Praise Be to Muhammad rasool Allah

warner

Peace be with you

3356 In nal la_ha wa mala_ ikatahu_ yushalu_na alan nabiy ya_ ay yuhal lazina a_manu_ sal lu_ alaihi wa salimu_ taslima_

In the above quoted verse by Raj-ah the words ysalloo / salloo is commonly translated as blessings, help, praise (to the prophet).

Lets look at the root and the meaning of these words.

= Sad-Lam-Waw = prayer, supplication, petition, oration, eulogy, benediction, commendation, blessing, honour, magnifiy, bring forth, follow closely, walk/follow behind closely, to remain attached.

In a horse race when the second horse follows the first one so closely that its head always overlaps the first horse?s body that horse is called AL-MUSSALLI (i.e. the one who follows closely / remains attached). Central portion of the back, portion from where the tail of an animal comes out, the rump.

LL, V4, p 444, 445
http//www.studyquran.org

The meanings of Sa la wa above misses one important meaning which is obvious in the verse 1181. (I guess it is important not to follow lexicons/dictionaries or even the etymology without checking the use of the word in the Quraan.)

11 81

Transliteration Qa_lu_ ya_ lu_tu inna_ rusulu rabbika lay yasilu_ ilaika fa asri bi ahlika bi qit'im minal laili wa la_ yaltafit minkum ahadun illa-mra'atak(a), innahu_ musibuha_ ma_ asa_bahum, inna mau'idahumus subh(u), alaisas subhu bi qarib(in).

Yusuf Ali (The Messengers) said "O Lut! we are Messengers from thy Lord! By no means shall they reach thee! Now travel with thy family while yet a part of the night remains and let not any of you look back but thy wife (will remain behind) to her will happen what happens to the people. Morning is their time appointed is not the morning nigh?"

In 1181 most translated ?yasilu? as ?reach? which is the obvious meaning. And Yasilu is from the same root.

It is possible to reach some one with anger and vengeance and also to reach some one with help and mercy.

I believe the verse 3356 should be translated as

3356 FM God and His Malaika reach out to the prophet. O you believe you shall reach out to him and yield completely.

Also beyond this topic,

Using the same meaning ?reach? as derived from salloo/yusalli the much contested meaning for the word ?Salat? can be translated as ?reach out to Allah? which implies the meaning ?connect/connection?.

Available for your advise and corrections. Peace.

siki

Peace Raj-ah and all,

And here I was, thinking I'd find you quoting a verse asking us to PRAISE the messenger, or even a connection between "praise" and "messenger".

And He is GOD, there is no god but He. To HIM belongs all praise in the first and in the last, and judgment belongs with Him, and to Him you will be returned.

Oh and BTW, just to clear the air, when somebody praises the prophet, I dont get annoyed, irritated or.... itchy. confused But I do feel like I should point it out that it's not right. When you say things like this;The only reason you know Allah is Allah. Think about that one before you reply please.

If you don't mind my pointing out, it sounds like you're the one who's irritated and annoyed when others, like myself, do not praise Muhammad.

Peace be with you. )

Bang on Zen.. bravo thanks for arming me with a new weapon for fighting idol worshippers.
peace
siki

siki

Dear warner

So for ,your interpretation seems logical , yeah and goes one step further in deriving the correct understanding of the word, however i would wait for the "wise ones " comments on the issue to be sure about it .

peace

sikandar

Raj-ah

Ilisa

Peace,

I don't support bad-mouthing the prophet Mohd, however, a question comes to mind after reading your post---do these ayat specify WHICH messenger or prophet, exactly???

And we should not support, you are on right path, i guess. All the evidences lead us to the Prophet on whom the Quran was revealed first and he is Muhammad the rasool of Allah.

ILisa

Peace Rajah,

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean. Would you mind to clarify?

Thanks.

Raj-ah

Boost

PEace Bro Raj

You told me in another thread that in light of my comments you would open this thread. I open this thread and find that you are addressing people who do not show respect towards Mohamed.

I would never disrespect any of the messengers. They are much better people than i could ever be.

