Athan....Iqama??
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Salam Aleikum,
Question considering the 5 times for prayer is dawn, noon, afternoon,night and sunset. How exactly do I know when that time has passed, and what is Athan, and Iqama mean exactly?
For example if noon prayer on February 15th has Athan at 1225 to Iqama of 1230, does that mean I have only from athan to iqama to make noon prayer?
Or do I have from Iqama of noon prayer to Athan of Afternoon prayer?
Its all so confusing ???
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For example if noon prayer on February 15th has Athan at 1225 to Iqama of 1230, does that mean I have only from athan to iqama to make noon prayer?Nah... as far as I know Iqama I think it means gather up or come to.. (I might be wrong) So it's for those who are present to come up and pray.
Your prayer isn't restricted from Iqama it becomes late when the next prayer "athans" the only restriction I know according to the sunnis would be in terms of asr prayer (the one before sunset) depending on the direction of the sun you can't pray at certain times well not that you can't but its better not to.. because in some hadiths there was mentioning of people who used to worship the sun.. anyway also in fajr prayer the one before sun comes up in the morning, if the sun comes up it would be considered late.
hmm I think athan means call..My arabic is rusty sorry -[
hope that helped some way
salam
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Peace honor,
All this time I was under the impression that you did not follow hadeeth contradicting the Qur'aan, unless you have Qur'aanic proof of 5 times salat !
According to my research, the obligatory salat is only two times a day per the Qur'aan dawn salat (salat al-fajr) and dusk salat (salat al-isha). For individual salat there is no need for "athan" (please note that the word "athan" is nowhere used in reference to salat in the Qur'aan). The call is useful only for congregational salat.
The time of the dawn salat is anytime from onset of dawn to before sunrise and the dusk salat is from sunset to onset of complete darkness. Please see the following links for proof of two time salat from the Qur'aan
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12200.msg92976#msg92976
http//free-minds.org/articles/quranic/salat2.htm
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7727.0 (for a detailed discussion on "salat al-wusta"
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9110.msg107691#msg107691
One can perform additional salat (naafilah) if one likes for extra credit, which is optional
1779 And from the night awake for it additionally (naafilatan) for yourself, perhaps your Lord would grant you to a high rank.
Please see the following links for very interesting info on where the "5 times" came from, and how corruptions crept into "salat" and how muslims "lost" the salat
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=10099.0
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8250.0
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7992.0
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9226.0
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7918.msg15417#msg15417
The hadeeth writers were mostly zoroastrian converts (Iranians) and they merged the belief and practices of zoroastrianism with the islam and corrupted it.
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Peace honor,
All this time I was under the impression that you did not follow hadeeth contradicting the Qur'aan, unless you have Qur'aanic proof of 5 times salat !
According to my research, the obligatory salat is only two times a day per the Qur'aan dawn salat (salat al-fajr) and dusk salat (salat al-isha). For individual salat there is no need for "athan" (please note that the word "athan" is nowhere used in reference to salat in the Qur'aan). The call is useful only for congregational salat.
The time of the dawn salat is anytime from onset of dawn to before sunrise and the dusk salat is from sunset to onset of complete darkness. Please see the following links for proof of two time salat from the Qur'aan
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12200.msg92976#msg92976
http//free-minds.org/articles/quranic/salat2.htm
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7727.0 (for a detailed discussion on "salat al-wusta"
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9110.msg107691#msg107691
One can perform additional salat (naafilah) if one likes for extra credit, which is optional
1779 And from the night awake for it additionally (naafilatan) for yourself, perhaps your Lord would grant you to a high rank.
Please see the following links for very interesting info on where the "5 times" came from, and how corruptions crept into "salat" and how muslims "lost" the salat
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=10099.0
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8250.0
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7992.0
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9226.0
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7918.msg15417#msg15417
The hadeeth writers were mostly zoroastrian converts (Iranians) and they merged the belief and practices of zoroastrianism with the islam and corrupted it.
