Big bang theory
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God spoke, and BANG! it was.
hows that for scientific theory?
bw
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Peace "holyerthanyou",
The phrase "huwa yaqool kun fa yakoon" should more appropriately be tanslated as "He said be and it BECOMES(not was)". The Arabic term for "was/became" is "kaana". So GOD set everything up and then space and time(of this universe, since we dont know whether this universe is part of another one) seperated and all the paricles auto assembled into everything we have today. This is really a most fascinating thing. GOD didnt have to intervene again and again. He calculated everything in advance and it all that comes into being at the set time. GOD Bless! -
salaam,
Yea but that just takes God out of the picture?
Deistic, isn't it.
@holyerthanthou well, that wasn't much of a scientific theory... what are we gonna calculate, hypothesize, predict from that?
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peace
JK, I thought you said God was "everything in this universe?" And since God has already calculated everything, his holiness already knows who will fail and who will not? God has designed certain people to be good and certain people to be bad? How in the name of high school football is that fair?
As for the big bang, it doesn't explain a lot. It's like BANG and we have a universe out of nothing. Sounds like bull crap. But we can't really know what happened before it.
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Peace "angel"
salaam,
Yea but that just takes God out of the picture?
JK- NO it really doesnt and here comes why. GOD as He states in the Quran is the Light(quantum network) of the heavens and the earth and without the quantum field which ranges to ifninity nothing would exist. All the lementary particles are in direct contact with Him. Thts the point Deists miss. Take GOD out of the pic and everything vanishes. Its just that GOD has FIXED the Laws and doesnt change. GOD Bless
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Peace "phoenix",
peace
JK, I thought you said God was "everything in this universe?" And since God has already calculated everything, his holiness already knows who will fail and who will not? God has designed certain people to be good and certain people to be bad? How in the name of high school football is that fair?
JK- I admit this is a tough one and someone here on the forum suggested tht GOD might not wanna know .000001% of the chaos in our neural networks and hence made somehting random from His very persepective to actually see Himself how it will go but honestly this seems to me more absurd. On the other hand we must accept causality. Theres just no way around. Wht you dont understand is tht GOD HAS TO EXIST. He has to. There is no other logical possibility as eventually any particles come together to form more and more intelligence. This has happened since infinity since there is no real start(thts why GOD also says tht Hes the beginning and the end meaning He is there because of the combination of quantum particles forming a Supreme Intelligence over infinite amount of time). And we know once intelligenc arises it assumes control and since GOD has infinite intelligence He asuumed control over everything. You talk about whats fair and whats not. Well your deeds are all about the neural network and wht it adopted and how it functions. This is just the way it is and we need to accept and get over it. I just dont think about it and try my best to adopt rational thought.
As for the big bang, it doesn't explain a lot. It's like BANG and we have a universe out of nothing. Sounds like bull crap. But we can't really know what happened before it.
JK- Yes and scientists admit they dont know what happened or what was before it and their are many theories but this does not by any means invalidate the sepeerating of space-time and the energy therein. GOD Bless!
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peace
JK, I thought you said God was "everything in this universe?" And since God has already calculated everything, his holiness already knows who will fail and who will not? God has designed certain people to be good and certain people to be bad? How in the name of high school football is that fair?
As for the big bang, it doesn't explain a lot. It's like BANG and we have a universe out of nothing. Sounds like bull crap. But we can't really know what happened before it.
Imagine that your life is a series of "forks in the road", everytime you chose left, or right, you come to a new fork, and so on. You would only be able to see where you went based on the forks you took. God can see the end result of every fork you could have come across. Even the ones you didn't take. It's up to you to pick the forks that will lead you to God.
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Peace "nurd",
Imagine that your life is a series of "forks in the road", everytime you chose left, or right, you come to a new fork, and so on. You would only be able to see where you went based on the forks you took. God can see the end result of every fork you could have come across. Even the ones you didn't take. It's up to you to pick the forks that will lead you to God.
JK- My qs to you is how can GOD see the end result if we are not to operate CAUSALLY and hence deterministic? That is the issue. Unless you wanna explain GOD by some magician which is obviously absurd. Real/absolute free will would rquire that no one including GOD, could determine what wed do or what decisions we would make. We do things in certain ways because of many many different reasons but THEY ARE ALL CAUSAL. There is no magic going on in our brain. GOD Bless!
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Isn't it possible that TIME is an illusion? Not the magazine.
I mean, if we could see everything in terms of just energy (what everything fundementally is), nothing would be changing. Time is the measure of change. If nothing changes, there is no time.Jonny, if our destiny is already decided, then there's no point in us trying to do anything. We should just sit back and let our destiny unfold.