Well; You are on right path then I guess, if you donot disrespect prophet Muhammad.
The seconed sentence of yours is some what contradictory to what you posted in previous thread; why are they or He much better people than you ever could be???
You posted He was "Just" a Human and I say he was not "Just" a Human, he was a special Human.
So if you never can be as better as they are (according to u) then they are special and not "Just"
hope u understand.
Love for the Prophet, respect for the prophet is quite different from Shirk.

Regarding Saliva we leave it for the previous thread.

Iliza

Peace Rajah,

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean. Would you mind to clarify?

Thanks.

You said you donot support bad mouthing Prophet; well then you are on right path I guess. These Ayats are about Prophet Muhammad; all the evidences leads us to that. Had i clarified??

Well Let us start the discussion now, with those who think Muhammad is not legible for the Praise and at the same time they insist they follow Quran only.

jankren

Well, personally I do think the messengers were 'special' humans in the sense that their behavior were exemplary, exceptional and more importantly much better than average humans like me. However, in my opinion their 'specialness' as humans were not way better than the 'specialness' of people like Martin Luther King, Mahatma Gandhi or Mother Teresa because I think people like them are really special too.

Raj-ah

Johny-k

Peace "Rajah",
The point your missing is that theres a difference between Muhammad the man and Muhammad the messenger. Muhammad wasnt a messenger 24 hrs a day. ONLY AT SPECIFIC TIMES WHILST HE DELIVERS THE PURE MESSAGE OF GOD WAS HE A MESSENGER AND IN THAT RELATION HES TO BE OBEYED BECAUSE AT THAT MOMENT HIS HUMAN ACTIVITY IS SHUT OFF AND GOD IS DIRECTLY COMMUNICATING THROUGH HIM.

Well, well, well what do you say..... A part time Messanger of God brickwall
Please please my dear friends just to justify your thoughts don't try to make fun out of Islam.
A messanger is messanger throughout! The Ayats you have quoted have nothing to do with part time or full time messanger ship.

pazuzu

However, I agree with jonny-K totally, in that we should not Idolize him, and that we should deifferentiate between Muhamad the Messenger and Muhamad the Human Prophet.

NOWHERE in the Quran does God say "Obey the Prophet", or "Obey Muhamad". However, it does say "Obey the Messenger" . This means that Muhamad is to be obeyed as a MESSENGER, and not personally.

Also, all the verses that mention "prophet" are circumstancial with the time of Muhamad , and can no longer be applied today.

Whereas all the verses which mention "messenger" are commanding us to obey his eternal message which is found in the Quran.

Well we are going to discuss it in detail after quoting Zenje, hope u won't mind.

Zenje

Peace Raj-ah and all,

And here I was, thinking I'd find you quoting a verse asking us to PRAISE the messenger, or even a connection between "praise" and "messenger".

And He is GOD, there is no god but He. To HIM belongs all praise in the first and in the last, and judgment belongs with Him, and to Him you will be returned.

Oh and BTW, just to clear the air, when somebody praises the prophet, I dont get annoyed, irritated or.... itchy. But I do feel like I should point it out that it's not right. When you say things like this;

Zenje the Wise One, dear; First we would like to consider what is the meaning of word "Muhammad" it is

"the praised one" in Arabic.

now we move to Quranic verse 472

Khalifa
Those who believe and work righteousness, and believe in what was sent down to Muhammad - which is the truth from their Lord - He remits their sins, and blesses them with contentment.
Yusuf Ali
But those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, and believe in the (Revelation) sent down to Muhammad - for it is the Truth from their Lord,- He will remove from them their ills and improve their condition.
Pickthal
And those who believe and do good works and believe in that which is revealed unto Muhammad - and it is the truth from their Lord - He riddeth them of their ill-deeds and improveth their state.
Shakir
And (as for) those who believe and do good, and believe in what has been revealed to Muhammad, and it is the very truth from their Lord, He will remove their evil from them and improve their condition.
Sher Ali
But as for those who believe and do righteous deeds and believe in that which has been revealed to Muhammad - and it is the truth from their Lord - HE removes from them their sins and sets right their affairs.
"Progressive Muslims"
And those who believe and do good works, and believe in what was sent down to Muhammad, for it is the truth from their Lord, He cancels for them their sins, and relieves their concern.

to dismay of those who do not like Muhammad to be praised word "Muhammad" is used in this very verse.