I dont follow hadiths, thats why I wanted to know, if Athan and Iqama, were in the Quran, and were set times of prayer. I am not sure I agree with you on only two prayers, I do believe that their are 5 prayers mandatory,...this is my thought though...
The Dawn Prayer given in 11114, 2458
The Noon Prayer given in 1778 and 3018
The Afternoon Prayer given in 2238
The sunset Prayer given in 11114
The Night Prayer given in 2458Thanks for your sites, I will look into them.
Honor
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Peace honor,
Looks like you are not familiar with the qur'aanic daytime and night, that the qur'aanic daytime starts from onset of dawn and lasts till darkness of night and the qur'aanic night starts from sunset and lasts until sunrise, so at dawn and dusk they overlap
http//free-minds.org/articles/science/quranic.htm
There are only 2 verses that give timing of salat 11114 and 1778 and both talk about the same times of dawn and dusk in a different way.
Please note that in 1778 it says SALAT and not SALAWAT, so when it says uphold salat from ..... to ....., there is only one salat in that time period, and that time goes all the way to darkness of night so it is not referring to "noon" salat. It can be referring only to one salat in that time and not "noon" and "asr" and "evening" ! If it refers to 3 salat in that time period then why not 6 salat in that same time period ? Why not 10 in the same time period ?
Please note that in 11114 it says NEAR PARTS of the night and not NEAR PART (zulafan is plural). How many salat will be near PARTS ? 2,3,4,5,6, or more ?
Per 20130, a day can have 3 or more edges (atraf is plural and in Arabic means 3 or more). WHICH TWO EDGES OF THE DAY IS ALLAH TALKING ABOUT IN 11114 PER YOUR UNDERSTANDING AND WHY ? "Wa" in Arabic does not always separate two different things but also separates attributes of the same thing or explanation of the preceding subject. Thus 11114 is talking about those two edges of the day that are near the night i.e. dawn and dusk.
Kindly explain how many salat are referred to in 11114 ? According to your understanding I am coming at a total of 2 salat at the two edges of the day (still not knowing which two edges), and an infinite number of salat in the near PARTS of the night (how many parts ?), excluding the so called "noon" and "asr" !
2238 is not referring to a particular salat by the name of "middle" salat but is referring to the "best/balanced" salat. If it is the "middle" salat, then DID ALLAH FORGET TO TELL WHICH SALAT IS THE FIRST SALAT ? HOW DO YOU DETERMINE WHICH ONE IS MIDDLE ? WHICH SALAT IS ALLAH REFERRING TO AS MIDDLE ? DID ALLAH FORGET TO TELL US THAT ?
Why is "asr" the middle salat ? Did Allah say that "fajr" is the FIRST salat ? If Allah has not given us a starting point as to which is the first salat then how can we determine the "middle" salat ? I can arbitrarily say that the so called "maghrib" salat is the first salat, that would make "fajr" as the "middle" one then, if there are 5 salats ! But then how will you justify "asr" salat then ?? !!
In 2458 Allah mentions salat al-isha; did He forget to tell us what time it is supposed to be upheld, if it is a salat other than dusk salat ? Isha means evening also and includes dusk. Dusk is included in the qur'aanic night and 11114 and 1778 both refer to only one dusk salat which is at one edge of the day, the one near the near part of the night. The other edge, the one near the other near part of the night is dawn.
3018 does not refer to salat but to God's praise. Praise of Allah can be done during the salat as well as outside salat. The fact remains that 3018 DOES NOT REFER TO SALAT.
Please read the articles and the posts at the links I quoted which explain all this.
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Peace honor,
Looks like you are not familiar with the qur'aanic daytime and night, that the qur'aanic daytime starts from onset of dawn and lasts till darkness of night and the qur'aanic night starts from sunset and lasts until sunrise, so at dawn and dusk they overlap
http//free-minds.org/articles/science/quranic.htm
There are only 2 verses that give timing of salat 11114 and 1778 and both talk about the same times of dawn and dusk in a different way.
