Trouble understanding 3:175
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Peace "maxq",
If anything, I do not feel fear of God... I submit to His Word while being at peace. No fear involved whatsoever. What is the point of submitting with fear?
JK- Ok lemme ask you this way. Do you experience fear? Naturally every human fears something. It is not possible that a human become entirely fearless unless certain neural regions of his brain are destroyed which in return by definition would take away his humanity. Now since actually GOD is controlling everything He asks us to redirect that fear intentionally towards Him. Eg a dog is barking infront of me ready to attack. Im not supposed to fear the dog, a finite being infront of me. Im supposed to fear GOD who is controlling everything including the dog, the environment etc. GOD Bless!
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I kind of see your point, but perhaps because I do not understand Islam that way... Islam is for my benefit, so why fear Him Who is giving me something I can benefit from?
Peace "maxq",
JK- Ok lemme ask you this way. Do you experience fear? Naturally every human fears something. It is not possible that a human become entirely fearless unless certain neural regions of his brain are destroyed which in return by definition would take away his humanity. Now since actually GOD is controlling everything He asks us to redirect that fear intentionally towards Him. Eg a dog is barking infront of me ready to attack. Im not supposed to fear the dog, a finite being infront of me. Im supposed to fear GOD who is controlling everything including the dog, the environment etc. GOD Bless!
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peace
are you basing the word "fear" of God on the arabic word "taqwa" of God?
umm sara
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Peace "maxq",
I kind of see your point, but perhaps because I do not understand Islam that way... Islam is for my benefit, so why fear Him Who is giving me something I can benefit from?
JK- Then i guess you should fear nothing at all. We have fear in our system by nature and we must direct it somewhere. GOD can also destroy anyone at any moment through earthquakes, car accidents, one slipping and banging his head so hard that hed die, a wild animal, etc. So the fear aspect is definitely there and should be directed towards GOD not those things. Thats the point. GOD Bless!
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Peace "Mwisdom",JK- No on the term "yuKHAAF". GOD Bless!
I have not come across a term in the Quran that points to khaaf-il-Lah ... rather, you have khashiyat-il-Lah which is different.
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Also, I am in awe of God and his capability... if you call that fear of God, then so be it )
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Peace,
Request you to add this verse too to the discusssion.
3337
And you said to the one who was blessed by God, and blessed by you "Keep your wife and reverence God," and you hid inside yourself what God wished to proclaim. And you feared the people, while it was God you were supposed to fear. So when Zayd ended his relationship with his wife, We had you marry her, to establish that there is no wrongdoing for the believers in marrying the wives of their adopted sons if their relationship is ended. And God's command is always done.Hope it adds some perspective.
We are required to fear God alone.
Peace
Ahmed
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takhshannaasa is not the same as takhfaannaasa ...
antakhshahuu does not mean antakhfahuu...
Kh Sh Y - to "fear" with reverence/veneration/honour/awe
Kh F F - to be agitated or excited by reason of fear and anger
Peace,
Request you to add this verse too to the discusssion.
3337
And you said to the one who was blessed by God, and blessed by you "Keep your wife and reverence God," and you hid inside yourself what God wished to proclaim. And you feared the people, while it was God you were supposed to fear. So when Zayd ended his relationship with his wife, We had you marry her, to establish that there is no wrongdoing for the believers in marrying the wives of their adopted sons if their relationship is ended. And God's command is always done.Hope it adds some perspective.
We are required to fear God alone.
Peace
Ahmed
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I have not come across a term in the Quran that points to khaaf-il-Lah ... rather, you have khashiyat-il-Lah which is different.
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Also, I am in awe of God and his capability... if you call that fear of God, then so be it
Here is one for you
And remember your Lord within yourself humbly and fearing and in a voice not loud in the morning and the evening and be not of the heedless ones.
(205)
-> Clearly it is an order from Allah to " ", i.e. "And remember your Lord within yourself humbly and fearing "
Therefore you need to re-evaluate your understanding
Salam
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Ahmad, I do think you have a point but I do not think this implies fearing Allah...
