Isra: Muhammad or Musa?
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Salam,
But Moses, not Lot, is mentioned in the next verse (172).
And I would like to add here that the verse seperation we use today was not in the original Quran. So it might be more accurate to say that Moses is mentioned in the following sentence.
Salam,
Arnab
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Peace be with you,
Just because Moses is mentioned in the next verse it is not all inclusive evidence to confirm such opinion.
To briefly sum up the story told in the Quran of Moses ; Moses and Children of Israel leave Egypt and head to the promised/blessed land and on that journey witness certain signs and Moses receives the Torah and then they arrive at the city and because of their disobedience that land becomes forbidden for 40 years. We should be able to explain 171 within the journey of Moses and Children of Israel from Egypt.
Just as Rasulhmasa raised above we should be able to expalin 'al-masjid al-haram' and masjidul aqsa within that interpretation of 171.
I am not certain about this, but does the verse imply ?The Slave? traveled from Masjidul Haram to Masjidul Aqsa in a single night?
Also the tense of the verse 171 and in its connection to 172 should be linguistically analyzed.
Peace
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Peace Fahad
Allah ordered Lot to travel by night in the following verses. You did not notice the article on http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13953.0 mentions these 2 verses as well as the 3 with regard to Moses.That will make Lot a strong contender along with Moses for the night traveller status if we go by your reasoning.
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Pickthall (The messengers) said O Lot! Lo! we are messengers of thy Lord; they shall not reach thee. So travel with thy people in a part of the night, and let not one of you turn round (all) save thy wife. Lo! that which smiteth them will smite her (also). Lo! their tryst is (for) the morning. Is not the morning nigh?Qa_lu_ ya_ lu_tu inna_ rusulu rabbika lay yasilu_ ilaika fa asri bi ahlika bi qit'im minal laili wa la_ yaltafit minkum ahadun illa-mra'atak(a), innahu_ musibuha_ ma_ asa_bahum, inna mau'idahumus subh(u), alaisas subhu bi qarib(in).
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Pickthall So travel with thy household in a portion of the night, and follow thou their backs. Let none of you turn round, but go whither ye are commanded.Transliteration Fa asri bi ahlika bi qit'im minal laili wa-ttabi' adba_rahum wa la_ yaltafit minkum ahaduw wa-mdu_ haisu tu'maru_n(a).
I haven't read the other article, but I knew the verses about Lot. They don't make Lot a stronger candidate.
The verse which talks about Moses mention "lail", the exact wording as used in 171.
While the verses which talk about Lot mention "bi qit'im minal laili", not the exact wording as used in 171.
Thats why I went with Moses instead of Lot.
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Many man was confussed by masjidil haram and masjidil aqsho, then make assumption QS.17/1 refers to Muhammad indeed this surah is named by Bani Israil then telling the story about them.
Masjidil haram shall not the name of Meccan big mosque but the place where Moses began to make dakwa and masjidil aqsho is a place is faraway i.e from Egipt to Sinai. Isra is the journey in the terms of dzulumat (darkness in the earth because man were controlled by thoghut/Pharaoh).
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Sounds like the Tutty Fruity fallacy
so Moses was ordered to "44/23 So (O Musa)travel with My servants by night. You will surely be pursued.
"i.e. Moses is the one who is doing the action of Israa
in 171 however we read that Allah is the one who is doing the Israa, Fahad also confirmed that "Verse 17/1 talks about God taking His servant on a journey/isra "
I.e. apples is exacly like mangos (the Tutty Fruity fallacy)
another one caught red handed
Salam
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Peace
His slave mentioned in verse 171 should refer to Muhammad.
In 181 and 251 ?His slave? is used with reference to Muhammad.
Also in other places in the Quraan whenever ?His salve? is used without a name of another Messenger attached to it, the ?His slave? always refers to Muhammad.
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Salaam Ahmed ,
I did not understand your position on the Asra. When Allah says ?We crossed with the Children of Israel the sea? 7138, 1090 is this not similar to 171.
Salam bro
Not really, it is similar that Allah did the action of "Gawazna" because that is the what the words says, however this is another action and is not like Asra
the order for Moses was for him to Yasri laila, it was not said that Allah is going to Yasri bihi laila, now you are using another action in another event whch is Gawazna (it means got them close to) that was after they Sarro (Walked) for a while to try and link the two events
well all events are linked because Allah allows all events to happen, on the other hand the comparison Fahad came with was silly and does not make sense because as I said again, the order for Moses was for him to walk, the order was not that Allah will walk him as 171 told us
Salam
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Peace
His slave mentioned in verse 171 should refer to Muhammad.
In 181 and 251 ?His slave? is used with reference to Muhammad.
Also in other places in the Quraan whenever ?His salve? is used without a name of another Messenger attached to it, the ?His slave? always refers to Muhammad.
Not always, Moses was also His slave
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Wait a minute AhmedBahgat, lets look at 171 again
17/1 Glorified be the one who took His servant by night from al-masjid al-haram to al-masjid al-aqsa whose surrounding We have blessed, that We may show him of Our signs. Indeed, He is the Listener, the Seer.
In other words
17/1 Glorified be the one (Moses) who took His servant(Moses' people) by night from al-masjid al-haram to al-masjid al-aqsa whose surrounding We have blessed, that We may show him (the one who is glorified) of Our signs. Indeed, He is the Listener, the Seer.