Please note that in 1778 it says SALAT and not SALAWAT, so when it says uphold salat from ..... to ....., there is only one salat in that time period, and that time goes all the way to darkness of night so it is not referring to "noon" salat. It can be referring only to one salat in that time and not "noon" and "asr" and "evening" ! If it refers to 3 salat in that time period then why not 6 salat in that same time period ? Why not 10 in the same time period ?
Please note that in 11114 it says NEAR PARTS of the night and not NEAR PART (zulafan is plural). How many salat will be near PARTS ? 2,3,4,5,6, or more ?
Per 20130, a day can have 3 or more edges (atraf is plural and in Arabic means 3 or more). WHICH TWO EDGES OF THE DAY IS ALLAH TALKING ABOUT IN 11114 PER YOUR UNDERSTANDING AND WHY ? "Wa" in Arabic does not always separate two different things but also separates attributes of the same thing or explanation of the preceding subject. Thus 11114 is talking about those two edges of the day that are near the night i.e. dawn and dusk.
Kindly explain how many salat are referred to in 11114 ? According to your understanding I am coming at a total of 2 salat at the two edges of the day (still not knowing which two edges), and an infinite number of salat in the near PARTS of the night (how many parts ?), excluding the so called "noon" and "asr" !
2238 is not referring to a particular salat by the name of "middle" salat but is referring to the "best/balanced" salat. If it is the "middle" salat, then DID ALLAH FORGET TO TELL WHICH SALAT IS THE FIRST SALAT ? HOW DO YOU DETERMINE WHICH ONE IS MIDDLE ? WHICH SALAT IS ALLAH REFERRING TO AS MIDDLE ? DID ALLAH FORGET TO TELL US THAT ?
Why is "asr" the middle salat ? Did Allah say that "fajr" is the FIRST salat ? If Allah has not given us a starting point as to which is the first salat then how can we determine the "middle" salat ? I can arbitrarily say that the so called "maghrib" salat is the first salat, that would make "fajr" as the "middle" one then, if there are 5 salats ! But then how will you justify "asr" salat then ?? !!
In 2458 Allah mentions salat al-isha; did He forget to tell us what time it is supposed to be upheld, if it is a salat other than dusk salat ? Isha means evening also and includes dusk. Dusk is included in the qur'aanic night and 11114 and 1778 both refer to only one dusk salat which is at one edge of the day, the one near the near part of the night. The other edge, the one near the other near part of the night is dawn.
3018 does not refer to salat but to God's praise. Praise of Allah can be done during the salat as well as outside salat. The fact remains that 3018 DOES NOT REFER TO SALAT.
Please read the articles and the posts at the links I quoted which explain all this.
Salam Tanaveer,
Wow! You really made some homework for me. Unfortunately for me, i am not debating you. I cannot you see, for I am an american who can only pray in arabic, but does not know or understand the root of arabic words. Therefore, I will read and follow up on every link I can and try as hard as I can to be more scholarly in my studies of meanings of arabic quranic words. I have briefly read a post on Quranic day & night, and can agree and see this current point
2187, "Permitted for you is sexual intercourse with your wives during the night of fasting...You may eat and drink until the white thread (of light) becomes distinguishable from the black thread at dawn. Then, you shall fast until the night."
God defines specifically here when daytime starts. The starting point of daytime is when the white thread (of light) becomes distinguishable from the black thread (of darkness) at dawn. Similarly, night starts when the black thread (of darkness) becomes distinguishable from the white thread at sunset. Using the same logic, daytime ends when with the last white thread (of lightness) at dusk. Similarly, night ends with the last black thread (of darkness) at sunrise.
In conclusion, daytime starts at dawn and stops at dusk; while night starts at sunset and ends at sunrise.
I also understand and agree with this
So far we have proved that Quranicly
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From dawn to sunrise belongs to daytime and night.
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From sunrise to sunset belongs to daytime.
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From sunset to dusk belongs to night and daytime.
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From dusk to dawn belongs to night
In conclusion for this second and longest way B, we proved that there is strong Quranic evidence to believe that
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The Quranic daytime starts at dawn and ends at dusk.