The main point here is that you have to cross-reference this with the following
5016 Now indeed, it is We Who have created man and We know the whispering that goes on within his mind (all the intricacies of his thought process), for, We are nearer to him than his Vena cava.
5017 And so it may happen that two conflicting demands in his mind, sitting in opposite directions, pull him apart. (His reason, and his emotions 5021).Connect with
And remember your Lord within yourself, in humility and "kheefata" (kheefata what? what may cause you to not hear or be totally deaf to that thzikr? correlate with 5017); and without loudness in words (which means do not boast to others or show off, that you are doing thzikr), during the morning and the evening. And do not be of the !!!!careless ones!!!! (what are we to not be careless about?)
The fear can only be driven to make sure or be aprehensive to what you are whispering to yourself. And that your ego might blind you and you have to be aprehensive or to keep it under check.
Sorry, but to me, submitting to God in fear is no less than saying "God is a tyrant". I have never come across the term khafiyatillah in the quran. If you have, let me know.
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Ahmad, I do think you have a point but I do not think this implies fearing Allah...
Actually I dont think that fearing mentioned above is about fearing Him, rather fearing His punishment, there are many verses that incline that
however I still accept that it means fearing Him indirectly, because the punishment will be caused by Him
The main point here is that you have to cross-reference this with the following
5016 Now indeed, it is We Who have created man and We know the whispering that goes on within his mind (all the intricacies of his thought process), for, We are nearer to him than his Vena cava.
5017 And so it may happen that two conflicting demands in his mind, sitting in opposite directions, pull him apart. (His reason, and his emotions 5021).Connect with
And remember your Lord within yourself, in humility and "kheefata" (kheefata what? what may cause you to not hear or be totally deaf to that thzikr? correlate with 5017); and without loudness in words (which means do not boast to others or show off, that you are doing thzikr), during the morning and the evening. And do not be of the !!!!careless ones!!!! (what are we to not be careless about?)
I believe it is all about the punishment of Allah
The fear can only be driven to make sure or be aprehensive to what you are whispering to yourself. And that your ego might blind you and you have to be aprehensive or to keep it under check.
Look, I'm not willing to look at the matter psychologically, I look at it simply
firstly we need to fear His punishment and I will show numerous verses later
and because His punishment is caused by Him, then it is not a violation to fear Him
I accept both
Sorry, but to me, submitting to God in fear is no less than saying "God is a tyrant". I have never come across the term khafiyatillah in the quran. If you have, let me know.
It is you actually who is wrongly linking the fear to the submission,
the fear is from Allah punishment even after you submit because you will still commit sins that has to be penalised, do you get my point?, I will prove it lateron inshallah using the Quran
Salam
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Hello
Let?s look at a few verses
And those who join that which Allah has bidden to be joined and have awe of their Lord and fear the evil reckoning.
(21)
-> The above about the believers that they fear the evil reckoning., that reckoning is caused by Allah, it is not like an automatic thing, the reckoning can either be hard or easy, we just don?t know, it is up to Allah, i.e. we really fear Him as we fear His reckoning
Here is another description of the believers
Those whom they call upon, themselves seek the means of access to their Lord-- whoever of them is nearest-- and they hope for His mercy and fear His chastisement; surely the chastisement of your Lord is a thing to be cautious of.
(57)
-> See how they fear His chastisement, i.e. caused by HIM, so I reality we should be fearing Him because He may not forgive our sins that must be punished, right?
Another description about the believers
They fulfill vows and fear a day the evil of which shall be spreading far and wide.
(7)
-> They also fear a day the evil of which shall be spreading far and wide., the judgment day of course, again it is not like they fear A DAY, rather they should fear what is going to happen on that day and sure what is going to happen is going be caused by Allah only, i.e. in reality the should be feari9ng Allah Himself not the Day
Here is something that should make it clear for you, the angels should have nothing to fear according to your logic, sounds right if we consider that the angels have no freewill, as well they will never receive any punishment or a horrible day will be forced on them, yet we read Allah is telling us about them that the angels fear Him
49- And whatever creature that is in the heavens and that is in the earth makes obeisance to Allah (only), and the angels (too) and they do not show pride.
