hate, and then on the other side there is a being called God. Is God in the something but not in the nothing?

God is IN everything but there are actions that we take that are not in line with God consciousness and are more in line with the low ego (shaytan, satan). God created Satan too but God is not Satan. The key thing to remember is that God is IN everything but we have the choice to reject God or accept God. When we reject God then we followed something which God allowed to be in existence but is not God.

I see now the basis for us having different opinions. You say God is IN everything. I say God IS everything. Let us try and get to the bottom of this difference though. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you view a part of everything as God, and to you this would be the good part, the part that is all knowledgeable and able to do anything. On the other hand, there is a part of everything that is the bad part, or the part that is limited in knowledge, and not able to do anything; the part that isn't God. Now let me see if a question can help illustrate the way I view things. Is God everywhere?

If you agree that God is everywhere, as I do, then the whole universe is god. Every cell, every atom, every electron, or even string (if you believe in string theory), is God. There is no part of anything that can be termed other than god because god is everywhere. In this case there is no thing that isn't god. I do think it would be more appropriate to say that we are part of god, rather than god is part of us. This can be likened to a wave thinking it is different from the whole ocean; it isn't different, it is the ocean.

Some people may argue against this by explaining that while a single raindrop is in a puddle, a puddle isn't a single raindrop. Similarly, even though we are part of God, God isn't us. I disagree with this because of the fact that it fails to take into account the meaning of everywhere. If we said that a puddle is everywhere, then yes, that single raindrop would be a puddle.

If you disagree that God is everywhere then that's cool too. I'm not trying to change your mind about anything, just stating my opinion on matters. I 'see' god as being infinite, and so to me this means god is everywhere.

In the second part of this paragraph you state that god created satan, but that doesn't mean god is satan. To me this means that you must view god as a creator, in much the same way that a human is the creator of a robot (less free will). Yes humans are not robots, but external to them. Nevertheless, if we as humans were everywhere, infinite, and unlimited, we would be robots, because every single part of that robot would be us. This reminds me of "The Holographic Theory", where each part of a hologram contains the whole. Hope I got that right, haven't read on it for a while now.

When we reject God then we followed something which God allowed to be in existence but is not God.

My take on things is that it's impossible to reject God. I would see this as a possibility though if I didn't believe that god is everywhere and is thus everything. I look forward to your reply.

unknownuser

PEace Be Upon You Brother PEace

Allow me to break up your post into parts because you have alot of points in there. So it'll be easy for me to digest. Plus I'm hungry for some breakfast ;D
So there'll be a follow-up post some time i guess.

What do you mean by allowed? Did someone say hate should be in this world and God just replied that yeaahh I'll allow it? Did humans create hate? I know you didn't mean it in this way, but here you seem to be separating God from hate. As if there is a separate entity or thing called hate, and then on the other side there is a being called God. Is God in the something but not in the nothing?

If we were to take hate as the example, hate is a choice that we make. It is a rejection of God, a rejection of Love. It does come from us. When I say God allowed for it to exist, I mean that God made all things out of His Love and also created for us free will out of His Love. This free will can create things as a by-product of not accepting God or the essence within us. I don't agree that God created suffering in this world. We create it and God allows for us to have that freedom to choose it with all its consequences, thru His creation of free-will in man.

There is a verse that states something to the effect of Whatever good comes to you, know that it is from God. Whatever bad comes to you, know that it is from yourSELF.

I'll have to find the verse number so that you can verify it.

Now my tummy says, "why you hate me boost, why. if you don't feed me i'll eat you" >(

eat

to be continued...

alpha97

Peace sis Boost,

Nicely said.

It is about the vantage point! From vantage point of ego there is always a gain for MYSELF. Even in love, If the element of benefit to ME disappears then LOVE becpmes HATE. From the vantage point of HIGHER SELF ther is no ME, so the LOVE transcends the plane of duality! The fire becomes smokeless.

The vers is 4 78 - 79 . Verse starts with a statement over fear of DEATH! The reason behind the existence of ego.

peace

truth

Peace,

I think the term 'divine feminine' has only really come into popular consciousness since the fictional writings of Dan Brown in the Davinci Code. The article you post is from an organisation devoted to Eastern thought and awareness in their own admission. I think the article is trying to explore things with the underlying assumption of a masculine god. But this is just as nonsensical as putting forward a fuzzy concept like 'divine feminine'.

The God is neither masculine nor feminine. Even though we refer to "Him" as "He" this is not indicative of a gender but rather a limitation of language.

