Anyone Prays in Non-English?
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Salaams Tay and Samia,
This is exactly why Allah has preserved Al Quran in Arabic. Therefore the foundation will always be there no matter how people try change the meanings of the words of Al Quran; especially by using different languages. If we removed the Arabic Quran and its importance from this equation, this movement of Quran only wouldn't even exist. All we would have left would be the interpretations of others left, whether they be in Arabic, English or any other language. By Allah preserving His EXACT words of revelation to us, we are able to investigate and ascertain the truth from all the falsehoods that are presented. Take away the Arabic Quran, and this current process becomes null and void.
As-Salaamu Alaikum, peace
Who is talking about removing the Arabic quraan? As long as people are still believing in the message it contains, they will always need the Arabic quraan to revert to. In fact, Arabic quraan will be more reserved by non native speakers than by native speakers, because the former study it and try to understand, the latter "think" they know it, and so they do not study it and are busy reading other books. I think we are in agreement here.
I would say it is important that it is preserved, not because it is in Arabic, but because it is in its original language.
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Yatlu to read and understand ; explain (yatlu 3ala someone). This is clear from this verse, because the result is they believe in it, so they must have understood it. We are not told that those who disbelieve in it do not "yatlu". So, the verse means "those to whom We revealed/given the book understand it very well, they believe in it, and whoever disbelieves in it, those are the losers".
I think we cannot limit this verse to particular people and specific time. It is for all of us.
yu/minoona bihi are those who yatloonahu haqqa tilawatihi and those who are not yatloonahu haqqa tilawatihi are yakfur bihi and for not doing so they are faola-ika humu alkhasiroona
The following Allatheena ataynahumu alkitaba is like 72 when it says to prophet only Kitabun onzila ilayka and in verse 73 it says to all of us IttabiAAoo ma onzila ilaykum
As you have said <<"those to whom We revealed/given the book understand it very well">> definetly the book was revealed in plain Arabic and even the kuffar were able to read and understand it but what was the difference in kuffar's understanding and believer's understanding? The only difference is kuffars are not the follower of the book but the believers are, and this would be true till the end of time. That is why I think we should not limit the verse to any people and time.
One more thing, the root Ta-Lam-Wao has also the meaning of following. For example in the verse
912 Waalqamari itha talaha
And the moon when it follows the sun,Everyone can read and understand the book but those who read/understand and follow it as it should be followed are the real believers and those who know it read it/ listen it/ understand it but do not follow are the disbelievers and would be khasiroon.
salam
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As-Salaamu Alaikum Samia,
This, we are in agreement with.
As-Salaamu Alaikum, peace
Who is talking about removing the Arabic quraan? As long as people are still believing in the message it contains, they will always need the Arabic quraan to revert to. In fact, Arabic quraan will be more reserved by non native speakers than by native speakers, because the former study it and try to understand, the latter "think" they know it, and so they do not study it and are busy reading other books. I think we are in agreement here.
I would say it is important that it is preserved, not because it is in Arabic, but because it is in its original language.
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Peace IQO, Samia, all,
I am in agreement here as well.
Who is talking about removing the Arabic quraan? As long as people are still believing in the message it contains, they will always need the Arabic quraan to revert to. In fact, Arabic quraan will be more reserved by non native speakers than by native speakers, because the former study it and try to understand, the latter "think" they know it, and so they do not study it and are busy reading other books. I think we are in agreement here.
I would say it is important that it is preserved, not because it is in Arabic, but because it is in its original language.
Peace,
Tay -
peace
i used to pray in arabic, but i was afraid i wouldn't prronounce the words correctly so i pray in my mother tounge (which is bosnian). but i don't think language is that important, Allah understands all languages.
you just have to be honest and mean the words you say.Salam.
I totally agree with you Nerspi.
Honesty goes a long way.
Honestly.Peace.
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Salaamun alaika brother IQO,
I agree with your points relevant to this thread but there is one point I disagree with, which is off-topic
As Salaat is only incumbent upon Al Mu'minoon, so a person should have had ample time upon becoming a "muslim" to learn some of the Quranic Arabic before they have developed to the next stage of "mu'min".
If you are not a mu'min, you are not required to perform As-Salaat.
Whereas I agree that becoming a "muslim" is the first stage before becoming a "mumin", I am of the understanding that aqeemus-salaat is obligatory upon both "muslimeen" and "mumineen".
Firstly, The God has called the believers "al-muslimeen" in the qur'aan
2277 O you who believe, kneel and prostrate and serve your Lord and do good that you may succeed.
2278 And strive in the cause of God its truly deserved striving. He is the One who has chosen you, and He has made no hardship for you in the system, the creed of your father Abraham; He is the One who named you 'those who have submitted' (almuslimeen) from before as well as in this. So let the messenger be witness over you and you be witness over the people. So honor the connection and contribute towards betterment and hold tight to God, He is your patron. What an excellent Patron, and what an excellent Supporter.Secondly, The God has ordered ALL muslims to "aqeemus-salaat" at regular times in al-qur'aan. The complete proofs from al-qur'aan can be found at the following discussion I had on this subject in the past
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12990.0
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As-Salaamu Alaika Tanveer bro,
Salaamun alaika brother IQO,
I agree with your points relevant to this thread but there is one point I disagree with, which is off-topic
Whereas I agree that becoming a "muslim" is the first stage before becoming a "mumin", I am of the understanding that aqeemus-salaat is obligatory upon both "muslimeen" and "mumineen".
