Praise Be to Muhammad rasool Allah
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Zenje
Quote from Ra-jah
Zenje the Wise One, dear; First we would like to consider what is the meaning of word "Muhammad" it is"the praised one" in Arabic.
You just killed your own argument.Thanks and Peace be with you.
I never killed any one dear Zenje
And those who believe and do good works and believe in that which is revealed to Muhammad, and it is the truth from their Lord, He removes from them their ill-deeds and improves their state. (472)
Those who believe and work righteousness, and believe in what was sent down to Muhammad - which is the truth from their Lord - He remits their sins, and blesses them with contentment.
and by Progressive Muslims
"Progressive Muslims"
And those who believe and do good works, and believe in what was sent down to Muhammad, for it is the truth from their Lord, He cancels for them their sins, and relieves their concern.What was sent down to the "Praised One", for it is the truth from their lord......
So what other sense does it makes I would like to see, Please stage is all yours, post openly, one and two liners won't help.Siki
This is exactly what Ra-jah is trying to point out , prophet Mohammad , or for that matter all the prophets were definitely much more than an average mail man. we must be quite careful and "REGARD HIM AS HE SHOULD BE REGARDED".
peace -
Tanveer wrote
The words "Muhammad" and "Ahmad" as used in the Qur'aan are clearly proper names and cannot be used as common nouns. The meaning happens to be "praised one" but is irrelevant. "Layth" means "lion", which has nothing to do with the name of the administrator of this site ! Your name "almarh0m" means "dead" in my language, but I am sure you are alive !!
Mr. Tanveer you are committing same mistake as Dion, even more grosser
Comapring a name a person has assigned himself with the name ALLAH refers to...
How is word "Muhammad" irrelevent in the following verse??And those who believe and do good works and believe in that which is revealed to Muhammad, and it is the truth from their Lord, He removes from them their ill-deeds and improves their state. (472)
....Which is revealed to the "Praise Worthy" and it is the truth from their Lord...
I would like to see what is irrelevant in that.
and 3356 ok we take the translation you took for it and infact I did in my previous post
it says
3356 God and His angels connect with/support the prophet. O you who believe, you shall connect with/support him, and comply completely.
Support the Prophet? how we will support the prophet? and how shall we connect with Prophet??
When we support some one by connecting to him and comply to what he says by agreeing to him by Allah's command than he no more is an ordinary Man and has to be respected and regarded what as he deserves.
Allah Ho Akbar.
What is Maqaam-Al-Mahmood?
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Peace Rajah,
Comapring a name a person has assigned himself with the name ALLAH refers to...
How is word "Muhammad" irrelevent in the following verse??And those who believe and do good works and believe in that which is revealed to Muhammad, and it is the truth from their Lord, He removes from them their ill-deeds and improves their state. (472)
....Which is revealed to the "Praise Worthy" and it is the truth from their Lord...
You are the one making gross mistakes.
Firstly, "Muhammad" does not mean "praise worthy". "Hameed" means "praise worthy" which is the attribute of Allah.
Secondly, you cannot translate a proper name of a human and use it is a common noun. You are admitting above that it is a NAME, and then you are translating a name ???
Thirdly, once you translate "Muhammad" into "praised one" then ANY person who is "praised one" will fit that meaning. The ONLY way what you are saying would make sense is if it had said in the Qur'aan "Ahmad is muhammad", meaning Ahmad is "the praised one". Please find a phrase like that "Ahmad is muhammad", and you might have a point.
Fourthly, "Ahmad" means "one who praises", so now does "one who praises" become "praised one" ? This is what happens when you start translating proper names of a Messenger.
PRAISE is only for Allah according to the Qur'aan. Show me a verse where we are ordered by Allah to praise Prophet Muhammad.
When we support some one by connecting to him and comply to what he says by agreeing to him by Allah's command than he no more is an ordinary Man and has to be respected and regarded what as he deserves.
The discussion is not about "respect" or "regard" but "praise" in case you forgot !! One respects a Prophet and a Messenger by FOLLOWING THE MESSAGE THAT HE BROUGHT.
He is Prophet and Messenger that makes him higher than those who are only messengers or only Prophets and than he is the Last Prophetic messenger among those who were both Prophets and messengers.