In this sense I am fortunate to be bilingual in Turkish and in that language there is no gender at all. There is no 'he' or 'she' at all and to think of things in neutral genderless ways is straightforward.

In my view the concept of 'divine feminine' is a doorway to pagan belief systems that embrace it. One must be aware of the poison baits that are dropped around to pollute the absoluteness of the God. I think that entertaining such things is flirting with these incorrect ideas. The God is far above what they attribute.

kevynbello

In my Faith, we try to avoid making anthrophomorphic descriptions of God and rather vesture Em in Eir Attributes and Names. Labelling anything masculine and feminine is culturally subjective anyways.

I just simplify my belief that Everything is in God, but God is not in everything (I am a panentheist, but even all forms of theisms fail that God transcends and above ALL human comprehension; the label is just my limited understanding of a transcendent but personal God). Rather, God dwells in the human heart, yet transcends all.

Peace and love!
Kevyn.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you,

Divine Feminine and Divine Masculine are the same as Yin and Yang. The are Modalities.

Divine Feminine corresponds to cold, water, dark, nouturing, within, ...ect
Divine Masculine corresponds to hot, fire, light, outer, forceful, .....etc

Life is about bringing about the balance of the "male and female" the Divine marriage.

People are conditioned as they grow to be polarized into one or the other, but life will bring you challenges to CHANGE ...it will bring the FIERY PERSONALITY a situation that demands "coolness" to get through.

unknownuser

Peace

Rahman is comes from Rahm or womb.In fact many attributes of God listed in the Quran are female.Allah from al-illah meaning "the god" is male.This shows that God can be thought of as both male and female.Not meaning that God has a male or female reproductive system.But simply that God is a mixture of oppisites.His most important name is most merciful yet he is also the most wrathful.He forgives and loves yet destroys citys like lot's.He is the source of peace yet will bring about a violent judgement day.So since God is contradicting he can be both a she or a he (not on a biological basis).The belif that this will limit has greatness is wrong.Creation is in pairs so God could have made male and female based on his core attributes.The reason most people call God he is because man is thought to have authority.Further in the the quran God speaks of the nafs and nafs is feminine.The Quran's use of female names for God is amazing because of its 7th century arab context.Also females are mentioned often in the Quran.The Quran mentions killed little girls and mothers having lost there only child and a elusive female is menteined often in the early so called "meccan" surahs.In one surah near the end of the Quran, God swears on "the male and the female".Why is the male and female so important that the lord of the heavens and the earth makes a oath on this.Also I find this surah very intresting.
"We sent him down on the night of destiny.
And what can tell you of the night of destiny?
The night of destiny is better than a thousand moons.
The angels come down-the spirit upon her-
by permission of their lord from every order.
Peace she is until the rise of dawn".
Although this may have been lost in translation, there is a unusaly suggestive blurring of masculine and feminine, especially in pronoun.Sunnis and shias see in this surah a mention of Muhammeds first revaletion.But Muhammed is missing in the this surah.Instead the night is given center stage.The night is described as a "she" and that the something that desinded was a "he".To me this surah describes a future in which the loving and warm peace of God's light will fill the dark world which is tired of the night and has long waited for day-break.Back to the divine feminine, God is both male and female as his names sugesst.And to this surah the blurring of gender sugessts the eqality of men an women.Also I may be wrong since im not a expert on arabic, layla the word used for night in this surah is I think (I might be wrong) feminine.I might be wrong.If I am forgive me peace

Lareb

anders

Yea i'm starting to think this isn't Islamic.
whether something is islamic is only relevant for islamists, not for truth seekers, the two not being mutually exclusive...
Why don't you ask whether it is true or not?

In all times it has been known that original source divided itself in two aspects in order to make creation possible the masculine (mind) and feminine (spirit), resulting in a 3rd possibility, their androgynous union known as the son of god (matter)
Early islam probably knew of this, but as with christianity the female aspect was not acceptable culturally and hence became written out of the script.
This is one of many falsifications that will see its correction soon.

On earth, both male and female are androgynous spiritually but 'specialised' physically for reproductive and evolutionary reasons.

anders

Double post removed, see above

huruf

In fact from God come all qualities. Whether we choose to call some of the this or that is for us and it is our choice. They serve us well, good, the stop serving as well, we may choose to order our perception and manifetation differently. That is not going to change God who is The Source.

huruf

In fact from God come all qualities. Whether we choose to call some of this or that is for us and it is our choice. They serve us well, good, when they stop serving as well, we may choose to order our perception and manifetations differently too. That is not going to change God who is The Source.

Sorry double post.