Allah himself calls the Prophet in Quran by the name "Muhammad" which means "the Praised one". Allah ho Akbar!

You quoted verse 2870 but this verse is about oneness of Allah and no one is raising the status of Prophet to be that of God.
What we are discussing is the due respect for the Prophet and Love for him.

Now coming back to part time Messanger ship ??? I am sorry to say but this is the most funny thing I ever read regarding the messanger ship of Muhammad.

When a messanger is only a messanger when Allah is communicating with him, then how was it possible to understand Quran for the people of that time.
I mean to say for example when the word "Rehman" was first revealed who told the people of that time about Rehman?? and when the word Rehman was expalined communication was Shut (as you put it).
Allah says in Quran
Progressive Muslims"
Indeed, in the messenger of God a good example has been set for you for he who seeks God and the last day and thinks constantly about God
In messanger of God a good example has been set; definitly this is about his Chracter through which, he was able to gain companions those who offered their lives for him.
If he would have been a part time messanger then during his communication with Allah he would had obeyed, but after that he would be free as a ordinary human, for example to lie, to drink exessive wine, etc.

Progressive Muslims"
And We have not sent you except as a mercy to the worlds.

This command is continous and does not limits to the time of Communication, How can be a part time messanger be mercy to the worlds???
then again in verse 1779
"
Progressive Muslims"
And from the night you shall mediate upon it as you please, perhaps your Lord would grant you to a high rank
.

This is a continous command and not only for time of communication, We can go on and on but to make it short it is very clear that there is no such a thing as PART TIME MESSANGER. Messanger is messanger for all times and he has to implement upon his life what is revealed unto him and set an example for those who follow.

Raj-ah

We move on further (I am trying to take the translations for the verses according to progressive muslims)

Progressive Muslims"
So that you may believe in God and His messenger, and that you may support Him, honour Him, and glorify Him, morning and night. verse 489

"Honour" him, o; oh; a problem there for you Zenje and "glorify" him

Well what I am accepting now is some new transaltions from u, see to it.

People those who call Muhammad a Part time Messanger, may know that what is the criteria for choosing a messanger and Prophet.
Allah says in quran

"Never would a human being whom GOD blessed with the scripture and prophethood say to the people, "Idolize me beside GOD." Instead, (he would say), "Devote yourselves absolutely to your Lord alone," according to the scripture you preach and the teachings you learn." 379

So it is clear no one is making Muhammad an Idol; but
we can not take away the respect and Honor he deserves according to Quran, and again Quran says

Progressive Muslims"
Say "If your fathers, and your sons, and your brothers, and your wives, and your clan, and money which you have gathered, and a trade which you would fear if it declines, and homes which you find pleasing; if these are dearer to you than God and His messenger and striving in the cause of God, then wait until God brings His decision. God does not guide the wicked people

I am sorry but this is not my translation if sounds hard on those who do not think Muhammad as dear and criticise those who Love Muhammad and respect him.

Hadith following blindly is one extreme, making Muhammad little God is one extreme and Free minds is another, but there is a mid way the way of true believers.

Praise be to him the Rasool Allah.

almarh0m

Salamun alaykum

If you were to Translate Yusalli in 3356 as allahumma Salli ala ...... how would you translate Yusalli in 3343 ? Ahmad ( Muhammad ) was just another Messenger like all Previous Messengers and We were Not to Differentiate between him and other Messengers before him if we were Believers as per 2285 among other verses .
And Ahmad ( Muhammad ) was just a man like you and I the only difference is , he was Tasked by Allah to deliver the Qur?n and Nothing else .
The best way to pay our Respect to Muhammad is by Following the Quran which he Delivered and to Serve GOD alone .

Wassalamu' ala manittaba?l hudaa

almarh0m

unknownuser

Boost
Well; You are on right path then I guess, if you donot disrespect prophet Muhammad.
The seconed sentence of yours is some what contradictory to what you posted in previous thread; why are they or He much better people than you ever could be???
You posted He was "Just" a Human and I say he was not "Just" a Human, he was a special Human.
So if you never can be as better as they are (according to u) then they are special and not "Just"
hope u understand.
Love for the Prophet, respect for the prophet is quite different from Shirk.

