My journey to islam
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Peace sister "Zerda",
You raised some excllent points and ill definitely reply to them below.What I thought about mathemathics - I am not going to say thare is no mathematical system in that Book. I noticed that there is. But I also noticed that after discovering this mathemathical compositon, some people got a bit carried away with it, trying to prove everything with it. What disturbed me in that site was explanations about praying (proof through mathematics).
For example their articles about proving the number of raka's for each prayer. Where in the qur'an is mentioned that every prayer has 2 or 4 or 3 raka's in the first place? Where do they take stuff like this? Please, bring out the verses, if you know any. I could not find! And to say that salat is preserved already from Abraham's time - in this case Quran ONLY is not enough, you still have to rely on human beings to teach you how to do it. That did not make any sense to me.JK- I have to agree with you here although i once too though the mathematical code "integrated" into the five daily prayers rather fascinating but after a critical analysis with another brother we found out that the combinations were more or less possible with other five digit nos as well, thus falsifying the uniqueness. So yes as this happened and we as humans hae to go with what or current scientific knowledge supports. In that case GOD wont punish us even if it maybe proved wrong later. We did what we had to, using rational though and in the long run this approach has been shown to be successful. Personally i still pray in the traditional method until we can reach consensus of how "salat" is to be actually performed according to the Quran. Like i said wer in the progress.
And differences between hafs and warsh.. well I have heard about that as well but I think the differences are only minor and do not really distort the message itself.
JK- The message itself aint even distorted by 9128&129. Moreover this is not a good excuse since when GOD says that He protected the Quran and no falsehood can come at it, then even such minor diferences would violate this statement.
well, anyway, it's just my personal understanding and belief. It's normal for the people to have different understandings for the same thing - one day, God willing, we will all find out, but until that day the most important thing is to remember God and do good. peace D
peaceJK- I absolutely agree. GOD Bless!
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Peace Zerda,
Welcome to islam and the forum welcome and thank you for sharing your interesting story.
The God has promised to protect THE MESSAGE.
159 Indeed it is We who have sent down the reminder (al-zikr), and indeed it is We who will preserve it.
Whereas the 10 different versions of al-qur'aan (the great reading) have minor differences in some vowels or some letters, the basic message is the same and has indeed been preserved. "The reading" (qur'aan) might have minor differences, but "the message/reminder" (al-zikr) is the same. For further information please see the article at the following link
http//free-minds.org/articles/science/WhichQuran.pdf
For more information on the 19 theory and a debate that was held on this forum about it, please see the following links
http//free-minds.org/articles/science/ayman19.htm
http//free-minds.org/articles/science/debate19.htm
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9721.0
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=10068.0
May The God guide us all to the truth and the straight path.
Peace
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Peace bro "tanveer",
If there is no code in the Quran protecting the text, we might as well forget about it. Ive asked Ayman and the likes of him many times why theyd believe in the Quran and all i hear is because of the style and how it's written. This cannot be considered proof especially not in this era. Moreover how can anyone with commonsense claim tht such a message is protected and preserved. Tell me bro Tanveer, if you dont believe in code-19 HOW in GOD's name can you say that the Quran or it's message has been protected and preserved? Any religion can claim that its scripture is preserved. The question is "Wheres the beef"? We cannot be on one hand spending day after day rationally interpreting the Quran and on the other outright denying the only thing in todays era which proves its protection i.e. code-19. Honestly to me that is just as ironic as the Sunni/Shia folk claiming the Bible to be wrong yet following every nonsensical OT commandment which aint in Quran. GOD Bless! -
Peace bro Khizar,
The answer is staring in the face in the verse 4153 quoted in your signature !!
This issue has been discussed/debated many times on this forum in other threads and this thread is not appropriate for discussing this. As sis Zerda has rightly remarked that everyone is entitled to their own understandings and the most important thing is belief in The God and the Last Day and doing good deeds.
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Oh yeah, fudge Im good lol.