2285 The messenger believes in what was sent down to him from his Lord. And the believers, all who believe in God, and His angels, and His Scriptures, and His messengers "We do not differentiate between ANY of His messengers;" and they said "We hear and obey, forgive us O Lord, and to you is our destiny."
Where it says "the messenger believes in what was sent down to him from his Lord", does "messenger" refer to Prophet Muhammad or not ? If yes, then in the same verse we are being told not to differentiate between ANY of Allah's messengers. Does that exclude Prophet Muhammad ?
By saying what is underlined in your quote above, you have DISOBEYED Allah as per 2285. This is how you RESPECT the Messenger ? By DISOBEYING his message, thereby DISOBEYING him ? o
The Messenger never asked anyone to praise him, but asked everyone to praise Allah. Thus by praising him, you are not following his example. Is this how you respect the Prophet and comply to him ? o
Please stop disrespecting and disobeying the Prophet and start following his message !
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Peace Tanveer,
Secondly, you cannot translate a proper name of a human and use it is a common noun. You are admitting above that it is a NAME, and then you are translating a name
Thirdly, once you translate "Muhammad" into "praised one" then ANY person who is "praised one" will fit that meaning. The ONLY way what you are saying would make sense is if it had said in the Qur'aan "Ahmad is muhammad", meaning Ahmad is "the praised one". Please find a phrase like that "Ahmad is muhammad", and you might have a point.
Thanks for explaining that to dear Ra-jah, and I thought by my saying he killed his own argument by going into the "praised one" issue, that he'd get it. Apparently not.Peace Ra-jah, here's a simple exercise;
Please post a verse from quran where the believers are asked to PRAISE prophet Muhammad.
Thanks.
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Peace AB,I'm a little confused, because I wasn't talking of "Salat" or "Salam". But if you could please translate in one or two words what "Hamd" means, that would clear it up.
Thanks.
Hey mate
well, sounds like the whole thread is confusion to be honest, well, it seems you have a point however the word Hamd for me is sort of like Shukr (Thanks) but I acceot that it means Praise, I thought Rajah was talking about the verse Salla Allah ala Mohammad Wa Salim, so the two actions of Salla and Sallim are not Hamd, that is what I'm trying to say, but hey I agree with you that most Muslims praise Mmohammad way too much
Salam
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Ahmad Bhagat
Hey mate
well, sounds like the whole thread is confusion to be honest.....
The thread is for those who think that Prophet is an ordinary man and they do not pay him respect and regard that he deserves for being a prophet and messenger of Allah.
From now on I think it will be more interesting as the conversation is narrowed down to fewer participants and hope we will arrive at some conclusion soon.
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Mr. Tanveer
You are the one making gross mistakes.
Firstly, "Muhammad" does not mean "praise worthy". "Hameed" means "praise worthy" which is the attribute of Allah.
Oh!
Dan McCormack. Online Etymology Dictionary. Douglas Harper. Retrieved on August 14, 2006, states
"Muhammad" means "the praised one" in Arabic and
"Hameed" means " (Arabic د, Arabic for "more praiseworthy".http//www.krysstal.com/wordname_arabic.html states that word
"Mohammed" = worthy of praise
"Ahmed" = more commendableWell if you ignore these two respected sources than I would like to see yours for denying it, up till this time it is you who has commited mistake and not me un less otherwise proved.
Tanveer
Secondly, you cannot translate a proper name of a human and use it is a common noun. You are admitting above that it is a NAME, and then you are translating a name
It is name by which Allah called him.
What you are trying to say is If some one says "Muhammad you Lied" it will mean "Praise worthy you lied" that makes no sense, COrrect, but you are not getting my point, It is name used by Allah, it is not the game of common and proper nouns I will explain it to you by further examplesAllah says in Quran (once again I quote)
And those who believe and do good works and believe in that which is revealed to Muhammad, and it is the truth from their Lord, He removes from them their ill-deeds and improves their state. (472)
The problem here, with those, who disregard prophet of any praise is they can't change the Arabic word "Muhammad" used in the verse.
Revealed to "Muhammad"
Revealed to the one "who is worthy of praise"Then who is worthy of praise?? offcourse he to whom Allah has revealed. I don not understand what is difficult in it to understand.
