Praise Be to Muhammad rasool Allah
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Peace Ra-jah,
Zenje
Please post ONE verse where God asks the believers to PRAISE ANY messenger.Please post ONE verse where God asks believers not to PRAISE MUhammad by Name
Am I the one who claimed that the prophet is to be praised?... ummm, no, therefore = burden of proof = you.
If there's no verse asking us to praise the messenger, but there IS a verse saying...
- And He is GOD, there is no god but He. To HIM belongs all praise in the first and in the last, and judgment belongs with Him, and to Him you will be returned.
I would have thought it was obvious, but I guess not. )
zeljko, you have a valid point. However, you're beating a dead horse. And that's why this is my last post on this thread.
Peace be with you. )
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Peace sis Honor,
Salam everyone~
Hmmm, I've been reading this and have some food for the thoughts...
381 And God took a covenant from the prophets "For what I have given you of the Scripture and wisdom, then a messenger will come to you authenticating what is with you. You will believe in him and support him." He said "Do you testify, and agree to this burden?", they said "We testify." He said "Then bear witness, and I am with you bearing witness."
384 Say "We believe in God and what was sent down to us and what was sent down to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Patriarchs, and what was given to Moses and Jesus and the prophets from their Lord. We do not make any distinction between them, and to Him we submit."
386 How can God guide a people who have rejected after believing, and they witnessed that the messenger is true, and the clarity had come to them? God does not guide the wicked people.
Maybe....just a thought, maybe we testify in our hearts and maybe shahada, that the messenger is true and the prophet for this quran, but we do not bare witness and pray or hold him above any other prophet by including him in prayers etc...
Just a thought
Honor
In 381 God is asking the prophets to testify and bear witness to the COVENANT, and not the messengership of a particular messenger. Note that in 381, the prophets are being asked to BELIEVE and SUPPORT the messenger, not testify the messengership. For an explanation as to which messenger is being referred to in this verse, please see the following post for an interesting understanding which makes total sense
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=10190.0
386 is not referring to witnessing messengership itself but witnessing whether a messenger is true or not, and how can we do that ? .... By witnessing for ourselves (verifying) the truth of the message brought by the messenger.
As to the messengership itself, we have not directly witnessed it and The God alone is enough as a witness of the messengership
4828 He is the One who sent His messenger with the guidance and the system of truth, so that it would expose all other systems. And God is sufficient as a witness.
479 Any good that befalls you is from God, and any bad that befalls you is from yourself. We have sent you as a messenger to the people and God is enough as a witness.
1343 And those who reject say "You are not a messenger." Say "God is sufficient as a witness between me and you, the One who has the knowledge of the Scripture."
If people testify or witness the messengership itself without having witnessed/seen it themselves, then they are giving a false testimony and thus become liars/hypocrites
631 When the hypocrites come to you they say "We bear witness that you are the messenger of God." And God knows that you are His messenger, and God bears witness that the hypocrites are liars.
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Salam Tanaveer,
Thank you for your interpretation. It is neccessary to show those ayats you listed to give clarification as to what the ayats I listed mean, as well as to show that it is not neccessary for us to bear witness to muhammad when believing in the words of the quran, the wisdom of the Quran,and the truth of Islam. I agree with you. I do believe its neccessary however to believe in Muhammad, his journey, his prophethood, and to not underestimate his importance. I do believe in him, and bear witness to god, that I do, in my heart and soul. Just as I bear witness to god, that I believe in him, as the one and only god, and that the Quran is our truth.
Honor
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honor wrote
I do believe its neccessary however to believe in Muhammad, his journey, his prophethood, and to not underestimate his importance. I do believe in him, and bear witness to god, that I do, in my heart and soul. Just as I bear witness to god, that I believe in him, as the one and only god, and that the Quran is our truth.
May God Bless You.
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Nun de plume
You have quoted me and I have based my quote on following verse
These messengers; we blessed some of them more than others. For example, GOD spoke to one, and we raised some of them to higher ranks. And we gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles and supported him with the Holy Spirit. Had GOD willed, their followers would not have fought with each other, after the clear proofs had come to them. Instead, they disputed among themselves; some of them believed, and some disbelieved. Had GOD willed, they would not have fought. Everything is in accordance with GOD's will.Do you understand dear? or like the Wise one's you have some other translation for the above verse??
It is Allah who is saying that he has blessed some more than others and raised some of them to higher ranks.
Will you not believe then??If God blessed you more than others (wealth, talent, wisdom, etc.) should we also praise you?
The answer is NO!