Anyway, the first thing that comes to my mind when I hear countries like Estonia and Latvia is lifeless people in thick fur coat walking in endless world of snow. Is that true? (Im sure it is not lol)lifeless people.. I'd like to see you in the temp -30C.. how much alive would you look ;D in the winter, especially in extreme cold (-20 and over), the best thing to do is to put your fur coat on and go. As quick as possible, better to use shortcuts, until you reach your destination. But even better to stay home. Roughly from November until March is the winter.
Spring is lovely (April-May). Lots of fresh air, the nature just wakes up from the winter, it is a special season. Makes you wonder about everything. The weather is quite sneaky (I don't know if you can say that about weather, but I'll explain). You think it's warm. You feel like wearing a t-shirt.. But the ground is still a bit icy. So in the shade it is quite cold. Very easy to catch cold.
Summers are nice and warm - +20C...+30C is normal temperature. So you can swim outdoors
I love the weather there as it varies a lot and just when you get bored of it, it changes. -
Peace bro "tanveer",
Peace bro Khizar,
The answer is staring in the face in the verse 4153 quoted in your signature !!
JK- 4153 does NOT BY ITSELF prove the Quran is from GOD by any means. It is because that very statement lies in between the mathematical bounds containing the Quran that it can be considered with high probability as being correct. GOD Bless!
This issue has been discussed/debated many times on this forum in other threads and this thread is not appropriate for discussing this. As sis Zerda has rightly remarked that everyone is entitled to their own understandings and the most important thing is belief in The God and the Last Day and doing good deeds.
JK- If it's just about believing in GOD then as i said why bother about the Quran. This forum mainly argues that the Quran is GOD's Word and ought to be taken as guidance. But to be so there must be something special abt it and you havnt told me what that should be in your opinion. GOD Bless!
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Peace bro Khizar,
What is special about al-qur'aan is ITS MESSAGE and not the actual physical words !! Refer the following
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13442.msg113166#msg113166
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But to be so there must be something special abt it and you havnt told me what that should be in your opinion.
There definitely is something special about Quran. And If you haven't felt it yet, be patient. God willing, you'll see angel That discovery was very special for me. And from one point I just knew. It's hard to explain it with words, you just have to experience it yourself. Qur'an is very special book, no doubts about that. With or without 19 (which is quite late discovery anyway. what about all these people pefore that? What about Muhammad himself?).
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Most of us have grown through submission.org, and that was a life changing experience,but then we turn back and fire our guns on the very boat which helped us sail through, how strange? Rk gave away his life, and we are benefitting,,,,we must not forget that he was a human being ,,and hence may have made some mistakes , but he gave us a platform to launch ,, this is the sad part of story.,,,,
Zerda!
i do agree with you .,,,, but we must understand that not every mind requires a similar proof, to be convinced about quran,,,,,, for some the language and script would be enough, but for others ,it won't ,
as for me, i did believe in quran, but my last few doubts were only cleared by mathematics,
Even if most of Rk's calculations are prooven to be faulty, i am sure it is protected with sort of something similar, ,,,,,,you and me,,,,, it is our generation who have to work at it.
peace
siki -
Peace
I thouhgt your post siki was very nice and I will consider that also, God willing
Appreciate oyu sharing your words and thoughts
Umm Sara
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Peace and welcome sister Zerda,
Well done to tell us your story in such a detail.
Peace sis Majidah(Maria)
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Peace to al,
I have to agree we owe a bit of thanks to Rashid Khalifa, i knew absolutely nothing about Islam or Quran until I converted, the first time I ever read the Quran was online and at submission org, i didnt even know there was a difference between hadeeth following muslim and us Quran alone at the time, when I read the Quran at submission I converted with tears in my eyes, i knew it was the truth and still is, so I do thank Khailfa, i do not worship him, i do not even really think he is the messenger of Quran as some say he is, i kinda believe in code 19 or at least I believe it could be true because it would be easy for God to do if he wanted to, but im not a mathamatician and im sure if some math genius were to try to tell me the code is wrong i would probably believe him too, bu if he told me the Quran is not from God I would never believe him, no matter how many math codes he uses to prove it.
Kurt