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The Quranic night starts at sunset and ends at sunrise
However in a previous post you said this
This verse 11114 therefore confirms the same two times of upholding salaat as 1778. So far we have seen that all three verses 2458, 1778, and 11114 CONSISTENTLY mention the same timings for upholding salat. The only inescapable conclusion of this would be that Allah mentions only 2 timings to uphold salaat and mentions only 2 salaat by name in the Qur'aan, therefore there are a minimum of only TWO salat to be upheld by believers SALAAT AL-FAJR (at dawn) and SALAAT AL-'ISHA (at dusk).
And while I read the entire post and understood how you clarified the meaninng of "wa", I see a contradiction in your beliefs of salaat, first you believed in 2 mandatory salaat, and now 3??? what gives?
You convinced me of three for sure, but I do not agree with only two.
Hmmm, let us look back at a previous post by Edip Yuksel; whereby he gives his argument for upholding three contact prayers
SALAAT PRAYER ACCORDING TO THE QURAN
Observing Salaat prayer is frequently mentioned together with giving charity and thus emphasizing the social consciousness and communal responsibility of those who observe the prayer (243,83,110; 477; 2278; 1071-7).
The Salaat prayer is observed to commemorate and remember God alone (6162; 2014). This remembrance protects Submitters from sins and harming others (2945). Salaat prayer should be observed continuously until death (1931; 7023,34).
Times For Prayer
Quran mentions three periods of time in conjunction with Salaat prayer. In other words, the Quran qualifies the word "Salaat" by three different temporal words (1) Salaat-al Fajr (Morning Prayer), (2) Salaat-al Esha (Evening Prayer), (3) Salaat-al Wusta (Middle/Noon Prayer). The Morning Prayer (245 and Evening Prayer (245 should be observed at both ends of the day, that is, early part of the night (11114) and the Middle Prayer (223.
HOW MANY PRAYERS A DAY?
Only three Contact Prayers are mentioned by name in the Quran. In other words, the word "salaat" is qualified with descriptive words in three instances. These are
- Salaat-al Fajr-DAWN PRAYER (2458; 11114).
- Salaat-al Esha-EVENING PRAYER (2458; 1778; 11114)
- Salaat-al Wusta- MIDDLE PRAYER (2238; 177
All of the verses that define the times of the prayers are attributable to one of these three prayers. Now let's see the related verses
DAWN & EVENING PRAYERS by their names
". . . This is be to be done in three instances before the DAWN PRAYER, at noon when you change your clothes to rest, and after the EVENING PRAYER. . ." (245.
For other usage of the word "esha" (evening) see 1216; 7946
The times of DAWN & EVENING PRAYERS defined
"You shall observe the contact prayers at both ends of the daylight, that is, during the adjacent hours of the night. . . " (11114)
Traditional translators and commentators consider the last clause "zulfan minal layl" of this verse as a seperate prayer indicating to the "night" prayer. However, we consider that clause not as an addition but as an explanation of the previous ambigious clause; it explains the temporal direction of the ends of the day. The limits of "Nahar" (daylight) is marked by two distinct points sunrise and sunset. In other words, two prayers should be observed not just after sunrise and before senset, but before sunrise and after sunset.
Furthermore, the traditional understanding runs into the problem of contradicting the practice of the very tradition it intend to promote. Traditionally, both morning and evening prayers are observed in a time period that Quranically is considered "LaYL" (night) since Layl starts from sunset and ends at sunrise. The word "Layl" in Arabic is more comprehensive than the word "night" used in English.
If the expression "tarafayin nahar" (both ends of the day) refers to morning and evening paryers which are part of "Layl" (night), then, the last clause cannot be describing another prayer time.
The time of NOON and EVENING PRAYER defined.
"You shall observe the contact prayer when the sun goes down until the darkness of the night. You shall also observe the Quran at dawn. Reading the Quran at dawn is witnessed." (177.
The decline of the sun can be understood either its decline from the zenith marking the start of the Noon prayer or its decline behind the horizon marking the start of the Evening prayer. There are two opposing theories regarding the purpose of the usage of "duluk" (rub) in the verse; nevertheless, either understanding will not contradict the idea of 3 times a day since both Noon and Evening prayers are accepted.