Allah calls "Muhammad" in 21107
Fourthly, "Ahmad" means "one who praises", so now does "one who praises" become "praised one" ? This is what happens when you start translating proper names of a Messenger.
Again the source please????????
Tanveer wrote
2285 The messenger believes in what was sent down to him from his Lord. And the believers, all who believe in God, and His angels, and His Scriptures, and His messengers "We do not differentiate between ANY of His messengers;" and they said "We hear and obey, forgive us O Lord, and to you is our destiny."
Where it says "the messenger believes in what was sent down to him from his Lord", does "messenger" refer to Prophet Muhammad or not ? If yes, then in the same verse we are being told not to differentiate between ANY of Allah's messengers. Does that exclude Prophet Muhammad ?
By saying what is underlined in your quote above, you have DISOBEYED Allah as per 2285. This is how you RESPECT the Messenger ? By DISOBEYING his message, thereby DISOBEYING him ?
The Messenger never asked anyone to praise him, but asked everyone to praise Allah. Thus by praising him, you are not following his example. Is this how you respect the Prophet and comply to him ?
Please stop disrespecting and disobeying the Prophet and start following his message !
Oh boy!
The verse 2285 says that "we" should not differeniate between any of his messengers" right very right that is for "Us" but when you talk about Allah then Allah says in 1779
Yusuf Ali
And pray in the small watches of the morning (it would be) an additional prayer (or spiritual profit) for thee soon will thy Lord raise thee to a Station of Praise and Glory!"Progressive Muslims"
And from the night you shall mediate upon it as you please, perhaps your Lord would grant you to a high rank.he was a messanger already when these verses were revealed, meaning to say that he was equivalent to other messangers according to 2285 but then Allah promises him further HIGHER RANK.
tanveer
PRAISE is only for Allah according to the Qur'aan. Show me a verse where we are ordered by Allah to praise Prophet Muhammad.
Zenje
Please post a verse from quran where the believers are asked to PRAISE prophet Muhammad.
PRAISE is
the act of expressing approval or admiration; commendation; laudationHere are the verses in which Allah praises his messengers and asks us to do so
God Has bestowed favour upon the believers by sending them a messenger from amongst themselves reciting His revelations and bettering them and teaching them the Scripture and the wisdom, and they were before in manifest darkness. 3164
Progressive Muslims"
Say "If your fathers, and your sons, and your brothers, and your wives, and your clan, and money which you have gathered, and a trade which you would fear if it declines, and homes which you find pleasing; if these are dearer to you than God and His messenger and striving in the cause of God, then wait until God brings His decision. God does not guide the wicked people.".....Dearer then Allah and his Messanger "the praise worthy" ...
Progressive Muslims" 684
And you are of a high moral characterProgressive Muslims"
And when the believers saw the confederates, they said "This is what God and His messenger have promised us, and God and His messenger are truthful." This only increased their faith and their submission
3342"Progressive Muslims"
This is the utterance of an honourable messenger. 6940Progressive Muslims"
The utterance of the believers when they are invited to God and His messenger to judge in their affairs is to say "We hear and obey." These are the winnersMr. Tanveer and Zenje, do you both recite the Quran or not?? if you do then you often come across these verses
Quran says about the messanger in the above verses
- He is Wise
- He is honorable
- He is good Judge
- He is truth ful
- He should be dearer to us more than of our relatives and finances.
What else do you call a Praise??????????????????????
Praise be to Muhammad Rasool Allah
So come to the truth
Allah is One and Only and we should ask forgiveness from him only and we shall obey him only and the one he asks us to obey besides him, we should love him only and the one he asks us to Love.It was the Prophet, who taught the scripture with wisdom, according to Quran, and through him I came to know my Allah.
AhmadBhagat
but hey I agree with you that most Muslims praise Mmohammad way too much
We are not of those who go to to extremes, we chose the midway the way of true believers.
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Peace Rajah,
Firstly, this is what you said in an earlier post
He is Prophet and Messenger that makes him higher than those who are only messengers or only Prophets and than he is the Last Prophetic messenger among those who were both Prophets and messengers.
This is a statement made by YOU and anyone can see that YOU are making Prophet Muhammad higher than those who are only messengers. So anyone can see that you are clearly disobeying 2285, thus disobeying the teaching of Prophet Muhammad, thus disrespecting him. The above quoted statement is YOUR statement and not God's.