Samia

Salaam Aleikum,

Allah is all good Attributes combined into One. We have those attributes according to our biological needs. So for Allah it is just having an attribute, to us it may look like attributes are more female or male, but in reality they are just more compatible to male or female biological functions.

We call certain attributes as 'male' or 'female', but these attributes existed before there were any creatures created, before there was any male or female. Certain attributes were given to male and female, as these were compatible to the biological setup and functions.

So to say these Attributes are male or female is like saying a plastic bottle defines raw oil. Oil is used to define plastic, not the other way around. Same holds for the Attributes, they define human biological differences, but the our biological differences do not define the Attributes.

Also very important is that the Attributes explain what He DOES, not what He IS.

Allah is Above all we claim Him to be.

This is also what I think of God attributes and actions rather than existence.

anders

All thinking and all talk about god is of man. The futile way of the unwise.
Seek and ye shall find. Find and ye shall experience. The way of the wise.

the_path_of_light

This is a good thread, and I hope nobody minds me bringing it back.

I think acknowledgement of the divine feminine is very important to Islam. As I'm sure most of us will admit, we are stereotyped as being very anti-feminine (i.e. stoning females to death, etc). I wholeheartedly agree that at its essence, Allah totally transcends our notions of gender (and everything else, for that matter). There are several ways to look at Allah

Transcending Everything (as mentioned). Being infinite, and beyond space-time/time-space, Allah is unknowable at this level (at least in our current state of consciousness).

However, since we are humans, we are inclined to want to think about Allah. We are curious, and saying that Allah is beyond our comprehension isn't intellectually/spiritually satisfying. I use the terms masculine and feminine in their most primordial definitions masculine energy emanates, while feminine energy receives. At this level, those terms have nothing to do with gender constructs in a given society.

So even though we start defining Allah from our limited perspectives, this is important to do because at least for me, before I started praying and meditating on a regular basis, I tried to "figure out" Allah on an intellectual level. When we think about the divine, I think it is very important to acknowledge its feminine attributes. We experience this reality in a dualistic fashion, and it is important to keep your opposites in balance, in order to ultimately transcend completely these opposites.

So-called holy people that hate women really bother me (really, hatred in general bothers me). I find misogyny particularly awful though, because if you actively hate/show constant disrespect toward a little over half of humanity, your mindset can't be particularly endearing.

Here's an interesting website to check out http//harekrishnawomen.wordpress.com/ I am pretty sympathetic toward the religions of India, but this particular group of people's guru is fairly ridiculous, in my humble opinion.

The moral of the story is, don't be a hater. Salaam.

Also, I know I said there are several ways to look at Allah, and I only posted two.

The_Dreamer

PEace all

Interesting read... would like to hear your thoughts

Could it be that Allah is neither male nor female because He is both? I don't mean genitals, but characteristics. Read on

http//www.sol.com.au/kor/22_02.htm

Fatimah, Mary and the Divine Feminine in Islam

At the very core of Islamic philosophy there is evidence of what can be called a vision of the Motherhood of God.

In the first Sura of the Koran, the Fatiha that is recited by millions of Muslims in their daily devotions, God is called Al Rahmin, the merciful and compassionate one. ?Ramin? is derived from the Arabic for ?womb? or ?matrix?, mercy is also a feminine attribute, and so Muslims are reminded that God can be either woman or man. Every day God is compared to a mother and woman.

While the Muslim vision is often perceived to be authoritarian and punitive the Koran, on close inspection, is filled with descriptions and vision of God?s more feminine attributes such as gentleness, providence, love, universal compassion and tender-heartedness.

Muhammad was himself a living example of the Divine?s infinite capacity for forgiveness many times he forgave enemies who had committed unspeakable atrocities against him and his brethren.

The religious intolerance that characterises the behaviour of many Muslim communities today is inconsistent with the heritage of tolerance that is professed by the Islamic tradition. For example, the Koran clearly states in several passages that any person who lives a life of holy reverence is welcomed into paradise regardless of their religion. Muhammad openly praises both Judaism (Abraham is deeply respected within the Koran) and Christianity (Muhammad frequently praises Jesus and Mary in the Koran).

Even more surprising is the Koran?s reverence for Mary, mother of Christ. Muhammad (and also in later Islamic theological scriptures) regarded Mary as the most marvellous of all women, a high adept and living example of the pure and holy life. Later Koranic commentaries describe Mary as an intervening force between God (Allah) and humanity. This intervening force is characterised by Allah?s mercy, forgiveness, sweetness and humility- the embodiment of Allah?s love for creation.