MIDDLE PRAYER (Noon)
"You shall consistently observe the contact prayers, especially the MIDDLE PRAYER, and devote yourselves totally to God." (223.
Verse 3832 implies that the time of the Middle prayer ends with sunset.
We can easily understand the MIDDLE prayer as a prayer between the two other prayers mentioned by name (Dawn and Evening).
The Old Testament has at least three verses referring to Contact Prayers (Salaat) and they confirm this understanding. Though we may not trust the Biblical translations verbatim, we may not consider them as errors since both internal and external consistency of the Biblical passages regarding the Contact Prayers are striking.
"And as soon as the lad was gone, David arose out of a place toward the south, and fell on his face to the ground, and bowed himself three times and they kissed one another, and wept one with another, until David exceeded." (1 Samuel 2041)
"As for me, I will call upon God; and the Lord shall save me. Evening, and morning, and at noon, will I pray, and cry aloud and he shall hear my voice." (Psalms 5516-17) (PS crying aloud apparently means praying with passion).
"Now when Daniel knew that the writing was signed, he went into his house; and his windows being open in his chamber toward Jerusalem, he kneeled upon his knees three times a day, and prayed, and gave thanks before his God, as he did afortime." (Daniel 610)
Reviewing yours and his articles has been very educating, and thourough. Well done!! Although, I have made my final judgement as of currently to reside with the opinion that there are three mandatory contact prayers as follows
Pray salaat after sunset, before dawn (Sunset prayer)
Pray salaat after dawn, before sunset (Noon Prayer)
Pray salaat after sunrise before sunset (Dawn Prayer)Thank you so much, I really appreciate your hard work, and it has been very informative. handshake
Now..as far as the number for each contact prayer during those salaat...that is a whole other arena I will need to study, but for now, I do not mind praying as many contacts as I feel for those three salaat's. P
Honor
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Peace honor,
Thank you so much, I really appreciate your hard work, and it has been very informative.
You are welcome sister handshake
And while I read the entire post and understood how you clarified the meaninng of "wa", I see a contradiction in your beliefs of salaat, first you believed in 2 mandatory salaat, and now 3??? what gives?
Where did you get this idea that I now believe in 3 obligatory salaat ???
Reviewing yours and his articles has been very educating, and thourough. Well done!! Although, I have made my final judgement as of currently to reside with the opinion that there are three mandatory contact prayers as follows
Pray salaat after sunset, before dawn (Sunset prayer)
Pray salaat after dawn, before sunset (Noon Prayer)
Pray salaat after sunrise before sunset (Dawn Prayer)Looks like you haven't read some of my points, or maybe did not really concentrate on them.
Firstly, bro Edip is quoting from Old Testament to prove the 3 salat which is not a valid argument ! The Qur'aan authenticates the previous scriptures, not the other way around, especially when the previous scriptures do not survive in ther original authentic form and have been proven to contain a lot of corruption and contradiction in their current form !
Secondly, please go through all the occurrences of the word "WST" in the Qur'aan and see what it consistently means in the Qur'aan. Let me help you a bit on that by quoting the relevant part from the following article
http//free-minds.org/articles/quranic/salat2.htm
Middle (Wusta) Salaat.
Wusta- is the word that is used to mean "middle" in 2238. Let us read and see if this fits throughout The Reading.
The God will not call you to account for what is futile in your oaths, but He will call you to account for your deliberate oaths for expiation, feed ten indigent persons, on a scale of the average/best/balanced (AWSAT) for the food of your families; or clothe them; or give a slave his freedom. If that is beyond your means, fast for three days. That is the expiation for the oaths ye have sworn. But keep to your oaths. Thus doth The God make clear to you His signs, that ye may be grateful.
The God tells us that for expiation, we are to give average type of food like we would give our own families. We are to give a balanced meal, one that contains some nutrition , but not one that we have to spend our life savings on.