50- They fear their Lord above them and do what they are commanded.(49)
(50)-> Now I ask you, why the angels fear their Lord above them and do what they are commanded?
Clearly fearing Allah is mutual for a believer because a believer knows well that Allah can do anything to him/her without having the ability to question Him or defend the self.
Even in 3175, the order was clear that we should fear Him, it is actually a complex grammar rule that may cause confusion to many who are not aware of it, the last letter Ya in order verbs must be omitted based on few rules, you may see it there due to some other words that preceded the order verbs like An for example but that is rare, most of the times you will see the order verbs having the last Ya omitted, let me clear it a bit
If I tell a group to people to fear me then it may be said like this
Khafooni
However under most conditions in most sentences the above is wrong, it has to be
Khafoon
See, the last letter Ya is omitted, however when we break the sentence or try to perform Iraab, we have to state that the There is an omitted Ya and is referring to Allah
Here is an example, for the order verb Ubudooni, you will clearly see that the last letter Ya is omitted and it became Ubudoon
And We did not send before you any messenger but We revealed to him that there is no god but Me, therefore serve Me.
(25)
-> See, , without a Ya at the end
Same seen below
Surely this Islam is your religion, one religion (only), and I am your Lord, therefore serve Me.
(92)
I.e. in 3175 the order is Khafooni with an omitted Ya, i.e. FEAR ME, exactly as the angels are fearing Him
Salam
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Actually I dont think that fearing mentioned above is about fearing Him, rather fearing His punishment, there are many verses that incline that
Good so we have agreement... His punishment in my opinion is based on a criterion, which does not include "fearing" Him, but rather seeing Him with Reverence and Awe and by doing good and not evil, and by not setting idols beside Him.
Fear of His Chastisement is practical through being aware of your "dark" side, and to keep it in check... and to dread what might happen if you succomb to it.
Now do you see my point?
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Good so we have agreement... His punishment in my opinion is based on a criterion, which does not include "fearing" Him, but rather seeing Him with Reverence and Awe and by doing good and not evil, and by not setting idols beside Him.
Fear of His Chastisement is practical through being aware of your "dark" side, and to keep it in check... and to dread what might happen if you succomb to it.
Now do you see my point?
And how about the angels that are fearing Him while they know that they should never be punished
actually I have to rephrashe what I said again
fearing Allah means fearing His punishment and fearing Him persoanlly even if there is no punishment exactly as the angels are fearing Him
Salam
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Peace all,
I am with Ahmed on this one !
Cheers
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Peace Brother Ahmed,
I'm so glad to see that you're back, as I had just read your "goodbye" thread. Being new to Islam (@ 2 yrs.), I appreciate and value your input. I find the topic of "fearing" Allah and/or His punishment very interesting as I personally tend to "freeze-up" and find myself somewhat immobolized by the thought of it. In fact, I sometimes wonder if the word "fear" hasn't been mistranslated from the Arabic. I notice and quote some of your words on the matter
"Look, I'M NOT WILLING TO LOOK AT THE MATTER PSYCHOLOGICALLY, I look at it simply firstly we need to fear His punishment and I will show numerous verses later and because His punishment is caused by Him, then it is not a violation to fear Him I accept both"
The following is a quote that explains my understanding of the consequences of fear. I only intend to open a dialogue regarding the importance of love, and in no way mean disrespect
"Fear keeps alcoholics drinking, addicts addicted, and the average person from even being interested in psychology. In fearing the dark truth of the human psyche one never gets to feel the true joy of real light. Because, after all, the light of good psychotherapy illuminates the dark that we all fear and shows it for what it is. So there you are, in full irony in your fear of the dark, you end up fearing love itself."
Additionally, I'd just like to mention how grateful I am to God for the opportunity given us brothers and sisters to come together and discuss Him, with the intention of pleasing Him, God willing.
Much peace and love to you Ahmed. And again, thank you for being here.
lilyfleur