Praise Be to Muhammad rasool Allah
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Salaam Tanveer
Praise Be to Muhammad Rasul Allah is the subject on this thread yes? my questions are
- Is this praise to Muhammad bases on 3356?
*How would you translate the Word yusalli in 3343?
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Isn't the word "Muhammad" means the Highly Praised?
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Ahmad was the name mentioned in 616 rethe last Messnger?
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is not the Root of Ahmad are HMD ? and means Praised One?
And finally, I am just wondering whether the Hamd was Xtianised as "Hymn" ?
Cheers
almarh0m
Salam Almarh0m,
Sorry to butt into this convo,..but wow, I cannot believe I have no recollection of that surah 3356. When I read that just now, it makes me question it as you do...surely what is the meaning of this? Also, in 616...I know at one time being a former christian that I myself saw something like this in the bible...I cannot remember where, was it Isaiah? Anyone know?
Honor
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Salam almarh0m,
3356 God and His angels connect with/support the prophet. O you who believe, you shall connect with/support him, and comply completely.
3343 He is the One who connects with/supports you, along with His angels, to lead you out of darkness into the light. And He is ever Merciful towards the believers.
The words "Muhammad" and "Ahmad" as used in the Qur'aan are clearly proper names and cannot be used as common nouns. The meaning happens to be "praised one" but is irrelevant. "Layth" means "lion", which has nothing to do with the name of the administrator of this site ! Your name "almarh0m" means "dead" in my language, but I am sure you are alive !!
There is no direct and clear order for us to praise any other than Allah in the Qur'aan. Finding meanings in names and then inferring a command from that makes no sense.
Peace
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Salaam Tanveer
Thank you kindly for your prompt reply as usual . though I'd like to point out that you and the regulars on this Forum may already know and myself already know that . the reason I bring this up as I did in my earlier post at the top of this page is .......To bring to the Attention of the New members who may be of Sunni, Shi?h or other Denominations who practise Praising the Prophet by chanting Allahumma salli ala .... and you and I know that they based this practice on 3356.
That's why I asked about your ( their) take on 3343 , ok Bro ?
Cheers and God Bless
almarh0m
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Peace Honor
Not at all , all is welcome to comment on any Post as far as i am concened. About the Praise to the Prophet , It is based on 3356 ( you'll find it on the older Translation of the Quran such Yusuf Ali et al ).
As for Hamd and Hymn..................you'd know more I presume ? How many Hymns are there that Praised the Lord God with "How Great Thou art ?? Perhaps this is where the Sunnis, Shi?hs and other sects Discover the Word
"Allahu Akbar? as we can't find It in the Quran .Cheers
almarh0m
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Johnny K
JK- You conveniently ignored the two verses(3336-37) i mentioned which clearly prove my point. GOD Bless!
And those two verses are as below
b]3336] No believing man or believing woman, if GOD and His messenger issue any command, has any choice regarding that command. Anyone who disobeys GOD and His messenger has gone far astray.
So not only we should obey God but his Messaengers too.
Recall that you said to the one who was blessed by GOD, and blessed by you, "Keep your wife and reverence GOD," and you hid inside yourself what GOD wished to proclaim. Thus, you feared the people, when you were supposed to fear only GOD. When Zeid was completely through with his wife, we had you marry her, in order to establish the precedent that a man may marry the divorced wife of his adopted son. GOD's commands shall be done.
Muhammad Feared some of the people and that is very natrual, a Human fears humans on different basis on different occassions, even though his fear was not for himself but for ISlam to be defamed, but Still Allah did not like it and issued a warning to messenger, This clearly indicates that Prophet was a Human and Humans commit mistakes. But does it says any thing regarding the respect or disrespect for the Prophet, or you think basing on this warning from Allah to the Prophet we can assume that he is "Just" a human.
Actually you are basing your whole argument of part time messenger on these verses and that is not likely be to true. You think that when a Prophet commits an error or mistake at that particular time he is not a messenger, that is due to your assumption that a Prophet or Messenger is Error Free and that not is the case, No Human is Error free not even messengers. I think it is very simple there are other verses too when Allah has warned his messengers for commiting mistakes but that certainly does not means that they were Part time messengers.Hope to read more from You.