Firstly, The God has called the believers "al-muslimeen" in the qur'aan
2277 O you who believe, kneel and prostrate and serve your Lord and do good that you may succeed.
2278 And strive in the cause of God its truly deserved striving. He is the One who has chosen you, and He has made no hardship for you in the system, the creed of your father Abraham; He is the One who named you 'those who have submitted' (almuslimeen) from before as well as in this. So let the messenger be witness over you and you be witness over the people. So honor the connection and contribute towards betterment and hold tight to God, He is your patron. What an excellent Patron, and what an excellent Supporter.I think we agree that all al-mu'mineen are also considered to be al-muslimeen. I think clearly that this is what this ayat establishes, and not the other way around that al-muslimeen are all al-mu'mineen. Therefore this ayat would only establish that everything enjoined on al-muslimeen would automatically be enjoined on al-mu-mumineen, but not vice-versa.
Secondly, The God has ordered ALL muslims to "aqeemus-salaat" at regular times in al-qur'aan. The complete proofs from al-qur'aan can be found at the following discussion I had on this subject in the past
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12990.0
I have read over the thread briefly. In general, I think most of the ayaat that you refer to point to the fact that al-muslimeen, or submission/peacefullness,etc. are included as part of the character of al-mu'mineen. I think you and Wakas eventually got to the point I wanted to make which is that 11114 is addressing the companions of the Messenger, i.e. those who turned with him. and therefore they would more likely be al-mu'mineen rather than just al-muslimeen in my opinion. I can think of ayaat that would support this in my head right now, but Im a little too tired to research to bring them out and post as proof. Allah willing, I will have time to post again and show them tomorrow. Since this is off topic, I may post my reply in that thread that you started back then that deals with this issue, from the link you provided. Until then....
As-Salaamu Alaikum, peace
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Salaamun alaika brother IQO,
In general, I think most of the ayaat that you refer to point to the fact that al-muslimeen, or submission/peacefullness,etc. are included as part of the character of al-mu'mineen. I think you and Wakas eventually got to the point I wanted to make which is that 11114 is addressing the companions of the Messenger, i.e. those who turned with him. and therefore they would more likely be al-mu'mineen rather than just al-muslimeen in my opinion.
I will wait for you to read the entire thread in detail and to research your position further from al-qur'aan. I have the refutation of your above two points (bolded) ready
Please ponder on 2234-35, 240, 283, 512 again. Look forward to further discussion on this issue in the relevant thread.
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Salam All,
In my opinion, it doesnt matter what language that you say your salat in. As long as you understands/know what you are saying.
443 You, you those who believed, do not approach the prayers and you are intoxicated , until you know what you are saying, and nor distant from God/impure , except crossing a road/way, until you wash yourselves with water , and if you were sick/diseased or on a long distance travel, or any of you came from the safe and hidden depression in ground used for human discharge (toilet) or you touched.
salam
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Salam All,
In my opinion, it doesnt matter what language that you say your salat in. As long as you understands/know what you are saying.
443 You, you those who believed, do not approach the prayers and you are intoxicated , until you know what you are saying, and nor distant from God/impure , except crossing a road/way, until you wash yourselves with water , and if you were sick/diseased or on a long distance travel, or any of you came from the safe and hidden depression in ground used for human discharge (toilet) or you touched.
salam
I stopped praying for similar reasons, but I always missed that specific part in the verse. Thanks )
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Salaam,
When I became Muslim I researched these words before I even did Salaat. Even the Quran calls for us to understand. To say things, "just because" really doesnt make any sense to me. You dont learn or gain anything out of it, you are just a robot following instructions and not knowing anything. I do pray in Arabic and understand what I am saying at the same time. Oddly enough, its hard for me to pray in english because then I need to translate it to myself from Arabic to English, but when I do it in Arabic, I completely understand it. I guess Ive programmed myself that way.
Sad story is that of my friends. I went over it in english to confirm it with them and they had no clue what I was talking about. I personally wouldnt mind being Hafiz just because, but Id also like to learn its meaning if I did. It sounds beautiful when I hear a Qari reciting Quran.
Peace
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443 You, you those who believed, do not approach the prayers and you are intoxicated , until you know what you are saying, and nor distant from God/impure , except crossing a road/way, until you wash yourselves with water , and if you were sick/diseased or on a long distance travel, or any of you came from the safe and hidden depression in ground used for human discharge (toilet) or you touched.
I cant believe I never thought of that verse before.
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I cant believe I never thought of that verse before.
From a sunni perspective, the first part of this verse is only concerned about "not to pray" in the state of intoxication, however they fail to see the reason not to pray during the state of intoxication is to know what you are saying, hence while you are not in the state of intoxication, we should know what we are saying during salat.
The Asbabunnuzul(reason for Quranic verses to come down) for this verse is this hadith
"(They ask you about alcoholic drink and gambling). In that Hadith, the Messenger of Allah recited this Ayah to
Umar, who said, "O Allah! Explain the ruling about Khamr (intoxicants) for us in a plain manner.'' When this Ayah was revealed, the Prophet recited it toUmar, who still said, "O Allah! Explain the ruling about Khamr (intoxicants) for us in a plain manner.'' After that, they would not drink alcohol close to the time of prayer."from http//www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=4&tid=11247
However, i fail to search the reference number for this hadith
salam