No doubt Muhammad is no more than a messenger in the eyes of Allah.
We are clearly told it should be in our eyes as well ? Qur?an does not contradict!
Do you understand now?
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Plume
If God blessed you more than others (wealth, talent, wisdom, etc.) should we also praise you?The answer is NO!
But he has not Chosen me as his messanger, and the above verse if you have time to read, instead of pointing out at me, it is talking about differeniating among Messangers and also reason is given in it.
Do you understand now?
No! not at all, at least by your logic!
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Plume
If God blessed you more than others (wealth, talent, wisdom, etc.) should we also praise you?The answer is NO!
But he has not Chosen me as his messanger, and the above verse if you have time to read, instead of pointing out at me, it is talking about differeniating among Messangers and also reason is given in it.
Peace Raj-ah,
Differentiating amongst Messengers only in blessings, miracles, talent, wisdom, etc. does not mean they are above being humans, same as certain people amongst us are blessed with talents, wealth, etc., does not mean they are any better than any other person for all are equal in that regard.
Otherwise, according to your logic, Qur?an contradicts and it never does!
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Al-Fatiha (The Opening, 7 verses)
1.1. IN THE NAME OF GOD, THE ALL-MERCIFUL, THE ALL-COMPASSIONATE
1.2. All praise and gratitude (whoever gives them to whomever for whatever reason and in whatever way from the first day of creation until eternity) are for God, the Lord of the worlds,
1.3. The All-Merciful, the All-Compassionate,
1.4. The Master of the Day of Judgment.
1.5. You alone do We worship and from You alone do we seek help.
1.6. Guide us to the Straight Path,
1.7. The Path of those whom You have favored, not of those who have incurred (Your) wrath (punishment and condemnation), nor of those who are astray.Peace!
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Plume
Otherwise, according to your logic, Qur?an contradicts and it never does!
Quran contradicts or not is another topic, we are talking about what Quran says. Yes your intentions are good You like all of us can't see contradictory Quran, but for that matter we can't change or ammend Quran according to our thoughts, which is being done here at this web site.
Much is said on that and more will just give arise to confusions, so let me post my final POst on the subject and conclude it then if you still have any confusion regarding Praise or Rank of Muhammad Rasool Allah, we will surely discuss it.
So far in those who oppose respecting Muhammad, only Mr. Tanveer and Idolfree came up with some arguments weak though but we will discuss them in concluding post.
I want to thank BOOST, Siki, honor and all others who participated and increased our knowldge and faith.
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Peace Rajah,
So far in those who oppose respecting Muhammad
I see how you are careless with your words. No wonder it is a problem for you understanding things !
For your info, I never opposed respecting any messenger. I was questioning praising a messenger when Allah is telling us that ALL PRAISE from humans is for Him only, and nowhere He has commanded for us to praise messengers.
You are the one who has disrespected the messenger by disobeying his message
He is Prophet and Messenger that makes him higher than those who are only messengers or only Prophets and than he is the Last Prophetic messenger among those who were both Prophets and messengers.
2285 The messenger believes in what was sent down to him from his Lord. And the believers, all who believe in God, and His angels, and His Scriptures, and His messengers "We do not differentiate between ANY of His messengers;" and they said "We hear and obey, forgive us O Lord, and to you is our destiny."
Where it says "the messenger believes in what was sent down to him from his Lord", does "messenger" refer to Prophet Muhammad or not ? If yes, then in the same verse we are being told not to differentiate between ANY of Allah's messengers. Does that exclude Prophet Muhammad ?
By saying what is underlined in your quote above, you have DISOBEYED Allah as per 2285. This is how you RESPECT the Messenger ? By DISOBEYING his message, thereby DISOBEYING him ?
This is a statement made by YOU and anyone can see that YOU are making Prophet Muhammad higher than those who are only messengers. So anyone can see that you are clearly disobeying 2285, thus disobeying the teaching of Prophet Muhammad, thus disrespecting him. The above quoted statement is YOUR statement and not God's.
Please back up the claim that YOU made and show from the Qur'aan where Allah says that if a messenger is prophet AND messenger, then he is at a higher rank than only a messenger or only a prophet.
If you cannot back up this claim from the Qur'aan, then it is YOU who is making one SPECIFIC messenger higher than another thus disobeying 2285, and disrespecting the Prophet by disobeying his message.
And you still have not given any verse that mentions that if a messenger is also a prophet, he becomes higher than only messenger or only prophet, thus proving that you disobeyed 2285, thus disrespecting Prophet Muhammad by disobeying his teaching. That is very hypocritical to disrespect and disobey the Prophet on one hand and then praise him, don't you think ?