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Boost
he was sepcial in the sense that not everyone could get to his level of spirituality. These are two different topics, so they are not contradictory statements at all.
dear; A persons personality is described Physically and Spiritually, these two components make a personality and you may call it sub-topic but not different topics.
Nevertheless you again admitted that he was special and Yes he was! -
Boost
You said
Quote
Love for the Prophet, respect for the prophet is quite different from Shirk.
Do you love and respect them all equally?Yes I have to because Quran says it, but than again Allah in Quran points out
Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the (Prophetic) Messenger of Allah and the Last of the Prophets; and Allah has full knowledge of all things. (3340)
He is Prophet and Messenger that makes him higher than those who are only messengers or only Prophets and than he is the Last Prophetic messenger among those who were both Prophets and messengers.
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Dion wrote
When I recieved letter of admitance in faculty or letter for my green card application, I dont remember praising or thanking the mailman (messenger) for that. But I behaved nice, I even offered him something to drink, it was summer - hot.
Now that I have graduated, I am very happy and I thank God for that but I just never praise the mailman, I don't know why!Dion I don't think, I should be even answering this in normal circumstances but assuming (may be wrong) you are an astrayed Muslim youth..
It is a dumb thing to compare an ordinary mail man with Mail men of Allah.
The ordinary mail man's duty is just to deliver to you the mail and his duty is over but the Allah's Mail man's duty starts after delivering the mail that mail took many years to be delivered it was not just delivered as a book and over, How come you can forget the pain, the sarrowfull moments of that mail men who delivered Allah's message against All ODDS.
You wrote
He was a man, mortal, he is dead. Quran is eternal worthy of praising.
The body expires, the cover but not "US" it is only the transfer which takes place, he is not DEAD.
Quran are the words of GOd uttered through mouth of Muhammad.
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Zenje
Quote from Ra-jah
Zenje the Wise One, dear; First we would like to consider what is the meaning of word "Muhammad" it is"the praised one" in Arabic.
You just killed your own argument.Thanks and Peace be with you.
I never killed any one dear Zenje
And those who believe and do good works and believe in that which is revealed to Muhammad, and it is the truth from their Lord, He removes from them their ill-deeds and improves their state. (472)
Those who believe and work righteousness, and believe in what was sent down to Muhammad - which is the truth from their Lord - He remits their sins, and blesses them with contentment.
and by Progressive Muslims
"Progressive Muslims"
And those who believe and do good works, and believe in what was sent down to Muhammad, for it is the truth from their Lord, He cancels for them their sins, and relieves their concern.What was sent down to the "Praised One", for it is the truth from their lord......
So what other sense does it makes I would like to see, Please stage is all yours, post openly, one and two liners won't help.Siki
This is exactly what Ra-jah is trying to point out , prophet Mohammad , or for that matter all the prophets were definitely much more than an average mail man. we must be quite careful and "REGARD HIM AS HE SHOULD BE REGARDED".
peace -
Tanveer wrote
The words "Muhammad" and "Ahmad" as used in the Qur'aan are clearly proper names and cannot be used as common nouns. The meaning happens to be "praised one" but is irrelevant. "Layth" means "lion", which has nothing to do with the name of the administrator of this site ! Your name "almarh0m" means "dead" in my language, but I am sure you are alive !!
Mr. Tanveer you are committing same mistake as Dion, even more grosser
Comapring a name a person has assigned himself with the name ALLAH refers to...
How is word "Muhammad" irrelevent in the following verse??And those who believe and do good works and believe in that which is revealed to Muhammad, and it is the truth from their Lord, He removes from them their ill-deeds and improves their state. (472)
....Which is revealed to the "Praise Worthy" and it is the truth from their Lord...
I would like to see what is irrelevant in that.
and 3356 ok we take the translation you took for it and infact I did in my previous post
it says
3356 God and His angels connect with/support the prophet. O you who believe, you shall connect with/support him, and comply completely.
Support the Prophet? how we will support the prophet? and how shall we connect with Prophet??
When we support some one by connecting to him and comply to what he says by agreeing to him by Allah's command than he no more is an ordinary Man and has to be respected and regarded what as he deserves.
Allah Ho Akbar.
What is Maqaam-Al-Mahmood?
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Peace Rajah,
Comapring a name a person has assigned himself with the name ALLAH refers to...