Please back up the claim that YOU made and show from the Qur'aan where Allah says that if a messenger is prophet AND messenger, then he is at a higher rank than only a messenger or only a prophet.
If you cannot back up this claim from the Qur'aan, then it is YOU who is making one messenger higher than another thus disobeying 2285, and disrespecting the Prophet by disobeying him.
Secondly, this is what Zenje asked you
Peace Ra-jah, here's a simple exercise;
Please post a verse from quran where the believers are asked to PRAISE prophet Muhammad.
Asking us to hold someone dearer is not asking us to praise that person. Similarly in none of the other verses you quoted does Allah ask/command/order believers or muslims to praise Prophet Muhammad.
In your lengthy post you have not posted a SINGLE verse in which believers or muslims are asked by Allah to PRAISE Prophet Muhammad. Once you post such a verse then the discussion can proceed further. It is a very simple request.
Thirdly, "Muhammad" meaning "praised one" does not mean that is an order from Allah to believers to praise Prophet Muhammad. An order to praise Prophet Muhammad would be something like "O believers, praise Muhammad morning and evening".
Lastly, consider the following verses
1649 And to God prostrate all those in the heavens and all those on the Earth, from the creatures as well as the angels, and they are not arrogant.
1650 They fear their Lord from above them, and they do what they are commanded.Prostrating to God is a good quality
Being not arrogant is a good quality
Doing what Allah commands is a good qualityThus Allah is PRAISING the creatures of the earth, does this mean it is an order for us to praise the creatures too ?
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Peace,
469
And whoever obeys God and the messenger will be among those whom God has blessed, from the prophets and the truthful and the martyrs and the upright. What an excellent companionship!
"How does the "Prophet Muhammad" obey the "Messenger Muhammad" and fall into the category of all those blessed by The God?
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Mr.Tanveer I guess we are entering a stage when arguments are over and sentiments come in, and that is the best time one backs up. Your post is a prove for that.
Thirdly, "Muhammad" meaning "praised one" does not mean that is an order from Allah to believers to praise Prophet Muhammad. An order to praise Prophet Muhammad would be something like "O believers, praise Muhammad morning and evening".
So Muhammad means "praised one" thanks God you agreed.
Well my friend you Cannot dictate Allah; but infact you (if you recite Quran), me, and all of us who recite Quran PRAISE MUHAMMAD day and NIGHT.If we can't see it than it is we who should open our eyes and minds.
Rajah wrote
Quran says about the messanger in the above verses
- He is Wise
- He is honorable
- He is good Judge
- He is truth ful
- He should be dearer to us more than of our relatives and finances.
What else do you call a Praise?
You have not yet shed light on this question niether Zenje has.
If Allah says my Prophet is "Praise worthy", "honorable" "good Judge" "truth ful" "Full of wisdom" "nur" etc. and we recite the Quran daily and praise the Prophet daily weather you or any one likes it or not.
That is for the one who recites Quran.Now for example if I say
O prophet, the truth ful, your the wise one and not we
Allah has praised you and so do we
You are honorable and praise worthy, and good judge
No one can deny it no matter how strong he has a grudgeWhat is wrong in this PRAISE of Prophet did I said any thing against Quran.
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Mr. Tanveer, Mr. Zenje all the wise one's, burnouts please pay attention to following verses
Progressive Muslims"
Such messengers, We have preferred some over others; some of them talked to God, and He raised some of them in rank, and We gave Jesus the son of Mary the proofs and We supported him with the holy spirit. And had God wished, the people after them would not have fought after the proofs had come to them, but they disputed, some of them believed and some of them disbelieved. Had God wished they would not have fought, but God does whatever He wishes. 2253These messengers; we blessed some of them more than others. For example, GOD spoke to one, and we raised some of them to higher ranks. And we gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles and supported him with the Holy Spirit. Had GOD willed, their followers would not have fought with each other, after the clear proofs had come to them. Instead, they disputed among themselves; some of them believed, and some disbelieved. Had GOD willed, they would not have fought. Everything is in accordance with GOD's will.