I don't think you can use causality to determine the thoughts and actions of humans. Our imagination is not bound by it.
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Peace "
Isn't it possible that TIME is an illusion? Not the magazine.
I mean, if we could see everything in terms of just energy (what everything fundementally is), nothing would be changing. Time is the measure of change. If nothing changes, there is no time.JK- What is energy? They are all particles, if but infinitely small, where one causes the other from infinity, and they are propgating in all directions. Energy itself is causal. Energy aint some magical stuff as many pseudo scientists or mystics see it.
Jonny, if our destiny is already decided, then there's no point in us trying to do anything. We should just sit back and let our destiny unfold.
JK- Your promoting fatalism now which i used to too as a mockery to neoroscience but theres no way around causality. However no neuroscientist, neither do i, promote fatalism. Yes everything is causal but we "live the illusion" and dont think about it. We just dont and tht too is causal.
I don't think you can use causality to determine the thoughts and actions of humans. Our imagination is not bound by it.
JK- Our imagination as i mentioned earlier is bound by the shapes and dimensions we have observed. Ofcourse there are a great nuber of possibilities to mix these and create various zillions of thghts but not infinite. And ofcourse we can not with our limited capabilies as as of now determine all the thoughts and actions of humans BUT we can to a certain degree. Magicians make use of this by making us think or focus in a certain way and missing the real thing, thereby deceiving is. Pickpockets and fraudsters of all kinds also use similar manipulation tricks. Psychologists can predict the actions of certain people with certain drives and tendencies to a great extent. Once a patient had certain parts of his brain stimulated by a neurosurgeon which made him lift his arm and he actually said tht he LIFTED IT BECAUSE HE WILLED SO. A clear example of how freewill is nothing but an illusion. Here are clips which will perhaps make you understand better tht free will is an illusion
http//youtube.com/watch?v=2Sq-YUdq1OI (Part 1)
http//youtube.com/watch?v=-DylNVUN_3I (Part 2)
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=befugtgikMg (Another one)
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbxV8vtm85s
GOD Bless! -
Imagine that your life is a series of "forks in the road", everytime you chose left, or right, you come to a new fork, and so on. You would only be able to see where you went based on the forks you took. God can see the end result of every fork you could have come across. Even the ones you didn't take. It's up to you to pick the forks that will lead you to God.
Salaam Nurd
I used to understand this way, but it contradicts the fact that He is the Guide. Moreover, He will punish me if I take the wrong fork, so here this contradicts Justice.
I would say, God does not know, because He does not want to, not because He cannot. Just as He is not unfair because He does not want to, not because He cannot.
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I would say, God does not know, because He does not want to, not because He cannot. Just as He is not unfair because He does not want to, not because He cannot.
This is a wrong belief. Allah Taala knows everything. The Holy Quran says (For Thou art the All-Hearing, the All-Knowing) (2127)
Some Muslims, namely the Deobandi group, believe that Allah Taala can tell a lie if it is His will, but at least they say that Allah Taala is Al-Haq (The Truth), because it is His will to be so. So similarly, even if Allah Taala can decide not to know our destiny, that is not the actual case, as He has willed to be Al-Aleem (The All-Knowing).
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Peace bro "phoenix",
I think Derren Brown proves that we do have free will.
In fact he shows what I've been saying to you all along.JK- ??? How did you come to this conclusion? He shows that humans are controlled by neural processes and those can be manipulated very easily whilst the person still thinks it was his own will whilst it was actually the "free" will of another. Also check out this by Derren
http//youtube.com/watch?v=kbxV8vtm85s
Here youll see how he can PREDICT the outcome of human behaviour. How can one do tht if you have free will? If you know wht someone will chose then it is causally determinable and not free, get it? Also check out
http//youtube.com/watch?v=szZQCf0x1KY
http//youtube.com/watch?v=_GQW_MoqRXs
SCIENCE DOESNT ALLOW FOR FREE WILL.
GOD Bless! -
Peace sis "samia",
Salaam Nurd
I used to understand this way, but it contradicts the fact that He is the Guide. Moreover, He will punish me if I take the wrong fork, so here this contradicts Justice.
I would say, God does not know, because He does not want to, not because He cannot. Just as He is not unfair because He does not want to, not because He cannot.
JK- It doesnt make any sense to me tht the Infinite Power Source would not know everything. This is just like saying that GOD could make Himself disappear and not be there at certain places anymore but thts not possible since the energy covers all dimensioding cans and GOD as being omnipotent exists infinitely through all dimensions as well, not just the 3d we experiece. This logical fallacy can be equated somewhat with the statement"Can GOD create a rock which is too heavy for Him to lift?" It doesnt make any sense and would also contradict the Quran. Besides it wouldnt even make any difference since our brains would still be operating causally and every deed we do would be because of some reason i.e. some particles alligned in certain positions as the universe continues to run and so its particles. Free will is an illsuion. GOD Bless!