Regarding Saliva we leave it for the previous thread.

Peace bro
When i said on the previous thread that he was just a human, i meant that he had no physical capacities greater than anyone else. His saliva would be the same as you or me. When i say now in this thread that he was chosen as a messenger and therefore had reached a level of piety that i can't reach, he was sepcial in the sense that not everyone could get to his level of spirituality. These are two different topics, so they are not contradictory statements at all.

And I don't know if others could reach his level of piety and righteousness or even surpass it. I can only speak for myself.

jonny_k

Peace "Rajah",

Johny-k
Well, well, well what do you say..... A part time Messanger of God brickwall
Please please my dear friends just to justify your thoughts don't try to make fun out of Islam.
A messanger is messanger throughout! The Ayats you have quoted have nothing to do with part time or full time messanger ship.

JK- You conveniently ignored the two verses(3336-37) i mentioned which clearly prove my point. GOD Bless!

Dion

When I recieved letter of admitance in faculty or letter for my green card application, I dont remember praising or thanking the mailman (messenger) for that. But I behaved nice, I even offered him something to drink, it was summer - hot.
Now that I have graduated, I am very happy and I thank God for that but I just never praise the mailman, I don't know why!

unknownuser

PEace Bro Raj-ah

You said

Love for the Prophet, respect for the prophet is quite different from Shirk.

Do you love and respect them all equally?

zenje

Zenje the Wise One, dear; First we would like to consider what is the meaning of word "Muhammad" it is

"the praised one" in Arabic.
You just killed your own argument.

Thanks and Peace be with you. handshake

siki

When I received letter of admittance in faculty or letter for my green card application, I dont remember praising or thanking the mailman (messenger) for that. But I behaved nice, I even offered him something to drink, it was summer - hot.
Now that I have graduated, I am very happy and I thank God for that but I just never praise the mailman, I don't know why!

This is exactly what Ra-jah is trying to point out , prophet Mohammad , or for that matter all the prophets were definitely much more than an average mail man. we must be quite careful and "REGARD HIM AS HE SHOULD BE REGARDED".
peace
siki

unknownuser

Bang on Zen.. bravo thanks for arming me with a new weapon for fighting idol worshippers.
peace
siki

Avtuallay the verse posted by Zen does not talk about Salat not Salam, it only say that the Hamd is to Allah, so Zen point is not really valid with my respect

Salam

Dion

(This is exactly what Ra-jah is trying to point out , prophet Mohammad , or for that matter all the prophets were definitely much more than an average mail man. we must be quite careful and "REGARD HIM AS HE SHOULD BE REGARDED".
peace
siki

Albert Einstein, Shakespear, Bill Clinton are more than average man or mailman let alone prophets of God.
The point is, the only way you can honor them today is by folowing the Quran.
Quran wasn't delivered to us becouse of Muhamad, it was the other way around. If it wasn't for the Quran there wouldnt be any Muhamed. By this logic its easy to conclude that Muhamed is not the central figure here. He was a man, mortal, he is dead. Quran is eternal worthy of praising.

zenje

Peace AB,

Avtuallay the verse posted by Zen does not talk about Salat not Salam, it only say that the Hamd is to Allah, so Zen point is not really valid with my respect

Salam

I'm a little confused, because I wasn't talking of "Salat" or "Salam". But if you could please translate in one or two words what "Hamd" means, that would clear it up.

Thanks.

unknownuser

Peace Dion, all,

Quran is eternal worthy of praising

Only Allah is eternal worthy of praising.

In the Qur'aan, the name PRAISEWORTHY/"HAMEED" is used only for Allah. In Paradise, the inhabitants will be praising Allah and not the messengers or the Qur'aan

743 And We removed what was in their chests of hate; rivers will flow beneath them; and they will say "Praise be to God who has guided us to this, and we would not have been guided unless God guided us. The messengers of our Lord had come with truth." And it was called to them "This is Paradise; you have inherited it for what you have done."

In the following verse we are told to PRAISE Allah and send PEACE upon His servants who He selected

2759 Say "Praise be to God, and peace be upon His servants whom He has selected." Is God better, or that which you set up?

I could not find any verse in the Qur'aan in which we are asked to praise any other than The God.