How is word "Muhammad" irrelevent in the following verse??And those who believe and do good works and believe in that which is revealed to Muhammad, and it is the truth from their Lord, He removes from them their ill-deeds and improves their state. (472)
....Which is revealed to the "Praise Worthy" and it is the truth from their Lord...
You are the one making gross mistakes.
Firstly, "Muhammad" does not mean "praise worthy". "Hameed" means "praise worthy" which is the attribute of Allah.
Secondly, you cannot translate a proper name of a human and use it is a common noun. You are admitting above that it is a NAME, and then you are translating a name ???
Thirdly, once you translate "Muhammad" into "praised one" then ANY person who is "praised one" will fit that meaning. The ONLY way what you are saying would make sense is if it had said in the Qur'aan "Ahmad is muhammad", meaning Ahmad is "the praised one". Please find a phrase like that "Ahmad is muhammad", and you might have a point.
Fourthly, "Ahmad" means "one who praises", so now does "one who praises" become "praised one" ? This is what happens when you start translating proper names of a Messenger.
PRAISE is only for Allah according to the Qur'aan. Show me a verse where we are ordered by Allah to praise Prophet Muhammad.
When we support some one by connecting to him and comply to what he says by agreeing to him by Allah's command than he no more is an ordinary Man and has to be respected and regarded what as he deserves.
The discussion is not about "respect" or "regard" but "praise" in case you forgot !! One respects a Prophet and a Messenger by FOLLOWING THE MESSAGE THAT HE BROUGHT.
He is Prophet and Messenger that makes him higher than those who are only messengers or only Prophets and than he is the Last Prophetic messenger among those who were both Prophets and messengers.
2285 The messenger believes in what was sent down to him from his Lord. And the believers, all who believe in God, and His angels, and His Scriptures, and His messengers "We do not differentiate between ANY of His messengers;" and they said "We hear and obey, forgive us O Lord, and to you is our destiny."
Where it says "the messenger believes in what was sent down to him from his Lord", does "messenger" refer to Prophet Muhammad or not ? If yes, then in the same verse we are being told not to differentiate between ANY of Allah's messengers. Does that exclude Prophet Muhammad ?
By saying what is underlined in your quote above, you have DISOBEYED Allah as per 2285. This is how you RESPECT the Messenger ? By DISOBEYING his message, thereby DISOBEYING him ? o
The Messenger never asked anyone to praise him, but asked everyone to praise Allah. Thus by praising him, you are not following his example. Is this how you respect the Prophet and comply to him ? o
Please stop disrespecting and disobeying the Prophet and start following his message !
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Peace Tanveer,
Secondly, you cannot translate a proper name of a human and use it is a common noun. You are admitting above that it is a NAME, and then you are translating a name
Thirdly, once you translate "Muhammad" into "praised one" then ANY person who is "praised one" will fit that meaning. The ONLY way what you are saying would make sense is if it had said in the Qur'aan "Ahmad is muhammad", meaning Ahmad is "the praised one". Please find a phrase like that "Ahmad is muhammad", and you might have a point.
Thanks for explaining that to dear Ra-jah, and I thought by my saying he killed his own argument by going into the "praised one" issue, that he'd get it. Apparently not.Peace Ra-jah, here's a simple exercise;
Please post a verse from quran where the believers are asked to PRAISE prophet Muhammad.
Thanks.
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Peace AB,I'm a little confused, because I wasn't talking of "Salat" or "Salam". But if you could please translate in one or two words what "Hamd" means, that would clear it up.
Thanks.
Hey mate
well, sounds like the whole thread is confusion to be honest, well, it seems you have a point however the word Hamd for me is sort of like Shukr (Thanks) but I acceot that it means Praise, I thought Rajah was talking about the verse Salla Allah ala Mohammad Wa Salim, so the two actions of Salla and Sallim are not Hamd, that is what I'm trying to say, but hey I agree with you that most Muslims praise Mmohammad way too much
Salam
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Ahmad Bhagat
Hey mate
well, sounds like the whole thread is confusion to be honest.....
The thread is for those who think that Prophet is an ordinary man and they do not pay him respect and regard that he deserves for being a prophet and messenger of Allah.
From now on I think it will be more interesting as the conversation is narrowed down to fewer participants and hope we will arrive at some conclusion soon.