On top of that you accuse others of opposing respecting Muhammad ?
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First let us find out what Quran tells us about the ranks of Prophets
These messengers; we blessed some of them more than others. For example, GOD spoke to one, and we raised some of them to higher ranks. And we gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles and supported him with the Holy Spirit. Had GOD willed, their followers would not have fought with each other, after the clear proofs had come to them. Instead, they disputed among themselves; some of them believed, and some disbelieved. Had GOD willed, they would not have fought. Everything is in accordance with GOD's will.
We come to know through these Ayats
- Allah has Blessed some of the Messangers more than others.
- Allah has raised some of them to higher ranks.
- Every thing is in accordance to Allah's will.
The messenger has believed in what was sent down to him from his Lord, and so did the believers. They believe in GOD, His angels, His scripture, and His messengers "We make no distinction among any of His messengers." They say, "We hear, and we obey. Forgive us, our Lord. To You is the ultimate destiny."
- Shall make no distinction among any of his messangers.
- Shall believe in God, scripture, angels and messangers.
I actually make no distinction among my Kids, I do not make distinction among my parents, but offcourse some of my kids are better than others and on higher ranks than others in thier fields and May be Mom is more blessed then my Father.
Similarly I am not making a distinction among the messangers according to the Command of Allah but among these Messangers some are more blessed and some are higher in the ranks according to the command of Allah.Therefore Among the messangers of Allah some are more blessed and some have higher ranks but "We" should not make any distinction among them.
Now when established that some are higher in ranks and more blessed then others, we want to know how?
Allah tells us
- He spoke to One
- He raised One to the higher rank
- He gave Miracles to Son of Marry.
He spoke to one Yes he is Moses.
Profound Miracles Yes he is Jesus.Raised one to higher ranks
And from the night you shall mediate upon it as you please, perhaps your Lord would grant you to a high rank.
Common Sense
Is a prophet who was sent to guide 1,000 people equal to one who sent to guide 30,000 people, or to one sent to guide all of humanity? Let's take an example. Is the teacher of first-grade students equal to a teacher of fourth-grade students? Are the teachers of higher classes equal to professors or university teachers? All belong to the same administration and work under the same general program, their aim being to educate students. Yet, in view of the teacher's knowledge, they are not equal. Each is different from the other according to his learning, ability, and achievement. From the point of view of the aim of prophethood, all the prophets of Allah are equal. However, because of differences in rank and knowledge, they are different.Allah confirms this messangers higher rank by stating
And We have not sent you except as a mercy to the worlds.Mercy to the Worlds.
Allah Ho Akbar.
Up to here any confusion? please welcome!
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I was questioning praising a messenger when Allah is telling us that ALL PRAISE from humans is for Him only, and nowhere He has commanded for us to praise messengers.
Patience Tanveer sahib! we are coming to the praise meanwhile if you have any comments on my previous post?
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Peace Rajah,
I see that you have disregarded my question to you multiple times and have blatantly disrespected Prophet Muhammad as explained in my previous post, so how can you expect me to reply to your post ? Unless you quote the relevant verses to back up your claims as I and others have requested you multiple times, it is futile to hold any meaningful discussion with you on this issue. Au revoir !
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First let us find out what Quran tells us about the ranks of Prophets
These messengers; we blessed some of them more than others. For example, GOD spoke to one, and we raised some of them to higher ranks. And we gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles and supported him with the Holy Spirit. Had GOD willed, their followers would not have fought with each other, after the clear proofs had come to them. Instead, they disputed among themselves; some of them believed, and some disbelieved. Had GOD willed, they would not have fought. Everything is in accordance with GOD's will.
We come to know through these Ayats
- Allah has Blessed some of the Messangers more than others.
- Allah has raised some of them to higher ranks.
- Every thing is in accordance to Allah's will.
The messenger has believed in what was sent down to him from his Lord, and so did the believers. They believe in GOD, His angels, His scripture, and His messengers "We make no distinction among any of His messengers." They say, "We hear, and we obey. Forgive us, our Lord. To You is the ultimate destiny."
- Shall make no distinction among any of his messangers.
- Shall believe in God, scripture, angels and messangers.
Raised one to higher ranks
And from the night you shall mediate upon it as you please, perhaps your Lord would grant you to a high rank.
Up to here any confusion? please welcome!
Peace Raj-ah,
No confusion or contradiction with above ? however?