"O ye who believe! Give of the GOOD THINGS which ye have earned, and of the fruits of the earth which We have produced for you, and do not even aim at getting anything which is bad, in order that out of it ye may give away something, when ye yourselves would not receive it except with closed eyes. And know that The God is Free of all wants, and worthy of all praise."
Average can also be seen as middle from the above explanation, so lets dig a little further for clarification.
More clarifications-
There are two other clarifying verses that settle this dispute (Remember disputes are to be settled with the messenger, the ever living messenger , The Reading (459))
" But when they saw the garden they said ' we have surely lost our way indeed we are deprived.' Said "AWSATUHUM" 'Did not I say to you, 'Why not glorify The God?' "
So, using our minds that we are responsible for, would we place "middle" or "most balanced" in this verse? Clearly it was the 'most balanced' man, what would be the ?middle? man? The one who suggested glorifying The God was the most balanced because the righteous are those who maintain the balance of all things in life, they keep the proper perspective of the material world and the spiritual world.
O people, we created you from the same male and female, and rendered you distinct peoples and tribes, that you may recognize one another. The best among you in the sight of The GOD is the most righteous. The GOD is Omniscient, Cognizant.
You see this is how The God teaches us the names as He did for Adam (237) and will do for all of His devotees who turn completely to Him.
The shaytaan (deceiver) has been exposed, but there is more falsehood that needs its brains knocked out by the truth.
"Thus we have made you an "ummatan WASATAN", that you might be witnesses over the nations and the messenger a witness over yourselves;..."
Has The God made the believers a 'middle group' or has He made the believers a BALANCED group? The Most Merciful has not left it up for us to guess. He has clarified it for us.
"Ye are the MOST BALANCED/BEST of people (khayra ummatan) evolved for mankind. Enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believe in The God..."
Salaat is a function which will make you a balanced human being, one who has not gotten lost in the material illusion and remembers that He/She is only here for a test.
Know that this worldly life is no more than play and games, and boasting among you, and hoarding of money and children. It is like abundant rain that produces plants and pleases the disbelievers. But then the plants turn into useless hay, and are blown away by the wind. In the Hereafter there is either severe retribution, or forgiveness from GOD and approval. This worldly life is no more than a temporary illusion.
Finally, please answer my following questions that I posed to you earlier
2238 is not referring to a particular salat by the name of "middle" salat but is referring to the "best/balanced" salat. If it is the "middle" salat, then
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DID ALLAH FORGET TO TELL WHICH SALAT IS THE FIRST SALAT ?
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HOW DO YOU DETERMINE WHICH ONE IS MIDDLE ?
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WHICH SALAT IS ALLAH REFERRING TO AS MIDDLE ?
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DID ALLAH FORGET TO TELL US THAT ?
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Why is "noon" the middle salat ? Did Allah say that "fajr" is the FIRST salat ?
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If Allah has not given us a starting point as to which is the first salat then how can we determine the "middle" salat ? I can arbitrarily say that "isha" salat is the first salat, that would make "fajr" as the "middle" one then, if there are 3 salats ! But then how will you justify "noon" salat then ?? !!
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If there was indeed a middle salat then how come The God forgot to mention it in 2458 ?
2458 O you who believe, let those who are committed to you by oath, and those who have not yet attained puberty, request your permission regarding three times before the dawn salat/connection, and when you put off your attire from the noon time, and after the evening salat/connection. These are three private times for you. Other than these times, it is not wrong for you or them to intermingle with one another. God thus clarifies the revelations for you. And God is Knowledgeable, Wise.
Why did He not say, at the time of noon salat here ?
- Let us consider 2238
2238 Maintain the SALAWAT/connections, and the WUSTA SALAT/connection; and stand dutiful for God.
Notice The God asking us to maintain SALAWAT/connectionS (plural), and then immediately adds WUSTA SALAT. Now if "wusta salat" means "middle" and it is a separate salat, then hasn't The God already mentioned ALL SALATS just before it and wouldn't that include "middle" salat as well ? Saying SALAWAT/ConnectionS and then saying the name of another salat would be redundant, won't it ?