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Mr. Tanveer
You are the one making gross mistakes.
Firstly, "Muhammad" does not mean "praise worthy". "Hameed" means "praise worthy" which is the attribute of Allah.
Oh!
Dan McCormack. Online Etymology Dictionary. Douglas Harper. Retrieved on August 14, 2006, states
"Muhammad" means "the praised one" in Arabic and
"Hameed" means " (Arabic د, Arabic for "more praiseworthy".http//www.krysstal.com/wordname_arabic.html states that word
"Mohammed" = worthy of praise
"Ahmed" = more commendableWell if you ignore these two respected sources than I would like to see yours for denying it, up till this time it is you who has commited mistake and not me un less otherwise proved.
Tanveer
Secondly, you cannot translate a proper name of a human and use it is a common noun. You are admitting above that it is a NAME, and then you are translating a name
It is name by which Allah called him.
What you are trying to say is If some one says "Muhammad you Lied" it will mean "Praise worthy you lied" that makes no sense, COrrect, but you are not getting my point, It is name used by Allah, it is not the game of common and proper nouns I will explain it to you by further examplesAllah says in Quran (once again I quote)
And those who believe and do good works and believe in that which is revealed to Muhammad, and it is the truth from their Lord, He removes from them their ill-deeds and improves their state. (472)
The problem here, with those, who disregard prophet of any praise is they can't change the Arabic word "Muhammad" used in the verse.
Revealed to "Muhammad"
Revealed to the one "who is worthy of praise"Then who is worthy of praise?? offcourse he to whom Allah has revealed. I don not understand what is difficult in it to understand.
Allah calls "Muhammad" in 21107
Fourthly, "Ahmad" means "one who praises", so now does "one who praises" become "praised one" ? This is what happens when you start translating proper names of a Messenger.
Again the source please????????
Tanveer wrote
2285 The messenger believes in what was sent down to him from his Lord. And the believers, all who believe in God, and His angels, and His Scriptures, and His messengers "We do not differentiate between ANY of His messengers;" and they said "We hear and obey, forgive us O Lord, and to you is our destiny."
Where it says "the messenger believes in what was sent down to him from his Lord", does "messenger" refer to Prophet Muhammad or not ? If yes, then in the same verse we are being told not to differentiate between ANY of Allah's messengers. Does that exclude Prophet Muhammad ?
By saying what is underlined in your quote above, you have DISOBEYED Allah as per 2285. This is how you RESPECT the Messenger ? By DISOBEYING his message, thereby DISOBEYING him ?
The Messenger never asked anyone to praise him, but asked everyone to praise Allah. Thus by praising him, you are not following his example. Is this how you respect the Prophet and comply to him ?
Please stop disrespecting and disobeying the Prophet and start following his message !
Oh boy!
The verse 2285 says that "we" should not differeniate between any of his messengers" right very right that is for "Us" but when you talk about Allah then Allah says in 1779
Yusuf Ali
And pray in the small watches of the morning (it would be) an additional prayer (or spiritual profit) for thee soon will thy Lord raise thee to a Station of Praise and Glory!"Progressive Muslims"
And from the night you shall mediate upon it as you please, perhaps your Lord would grant you to a high rank.he was a messanger already when these verses were revealed, meaning to say that he was equivalent to other messangers according to 2285 but then Allah promises him further HIGHER RANK.
tanveer
PRAISE is only for Allah according to the Qur'aan. Show me a verse where we are ordered by Allah to praise Prophet Muhammad.
Zenje
Please post a verse from quran where the believers are asked to PRAISE prophet Muhammad.
PRAISE is
the act of expressing approval or admiration; commendation; laudationHere are the verses in which Allah praises his messengers and asks us to do so
God Has bestowed favour upon the believers by sending them a messenger from amongst themselves reciting His revelations and bettering them and teaching them the Scripture and the wisdom, and they were before in manifest darkness. 3164
Progressive Muslims"
Say "If your fathers, and your sons, and your brothers, and your wives, and your clan, and money which you have gathered, and a trade which you would fear if it declines, and homes which you find pleasing; if these are dearer to you than God and His messenger and striving in the cause of God, then wait until God brings His decision. God does not guide the wicked people.".....Dearer then Allah and his Messanger "the praise worthy" ...