Plume
Quran contradicts or not is another topic, we are talking about what Quran says. Yes your intentions are good You like all of us can't see contradictory Quran, but for that matter we can't change or ammend Quran according to our thoughts, which is being done here at this web site.Topic Praise Be to Muhammad rasool Allah
Qur?an Alhamdu lillahi rabbi alAAalameena
12 Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds;
http//www.islamicity.com/ps/default.asp?inc=PhoneticSearch.asp
Following (27) reference(s) seem to be matching with the phonetics of your query "ALHAMDU"
Al-Fatiha (The Opening) >
Al-An'am (The Cattle) >
Al-A'raf (The Heights) >
Yunus>
Ibrahim (Abraham)>
An-Nahl (The Bee)>
Al-Isra (The Journey by Night)>
Al-Kahf (The Cave)>
Al-Mu'minun (The Believers)
An-Naml (The Ants)
Al-Qasas (The Narration)
Al-'Ankabut (The Spider)
Ar-Rum (The Romans)
Luqman (Luqman)
Saba' (Sheba)
Fatir (The Originator of Creation)
As-Saffat (The Rangers)
Az-Zumar (The Groups)
Ghafir (The Forgiver)
Al-Jathiya (The Kneeling)
At-Taghabun (Loss and Gain)
All praises mentioned in Qur?an are only for Allah!
Peace
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Salaamun alaykum
I referenced some Verses of the Quran to Raj-ah but obviously he is Not Intersested , he even Labelled me an Ismaili whatever that means.
Raj-ah ...Please Continue on to worship Prophet Muhammad It is your Prerogative.
Raj-ah.... God also Talked to Musa's Mother, did that make Musa's Mother a Prophet/Messenger/Warner ?
Rajah..... God spoke to Jeses' Mother as well , did that make Mary/Maryam a Prophet?Messenger ?
Raj-ah....God appointed Ibrahim Imam to the whole mankind ( How come you are not worshipping him )? you are very smart for a Muhammadan so find the corresponding Verses yourself.
if Muhammad was so Great in comparison to all other Prophets/Messengers/Warners , How come God barely mentioned him by name ? ( 4 x ) make that 5x if you counted "Ahmad". Musa was mentioned by name No Less than 175 Times and Ibrahim 76 times why not Praise them as well as you Praise Prophet Muhammad ?
By the way, you can call me Ismaili, Jew, kafir or whatever you like as for me God is sufficient as Witness to what I believe and Practise .
Thank you
almarhom
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Brother Raja
I do understand that God raised some to higher ranks. only he knows who has performed the best , the divine wisdom behind not telling us about those (whom he has raised to higher ranks) is precisely what we must undersatand. he does not want us to make comparisons , differentiate and hence praise or worship some individuals. i appreciate your love for Mohammad (pbuh)
but brother! it is a little misguided.
peace
sikandar -
Since reasonable time has been passed, and No opposing comment was posted, therefore i take it for granted that we all agree that Allah has blessed some messangers more than others and has raised the ranks of some more than others.
Before we move on further
siki wrote
....he does not want us to make comparisons , differentiate and hence praise or worship some individuals.
i appreciate your love for Mohammad (pbuh)
but brother! it is a little misguided.
peace
sikandarPraising and worshipping are two different acts, completely different!
Regarding praising Muhammad we are discussing it and I have not yet completed, Regarding Worshipping Muhammad, No WAY!, you brother have got it wrong if you got any impressions from my posts that we or I worship or should worship Muhammad.
Any way thanks for your input.almarhoom wrote
I referenced some Verses of the Quran to Raj-ah but obviously he is Not Intersested , he even Labelled me an Ismaili whatever that means
Becuase those verses does not say that I should not praise Muhammad, infact I presented many verses in which Allah praises Muhammad, and automatically when we recite Quran we Praise Muhammad.
I did not labelled you, I just said that spirtual Salat is what is performed by ISmailis and you do the same, therefore if you are ISmaili why not say so?
Raj-ah ...Please Continue on to worship Prophet Muhammad It is your Prerogative
.I do not worship any besides Allah!
Raj-ah.... God also Talked to Musa's Mother, did that make Musa's Mother a Prophet/Messenger/Warner ?
No!
Rajah..... God spoke to Jeses' Mother as well , did that make Mary/Maryam a Prophet?Messenger ?
No!
Raj-ah....God appointed Ibrahim Imam to the whole mankind ( How come you are not worshipping him )?