When Muhammad retook Mecca he began a programme of removing the pagan influences from the Kaaba, the most holy of Muslim sites. He removed many frescoes and images that he considered inauspicious but he specifically left on the walls a fresco of the Virgin Mary and her child.

In one of the most powerful Hadiths ( prophetic sayings of Muhammad) it is reported that Muhammad said, ?Paradise is at the feet of the Mother?. Does this suggest that the feminine aspect of God is an important and essential pathway to the attainment of supreme consciousness?

Muhammad?s peak defining experience, called the Meraj, saw him elevated through the seven heavens to the realm of God Almighty at the resplendant Sidrath where he communed with God, received his divine visions and instructions and was placed on the inexorable course of his life-mission to establish Islam. Muhammad was escorted by the archangel Gabriel (a masculine force) but the vehicle upon which Muhammad rode was the beautiful ?Buraq?. The Buraq was a white horse with wings and the face of a woman! Clearly suggesting that the great power by which Muhammad was elevated to the level of supreme consciousness was ultimately feminine in nature! Some scholars say that the Buraq is an Islamic symbol of the Kundalini, a force that Eastern Yogis describe as the Goddess or Divine Mother.

Fatimah is another prominent female in the Islamic tradition. Muhammad revered Fatimah as if she were a divine being, saying "Allah, The Most High; is pleased when Fatimah is pleased. He is angered; whenever Fatimah is angered!"

Whenever Fatimah would go to the house of Muhammad, he would stand up out of respect for her and honour her by giving her a special place to seat herself in his house. He regarded her as a sort of primordial woman, a symbol of divine womanhood giving her many holy names, such as Siddiqah; The Honest, The Righteous; Al-Batool, Pure Virgin; Al-Mubarakah, The Blessed One; .Al-Tahirah, The Virtuous, The Pure, Al-Zakiyah ;The Chaste, The Unblemished ;Al-Radhiatul Mardhiah, She who is gratified and who shall be satisfied; Al-Muhaddathah, A person other than a Prophet, that the angels speak to; Al-Zahra, The Splendid; Al-Zahirah, The Luminous.

Shias revere the person of Fatimah, Muhammad's daughter and mother of the line of inspired imams who embodied the divine truth for their generation. As such, Fatimah is associated with Sophia, the divine wisdom, which gives birth to all knowledge of God. She has thus become another symbolic equivalent of the Great Mother.

Sunni Islam has also drawn inspiration from the female. The philosopher Muid ad-Din ibn al-Arabi (1165-1240) saw a young girl in Mecca surrounded by light and realised that, for him, she was an incarnation of the divine Sophia. He believed that women were the most potent icons of the sacred, because they inspired a love in men which must ultimately be directed to God, the only true object of love.

More generally speaking Muslims are reminded in the Koran that humans can experience and speak about God only in symbols. Everything in the world is a sign (aya) of God; so women can also be a revelation of the divine. Ibn al-Arabi argued that humans have a duty to create theophanies for themselves, by means of the creative imagination that pierces the imperfect exterior of mundane reality and glimpses the divine within. The faculty of imagination is commonly associated with the Divine Feminine.

While official Islam may not consistently describe the role of the Divine Feminine, this principle has been described and explored at length in the more esoteric Islamic tradition of Sufism. Sufism emphasises passionate, mystical adoration of God. Many Sufis (and other mystics in other religions) seek a spiritual union between themselves and the divine principle not unlike that between a child (the Sufi) and his mother (God) or a bride (Sufi) and the husband (God).

The Sufi poetry teaches the feminine qualities of joy, love, tenderness and self sacrifice on a path of true knowledge derived from the spiritual heart. The spiritual rebirth of the individual is not unlike the trial and tribulation of physical childbirth, according to the Sufis. They take the principle of divine love and use it to facilitate the process of alchemical transformation from mundane human to spiritual being.

The fanaticism that we see in modern Islam is a new development in a religion that, in its early history, was famous for its tolerance and respect for other religions. In Islam?s classical period in medieval Spain and Egypt perhaps only Buddhism rivalled Islam?s tolerance. The fundamentalism that characterises the behaviour of many of today?s Muslims is in fact anti-Koranic.

A Sufi Ode to the Divine Mother
On the face of the earth there is no one more beautiful than You
Wherever I go I wear your image in my heart
Whenever I fall in a despondent mood I remember your image
And my spirit rises a thousand fold
Your advent is the blossom time of the Universe
O Mother you have showered your choicest blessings upon me
Also remember me on the Day of Judgement
I don?t know if I will go to heaven or hell
But wherever I go, please always abide in me.

Too long; didn't read.