Progressive Muslims" 684
And you are of a high moral characterProgressive Muslims"
And when the believers saw the confederates, they said "This is what God and His messenger have promised us, and God and His messenger are truthful." This only increased their faith and their submission
3342"Progressive Muslims"
This is the utterance of an honourable messenger. 6940Progressive Muslims"
The utterance of the believers when they are invited to God and His messenger to judge in their affairs is to say "We hear and obey." These are the winnersMr. Tanveer and Zenje, do you both recite the Quran or not?? if you do then you often come across these verses
Quran says about the messanger in the above verses
- He is Wise
- He is honorable
- He is good Judge
- He is truth ful
- He should be dearer to us more than of our relatives and finances.
What else do you call a Praise??????????????????????
Praise be to Muhammad Rasool Allah
So come to the truth
Allah is One and Only and we should ask forgiveness from him only and we shall obey him only and the one he asks us to obey besides him, we should love him only and the one he asks us to Love.It was the Prophet, who taught the scripture with wisdom, according to Quran, and through him I came to know my Allah.
AhmadBhagat
but hey I agree with you that most Muslims praise Mmohammad way too much
We are not of those who go to to extremes, we chose the midway the way of true believers.
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Peace Rajah,
Firstly, this is what you said in an earlier post
He is Prophet and Messenger that makes him higher than those who are only messengers or only Prophets and than he is the Last Prophetic messenger among those who were both Prophets and messengers.
This is a statement made by YOU and anyone can see that YOU are making Prophet Muhammad higher than those who are only messengers. So anyone can see that you are clearly disobeying 2285, thus disobeying the teaching of Prophet Muhammad, thus disrespecting him. The above quoted statement is YOUR statement and not God's.
Please back up the claim that YOU made and show from the Qur'aan where Allah says that if a messenger is prophet AND messenger, then he is at a higher rank than only a messenger or only a prophet.
If you cannot back up this claim from the Qur'aan, then it is YOU who is making one messenger higher than another thus disobeying 2285, and disrespecting the Prophet by disobeying him.
Secondly, this is what Zenje asked you
Peace Ra-jah, here's a simple exercise;
Please post a verse from quran where the believers are asked to PRAISE prophet Muhammad.
Asking us to hold someone dearer is not asking us to praise that person. Similarly in none of the other verses you quoted does Allah ask/command/order believers or muslims to praise Prophet Muhammad.
In your lengthy post you have not posted a SINGLE verse in which believers or muslims are asked by Allah to PRAISE Prophet Muhammad. Once you post such a verse then the discussion can proceed further. It is a very simple request.
Thirdly, "Muhammad" meaning "praised one" does not mean that is an order from Allah to believers to praise Prophet Muhammad. An order to praise Prophet Muhammad would be something like "O believers, praise Muhammad morning and evening".
Lastly, consider the following verses
1649 And to God prostrate all those in the heavens and all those on the Earth, from the creatures as well as the angels, and they are not arrogant.
1650 They fear their Lord from above them, and they do what they are commanded.Prostrating to God is a good quality
Being not arrogant is a good quality
Doing what Allah commands is a good qualityThus Allah is PRAISING the creatures of the earth, does this mean it is an order for us to praise the creatures too ?
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Peace,
469
And whoever obeys God and the messenger will be among those whom God has blessed, from the prophets and the truthful and the martyrs and the upright. What an excellent companionship!
"How does the "Prophet Muhammad" obey the "Messenger Muhammad" and fall into the category of all those blessed by The God?
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Mr.Tanveer I guess we are entering a stage when arguments are over and sentiments come in, and that is the best time one backs up. Your post is a prove for that.
Thirdly, "Muhammad" meaning "praised one" does not mean that is an order from Allah to believers to praise Prophet Muhammad. An order to praise Prophet Muhammad would be something like "O believers, praise Muhammad morning and evening".
So Muhammad means "praised one" thanks God you agreed.
Well my friend you Cannot dictate Allah; but infact you (if you recite Quran), me, and all of us who recite Quran PRAISE MUHAMMAD day and NIGHT.If we can't see it than it is we who should open our eyes and minds.
Rajah wrote
Quran says about the messanger in the above verses
- He is Wise
- He is honorable
- He is good Judge
- He is truth ful
- He should be dearer to us more than of our relatives and finances.
What else do you call a Praise?