I prasie Ibrahim as Allah Praises him too. I donot worship any besides Allah.
if Muhammad was so Great in comparison to all other Prophets/Messengers/Warners , How come God barely mentioned him by name ? ( 4 x ) make that 5x if you counted "Ahmad". Musa was mentioned by name No Less than 175 Times and Ibrahim 76 times why not Praise them as well as you Praise Prophet Muhammad ?
Now this question in itself is a fallecy, Judging any one's importance due to number of times name appeared in Quran? '(
but
I surely Praise them all and Respect them all for whom Allah has asked for but the criteria definitly is not number of times name appeared.Allah ho Akbar.
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Now when it has been established that some of messangers are more blessed and higher in ranks than other, now let us see why did I said that "I think that Muhammad is higher than others in eyes of Allah"
First I will repeat the argument posted in one of my previous post
Is a prophet who was sent to guide 1,000 people equal to one who sent to guide 30,000 people, or to one sent to guide all of humanity? Let's take an example. Is the teacher of first-grade students equal to a teacher of fourth-grade students? Are the teachers of higher classes equal to professors or university teachers? All belong to the same administration and work under the same general program, their aim being to educate students. Yet, in view of the teacher's knowledge, they are not equal. Each is different from the other according to his learning, ability, and achievement. From the point of view of the aim of prophethood, all the prophets of Allah are equal. However, because of differences in rank and knowledge, they are different.
Now to back up this claim from Quran
O you who believe, do not place your opinion above that of GOD and His messenger. You shall reverence GOD. GOD is Hearer, Omniscient.
O you who believe, do not raise your voices above the voice of the prophet, nor shall you shout at him as you shout at each other, lest your works become nullified while you do not perceive.
Surely, those who lower their voices at the messenger of GOD are the ones whose hearts are prepared by GOD to become righteous. They have deserved forgiveness and a great recompense.
So do you understand What is the Place of Muhammad in eyes of Allah!
Some may say that these verses are for that time and not for now, Ok even than
It means that for the people at time of Muhammad it was the part of their FAITH as it is commanded by Allah to obey, Love and Praise Muhammad.- It says those who believe do not place your opnion above that of Allah and Muhammad.
Some may say that opnion of Muhammad is Quran and nothing besides it, now if that is SO then why Allah said mine and Muhammad's, therefore emphasising on Muhammad specifically tells us something to ponder upon.
And We have sent you not except as a mercy for all the worlds. (21107)
Mercy for all the worlds is attribute of Allah!
Now just for a minute think over it
IF Allah (remember it is Allah and the Book is Quran not some X talking to Y or ABC) calls some one "MERCI FOR ALL THE WORLDS" is this not PRAISE?
and now when i RECITE these verses "Muhammad Allah has send you as a Mercy for all the worlds" is this not Praising Muhammad?
I have not came across with any other verse in Quran for any other Messanger where Allah calls him "MERCY for ALL the WORLDS" if any of you have please post it.
Say "If your fathers, and your sons, and your brothers, and your wives, and your clan, and money which you have gathered, and a trade which you would fear if it declines, and homes which you find pleasing; if these are dearer to you than God and His messenger and striving in the cause of God, then wait until God brings His decision. God does not guide the wicked people."924
Very Clear indeed that his Messanger should be dearer to you than every thing.
So that you may believe in God and His messenger, and that you may support Him, honour Him, and glorify Him, morning and night.489
Very Important VErse any comments on this Verse??And obey God and obey the messenger so that you may obtain mercy. 3132
And it befits not a believing man or a believing woman, when Allah and His (Prophetic) Messenger have decided a matter (for them), that they should (after that) claim any choice in their matter; and whoso disobeys Allah and His (Prophetic) Messenger, he surely goes astray in manifest error. (3336)
He is the One who sent His messenger with the guidance and the religion of truth, to make it prevail over all other religions. GOD suffices as a witness4828
I can go on and on but will like to take a break here
as 4828 clearly establishes his highness over others, it is not that all the other religons of Allah were wrong but they were corrupted as the time passed because they were not for all the Worlds they were for limited time limited people.
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Salam Rajaaah
I read you thread of praising Prophet as you mentioned it in another thread??..I decided to answer you here.
Before I get into any discussion could you please tell me how is it possible that based on your interpretation of 3356 which means God and Angels bless Prophet, God would ask human being and the other creatures/angels bless the Prophet too? Don?t we believe that blessing only comes from God and no other creatures are able in doing so and if we believe in that then we commit idolatry?A simple example, can you bless your father or mother? Do you have such a power?
Do angels have such a Power?And sorry for answering you late.
Peace