The entire Prophets, blessing and salute to Them; are equivalent in Prophet-Hood, each of them has been given this award permanently. But, among all the personalities, Almighty Allah caused some Prophets to excel upon others and near Almighty Allah their Degrees are higher than others.
Allah please Guide us to the straight path!
Please take away confusion from us!
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Peace Rajah,
I see that you still have not posted a SINGLE verse in which believers or muslims are asked by Allah to PRAISE Prophet Muhammad.
And you still have not given any verse that mentions that if a messenger is also a prophet, he becomes higher than only messenger or only prophet, thus proving that you disobeyed 2285, thus disrespecting Prophet Muhammad by disobeying his teaching. That is very hypocritical to disrespect and disobey the Prophet on one hand and then praising him, don't you think ?
And you still have not answered the following question posed to you
1649 And to God prostrate all those in the heavens and all those on the Earth, from the creatures as well as the angels, and they are not arrogant.
1650 They fear their Lord from above them, and they do what they are commanded.Prostrating to God is a good quality
Being not arrogant is a good quality
Doing what Allah commands is a good qualityThus Allah is PRAISING the creatures of the earth, does this mean it is an order for us to praise the creatures too ?
Finally, if I say "X says Y is very good", am I praising Y or just quoting X's statement ?
Reversing it, if I say "X says Y is very bad", am I condemning Y or just quoting X's statement ?Let us look at it in another way. If I write a book in which while referring to Y, one of the statements is "you are very good". Someone else reads that book aloud and quotes that statement by saying "you are very good", is that praising Y or just reading a book ?
Mr. Tanveer, Mr. Zenje all the wise one's, burnouts please pay attention to following verses
Progressive Muslims"
Such messengers, We have preferred some over others; some of them talked to God, and He raised some of them in rank, and We gave Jesus the son of Mary the proofs and We supported him with the holy spirit. And had God wished, the people after them would not have fought after the proofs had come to them, but they disputed, some of them believed and some of them disbelieved. Had God wished they would not have fought, but God does whatever He wishes. 2253These messengers; we blessed some of them more than others. For example, GOD spoke to one, and we raised some of them to higher ranks. And we gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles and supported him with the Holy Spirit. Had GOD willed, their followers would not have fought with each other, after the clear proofs had come to them. Instead, they disputed among themselves; some of them believed, and some disbelieved. Had GOD willed, they would not have fought. Everything is in accordance with GOD's will.
The entire Prophets, blessing and salute to Them; are equivalent in Prophet-Hood, each of them has been given this award permanently. But, among all the personalities, Almighty Allah caused some Prophets to excel upon others and near Almighty Allah their Degrees are higher than others.
Firstly, this actually is proof that if Allah does something, it does not automatically mean we can also do it, unless Allah clearly allows us to do it too.
Secondly, WHICH messengers did Allah prefer over others or bless more than others ?
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Tanveer
I see that you still have not posted a SINGLE verse in which believers or muslims are asked by Allah to PRAISE Prophet Muhammad.
Well done Mr. Tanveer bravo after all that stuff I posted.
Secondly, WHICH messengers did Allah prefer over others or bless more than others ?
brickwall brickwall
Oh Tanveer!
Don't be like Jews who asked what color of the calf should be?, how old should it be? etc etc.
Come to Allah
and
Love his messangers & Prophets. -
Peace Raj-ah,
He is Prophet and Messenger that makes him higher than those who are only messengers or only Prophets and than he is the Last Prophetic messenger among those who were both Prophets and messengers.
Waothkur fee alkitabi moosa innahu kana mukhlasan wakana rasoolan nabiyyan
019.051
YUSUFALI Also mention in the Book (the story of) Moses for he was specially chosen, and he was a messenger (and) a prophet.What's the difference first middle last?
003.144
YUSUFALI Muhammad is no more than a messenger many Were the messenger that passed away before him. If he died or were slain, will ye then Turn back on your heels? If any did turn back on his heels, not the least harm will he do to Allah; but Allah (on the other hand) will swiftly reward those who (serve Him) with gratitude. -
Peace be upon you,
The word "muhammadun" comes from "hamd". When we look at all of the occurences of this root in this book, we see the common thread of "exaltation" or "elevation" (but you must let go of the pre concieved idea of "praise" first).