You have not yet shed light on this question niether Zenje has.
If Allah says my Prophet is "Praise worthy", "honorable" "good Judge" "truth ful" "Full of wisdom" "nur" etc. and we recite the Quran daily and praise the Prophet daily weather you or any one likes it or not.
That is for the one who recites Quran.Now for example if I say
O prophet, the truth ful, your the wise one and not we
Allah has praised you and so do we
You are honorable and praise worthy, and good judge
No one can deny it no matter how strong he has a grudgeWhat is wrong in this PRAISE of Prophet did I said any thing against Quran.
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Mr. Tanveer, Mr. Zenje all the wise one's, burnouts please pay attention to following verses
Progressive Muslims"
Such messengers, We have preferred some over others; some of them talked to God, and He raised some of them in rank, and We gave Jesus the son of Mary the proofs and We supported him with the holy spirit. And had God wished, the people after them would not have fought after the proofs had come to them, but they disputed, some of them believed and some of them disbelieved. Had God wished they would not have fought, but God does whatever He wishes. 2253These messengers; we blessed some of them more than others. For example, GOD spoke to one, and we raised some of them to higher ranks. And we gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles and supported him with the Holy Spirit. Had GOD willed, their followers would not have fought with each other, after the clear proofs had come to them. Instead, they disputed among themselves; some of them believed, and some disbelieved. Had GOD willed, they would not have fought. Everything is in accordance with GOD's will.
The entire Prophets, blessing and salute to Them; are equivalent in Prophet-Hood, each of them has been given this award permanently. But, among all the personalities, Almighty Allah caused some Prophets to excel upon others and near Almighty Allah their Degrees are higher than others.
Allah please Guide us to the straight path!
Please take away confusion from us!
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Peace Rajah,
I see that you still have not posted a SINGLE verse in which believers or muslims are asked by Allah to PRAISE Prophet Muhammad.
And you still have not given any verse that mentions that if a messenger is also a prophet, he becomes higher than only messenger or only prophet, thus proving that you disobeyed 2285, thus disrespecting Prophet Muhammad by disobeying his teaching. That is very hypocritical to disrespect and disobey the Prophet on one hand and then praising him, don't you think ?
And you still have not answered the following question posed to you
1649 And to God prostrate all those in the heavens and all those on the Earth, from the creatures as well as the angels, and they are not arrogant.
1650 They fear their Lord from above them, and they do what they are commanded.Prostrating to God is a good quality
Being not arrogant is a good quality
Doing what Allah commands is a good qualityThus Allah is PRAISING the creatures of the earth, does this mean it is an order for us to praise the creatures too ?
Finally, if I say "X says Y is very good", am I praising Y or just quoting X's statement ?
Reversing it, if I say "X says Y is very bad", am I condemning Y or just quoting X's statement ?Let us look at it in another way. If I write a book in which while referring to Y, one of the statements is "you are very good". Someone else reads that book aloud and quotes that statement by saying "you are very good", is that praising Y or just reading a book ?
Mr. Tanveer, Mr. Zenje all the wise one's, burnouts please pay attention to following verses
Progressive Muslims"
Such messengers, We have preferred some over others; some of them talked to God, and He raised some of them in rank, and We gave Jesus the son of Mary the proofs and We supported him with the holy spirit. And had God wished, the people after them would not have fought after the proofs had come to them, but they disputed, some of them believed and some of them disbelieved. Had God wished they would not have fought, but God does whatever He wishes. 2253These messengers; we blessed some of them more than others. For example, GOD spoke to one, and we raised some of them to higher ranks. And we gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles and supported him with the Holy Spirit. Had GOD willed, their followers would not have fought with each other, after the clear proofs had come to them. Instead, they disputed among themselves; some of them believed, and some disbelieved. Had GOD willed, they would not have fought. Everything is in accordance with GOD's will.
The entire Prophets, blessing and salute to Them; are equivalent in Prophet-Hood, each of them has been given this award permanently. But, among all the personalities, Almighty Allah caused some Prophets to excel upon others and near Almighty Allah their Degrees are higher than others.
Firstly, this actually is proof that if Allah does something, it does not automatically mean we can also do it, unless Allah clearly allows us to do it too.
Secondly, WHICH messengers did Allah prefer over others or bless more than others ?