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Humans can control their neural processes.
I can do to myself what Derren Brown did to that BMX guy.
Random thoughts enter our head all the time. And we CHOOSE which ones to focus on and which ones to ignore. And that determines our emotions and our actions.
You are not your brain. You can choose to shut down your thoughts. It's called meditation.
What Henry Ford said is not false at all.We are what we are conditioned to be. We are the result of our past thoughts.
But what the guys in those videos don't understand is that you can be conditioned by outside experiences, but you can also be conditioned by yourself.
And because we are the result of our past thoughts and actions, if we don't like what we are, we can change it. But we can choose to like being fat and dislike being fat. That's free-will.
As Derren Brown showed, you can change your whole view of life in one moment.Let's say there's a pair of twins. They are both genetically identical. They are physically exactly the same. They have the same exact experiences. They are both swimmers.
Is it possible that one is a better swimmer than the other? Is it possible that even though they had the same experiences, they react to a certain event differently?
I think it is. -
Peace bro "phoenix",
Humans can control their neural processes.
JK- What do you mean by this statement? Do you mean that theres some supernatural part of a human that can control the neural processes? If ur implying tht then you must know tht theres ZERO SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE for tht.
I can do to myself what Derren Brown did to that BMX guy.
JK- Self sugestion where certain parts of the brain control others.
Random thoughts enter our head all the time. And we CHOOSE which ones to focus on and which ones to ignore. And that determines our emotions and our actions.
JK- We do choose but not freely. Its causally determined and one can be manipulated in such a way tht he thinks he chose freely whilst it was the other eg a hypnotist who threw in the suggestion and thts exactly wht derrens demonstrating in many of his clips. Go type in derren brown and watch all of them.
You are not your brain. You can choose to shut down your thoughts. It's called meditation.
What Henry Ford said is not false at all.JK- You cannot shut down your entire brain only parts of it otherwise there is no more you. The you is created inside your brain. There is ZERO EVIDENCE for any supernatural thing if implied.
We are what we are conditioned to be. We are the result of our past thoughts.
JK- And those are all stored in the brain aint they?
But what the guys in those videos don't understand is that you can be conditioned by outside experiences, but you can also be conditioned by yourself.
And because we are the result of our past thoughts and actions, if we don't like what we are, we can change it. But we can choose to like being fat and dislike being fat. That's free-will.JK- Tht is not freewill by any means and ive explained this. Freewill involves magic or supernatural stuff, violating causality which is nonsense.
As Derren Brown showed, you can change your whole view of life in one moment.
JK- Correct but thts not freewill either as ive explained. The very you is there in the brain and is AN ILLUSION.
Let's say there's a pair of twins. They are both genetically identical. They are physically exactly the same. They have the same exact experiences. They are both swimmers.
Is it possible that one is a better swimmer than the other? Is it possible that even though they had the same experiences, they react to a certain event differently?JK- Ofcourse it is. Identical twins dont even have identical fingerprints. Despite being from the same egg there are many tiny differnces on the micro level as well as different external influences. Consider just when a nurse takes them out right from there on both are not moved out in the exact same way or the exact same positions and you know the saying "a butterfly flapping its wings in the forest could change thw whole future". tht is how causality adds up. GOD Bless!
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Peace sis "samia",
JK- It doesnt make any sense to me tht the Infinite Power Source would not know everything. This is just like saying that GOD could make Himself disappear and not be there at certain places anymore but thts not possible since the energy covers all dimensioding cans and GOD as being omnipotent exists infinitely through all dimensions as well, not just the 3d we experiece. This logical fallacy can be equated somewhat with the statement"Can GOD create a rock which is too heavy for Him to lift?" It doesnt make any sense and would also contradict the Quran. Besides it wouldnt even make any difference since our brains would still be operating causally and every deed we do would be because of some reason i.e. some particles alligned in certain positions as the universe continues to run and so its particles. Free will is an illsuion. GOD Bless!
Salaam JK
You and yusha just took part of my posting and responded. It is not about whether God is all knowing or not. I did not pose any question. My statement is mostly related to the never-ending debate of free will and punishment.
I think that's why you concluded that free will is an illusion.
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salaam,
Phoenix1 wrote
As for the big bang, it doesn't explain a lot. It's like BANG and we have a universe out of nothing. Sounds like bull crap.Jonny_K wrote
JK- Yes and scientists admit they dont know what happenedSomeone asked this question to Dawkins, and Dawkins said the whole thing can be explained by evolution? ???