Let me give an example. Suppose I tell a medical student
Read your medical books and the internal medicine book
Am I not being redundant because "medical books" already includes "internal medicine book" ?
Suppose I tell you
Bring your dressES and the red dress
Isn't the red dress already included in "dressES" and would it not then be redundant to add it after I already said "dressES" ?
The only way it will make sense is if "wusta salat" is not the name of a separate salat but is a description of what all our salats should be like, i.e. the best/balanced salat, (remember "wa" can separate a descriptive attribute of a subject from the previously mentioned subject in Arabic) and then this usage will also be consistent with how the words derived from "WST" are used elsewhere in the Qur'aan.
You see, "wusta" meaning "middle" in 2238 does not make any sense, and leads to conjecturing as to which salat is first and which is "middle" and would also cause a logical redundancy in 2238. It can only mean "best/balanced" salat, meaning that ALL our salats should be that way.
The following is quoted from one of the links I gave, in which I raised some logical questions against "wusta" meaning middle in 2238
"In my understanding there is no such thing as the "middle" prayer in al-qur'aan. That is the wrong translation of "salat al-wusta" which means "best/balanced/moderate salat" in the context of 2238 and al-qur'aan as a whole. According to 2238 Allah wants us to uphold all our salaats in the best/balanced/moderate manner.
Firstly, which salat would be the "middle" salat ? If there are 3 salats x, y and z then depending on which one is the first or initial salat would determine the middle salat. For example if x is the first or initial salat then y would be the middle salat, but if y is the first salat then z would be the middle one, and if z is the first salat then x would be the middle one.
Allah never leaves something vague as al-qur'aan is clear and detailed. I challenge anyone to give qur'aanic evidence as to which salat is CLEARLY the first salat and which salat is CLEARLY the "middle" salat according to al-qur'aan. If the middle salat is so important as to be mentioned separately in 2238 then Allah should have clearly told us which salat He is talking about as the middle salat and not leave it unclear and up to guess work.
Secondly, in 2238 when it says protect the salats in the beginning of the verse, that logically includes ALL salats and then it is redundant to say AND the middle salat, if the middle salat is a separate salat, because the word salats in the beginning of the verse automatically includes the middle salat as well IF THERE IS INDEED A MIDDLE SALAT. That logically proves that by "salat al-wusta" Allah does not mean a separate middle salat but is giving a descriptive property of how ALL our salats should be, i.e. the best/balanced/moderate salat, meaning that all our salats should be upheld in the best/balanced/moderate manner.
Thirdly, if one studies the usage of all the words derived from the root WST in al-qur'aan one finds that the meaning "middle" does not fit in any of those usages but the meaning best/balanced/moderate fits in those occurrences. Thus in 2238 "wusta" cannot mean middle because of the logical contradiction presented in the second paragraph above, and can only mean "best/balanced/moderate" as per context of that verse and the usage of similar words throughout al-qur'aan.
Please go through the following links again very carefully, with concentration
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7727.0 (for a detailed discussion on "salat al-wusta"
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9110.msg107691#msg107691
May The God guide us all to the truth.
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Peace sis honor,
Now..as far as the number for each contact prayer during those salaat...that is a whole other arena I will need to study, but for now, I do not mind praying as many contacts as I feel for those three salaat's.
There is no such thing as "contact prayer" in the Qur'aan. Perhaps you meant how many units or sessions in each salat. The following is my understanding on that issue
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12981.msg106616#msg106616
I posted my understanding of "the timed salat of the muslims" recently in the following thread, perhaps you can go through it as well
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12074.0
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Peace sis honor, all,
An excellent proof based on Arabic Grammar and the wordings used in the Qur'aan for dawn and dusk salat, that the phrase "AL-salat AL-wusta" in 2238 CANNOT be the name of a separate salat
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7727.msg12526#msg12526
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Salam Brother Tanaveer,
Thank you so much for your time, in posting all of these references and referring me to things neccessary to understand the roots and meanings of the words...I understand it will take some time for me to absorb all of this, and get back to you.
Give me sometime, to read through everything you have given me.
Honor