Our journey throughout this message is one of ASCENDING, one of climbing the mountain. Our journey is to the God. All elevation (hamd) is to the God. The God is the Most High. We elevate ourselves by becoming more and more God-Like through purifying our subconcious(nafs).
The God is hameed (elevated/exalted)...and one who elevates thierself to God is "muhammad" (one who is elevated).
There is no one historical figure named "Muhammad" whom we must praise..."muhammad" is a concept for us to emulate..we all must strive to be "muhammad", not look for a historical figure to idolize.
Our highest potential is God, our lowest is animalistic (like apes and swine)...
(12) Elevate to The God, Lord of the Worlds
This is what we are asked to do. Transcend the animal and elevate to the God...We are God's and to God we must return. Let us stop looking to objects outside of our own Being to idolize and praise, instead let us continue to be more and more God-like in character.
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Peace Ra-jah,
English is such a tough language sometimes, I asked for a simple exercise I got a composition, not one sentence being what I asked for, but that's okay, in a way you answered my question, i.e. - You CANNOT come up with ONE VERSE where GOD asks the believers to PRAISE prophet Muhammad. handshakeInstead... )
Quran says about the messanger in the above verses
- He is Wise
- He is honorable
- He is good Judge
- He is truth ful
- He should be dearer to us more than of our relatives and finances.
What else do you call a Praise?
This...- Praise be to God who created the heavens and the Earth, and Who made darkness and light...
Simple and beautiful isn't it? )
How about this, I'll make the exercise a little easier for you, since you found such difficulty in the first one...
Please post ONE verse where God asks the believers to PRAISE ANY messenger.
Lets see how much "reciting" you've done to get this one. Here's a hint, if you can't come up with one, just admit it, we'll understand... really, we will. group
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Nun de plume
Peace Raj-ah,
Quote from Raj-ah on February 17, 2007, 023734 AM
He is Prophet and Messenger that makes him higher than those who are only messengers or only Prophets and than he is the Last Prophetic messenger among those who were both Prophets and messengers.Waothkur fee alkitabi moosa innahu kana mukhlasan wakana rasoolan nabiyyan
019.051
YUSUFALI Also mention in the Book (the story of) Moses for he was specially chosen, and he was a messenger (and) a prophet.You have quoted me and I have based my quote on following verse
These messengers; we blessed some of them more than others. For example, GOD spoke to one, and we raised some of them to higher ranks. And we gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles and supported him with the Holy Spirit. Had GOD willed, their followers would not have fought with each other, after the clear proofs had come to them. Instead, they disputed among themselves; some of them believed, and some disbelieved. Had GOD willed, they would not have fought. Everything is in accordance with GOD's will.Do you understand dear? or like the Wise one's you have some other translation for the above verse??
It is Allah who is saying that he has blessed some more than others and raised some of them to higher ranks.
Will you not believe then??YUSUFALI Muhammad is no more than a messenger many Were the messenger that passed away before him. If he died or were slain, will ye then Turn back on your heels? If any did turn back on his heels, not the least harm will he do to Allah; but Allah (on the other hand) will swiftly reward those who (serve Him) with gratitude
No doubt Muhammad is no more than a messenger in the eyes of Allah.
But Muhammad should be respected and loved as Allah has commanded. -
Idol free wrote
The God is hameed (elevated/exalted)...and one who elevates thierself to God is "muhammad" (one who is elevated).
There is no one historical figure named "Muhammad" whom we must praise..."muhammad" is a concept for us to emulate..we all must strive to be "muhammad", not look for a historical figure to idolize
Muhammad is a fact You cannot deny!
Muhammad is Praised by Allah in different verses and I have pointed out those verses, no matter what ever we say, when reciting those verses we automatically praise Muhammad!
and those who praise Muhammad do nothing against Quran, however if one calls Muhammad for help besides God is going against Quran, if one prays to Muhammad is going against Quran.I will like to have detail conversation with you on this later on.
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Maybe the second time is a charm...
Anyone....
469
And whoever obeys God and the messenger will be among those whom God has blessed, from the prophets and the truthful and the martyrs and the upright. What an excellent companionship!
How does "Prophet Muhammad" obey the "Messenger Muhammad" and fall into the category of all those blessed by The God?