To shorten that up
17/1 Glorified be the one who took His servant by night ... that We may show him of Our signs. Indeed, He is the Listener, the Seer.
So if God is glorifying Himself as the ONE who took His servant by night, why would He do it so that He "may show him of Our signs.? Who is this 'him' God is showing His sign to?
PLUS, if we look back at 20/77
20/77 And already We inspired to Moses ?Travel with My servants. So strike for them a path in the sea. You shall not fear being overtaken, nor be afraid.?
So here, God inspired Moses to go and travel by night with His (God) servants. Not God himself taking His servant on a journey. He asks Moses to go with God's servants, ie the people of Moses. So My Servant(first narrative), or His Servant(second narrative) refers to the people of Moses.
So if we look back at 17/1
17/1 Glorified be the one (somebody) who took His servant(Moses' people) by night from al-masjid al-haram to al-masjid al-aqsa whose surrounding We have blessed, that We may show him (the one who is glorified) of Our signs. Indeed, He is the Listener, the Seer.
So that 'somebody', the one being 'glorified' is the prophet Moses?
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Peace Ahmad, Samia
The children of Israel are/is Moses?s servant (singular)? Is this linguistically correct?
Is there any place in the Quran a Messengers People are called ?his slaves? meaning messengers slaves ? Or rather His Slave?
Why did he take the servant on the night journey? To show some signs to whoever is being taken.
But according to the distortion it seem its not his servant who is to be shown the signs it is the glorified one who is to be shown the signs by ?We?.
Logically the argument is not valid.
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Wait a minute AhmedBahgat,
Hello
Sure, I will give you 5 minutes not 1
lets look at 171 again
Let's go for it
17/1 Glorified be the one who took His servant by night from al-masjid al-haram to al-masjid al-aqsa whose surrounding We have blessed, that We may show him of Our signs. Indeed, He is the Listener, the Seer.
Great, however the word TOOK is the wrong translation , it has to be "cause to Walk", or "Cause to Travel"
In other words
LOL, why is that?, I mean why you want to use OTHER WORDS?
17/1 Glorified be the one (Moses) who took His servant(Moses' people) by night from al-masjid al-haram to al-masjid al-aqsa whose surrounding We have blessed, that We may show him (the one who is glorified) of Our signs. Indeed, He is the Listener, the Seer.
Three mistakes
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Glorified be the one (Moses), you replaced Allah with Moses
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who took His servant(Moses' people), you made the singualr Abdihi a PLURAL (Moses' People)
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who took His servant(Moses' people), you translated the word ASRA as Took while it should be "Cause to Walk", or "Cause to Travel" within the verse context
Your flawed understanding also contains one severe non sense
- You started verse 171 by making the one who is talking in the verse as Moses who took his people (plural) at night from a place to another, then you ended the verse by saying "that We may show him (the one who is glorified) of Our signs."
See the non sense to follow
A) 'We ' must be Moses under your non sesnible understanding because he was the one that was talking in the verse and the one who Asra be Moses people
B) the people Moses took as you claim is "Abdihi" , instead of calling them "THEM" you called them "him" "We may show him "
To shorten that up
I hope so because I would like to salvage any minutes out of those 5 minutes that I was glad to wait for but ended up discussing three mistakes and one severe flaw
17/1 Glorified be the one who took His servant by night ... that We may show him of Our signs. Indeed, He is the Listener, the Seer.
Hmmm, you are back to the first words?, what happen to "In other words?"
So if God is glorifying Himself as the ONE who took His servant by night, why would He do it so that He "may show him of Our signs.? Who is this 'him' God is showing His sign to?
hmmm, ok him above must be "Abdihi", i.e. "HIS SERVANT",
now the history tells us it was Mohammad, you and Fahad are telling us that it's Moses but so far both of you provided mistakes and non sense, sorry
PLUS, if we look back at 20/77
20/77 And already We inspired to Moses ?Travel with My servants. So strike for them a path in the sea. You shall not fear being overtaken, nor be afraid.?
That is right, in 2077, it was Moses who was ordered by Allah to cause HIS SLAVES "", "Bi Ibady", i.e. "PLURAL", i.e. "MY SLAVES" to travel
But in 171 is prasing Allah who caused "ABDIHI" a singular to travel
We can't also deny that the cause of Travel in 171 was to show ABDIHI "HIS SLAVE" a few signs
in 2077 however there was no mention to showing any signs rather telling him about the escape route and to strike the sea with his staff when they reached it as planned by Allah, Moses and his people were in great FEAR, that is why 2277 ended with " ", i.e. NOT TO FEAR
PLUS, if we look back at 20/77
So here, God inspired Moses to go and travel by night with His (God) servants. Not God himself taking His servant on a journey.Wrong, the verb Asra is referring to the One that is praised in 171, i.e. Allah is the one who Asra because He Asra Be Abdihi, i.e. CAUSED ABDIHI (HIS SLAVE) TO TRAVEL
He asks Moses to go with God's servants, ie the people of Moses.
Wrong, the word was Abdihi and it is singular, God's servants however is Plural
So My Servant(first narrative), or His Servant(second narrative) refers to the people of Moses.
http//free-islam.com/extraimages/dismissed.gif
So if we look back at 17/1
Sorry, that's it for me, thanks for wasting not 5 minutes but 15 while you stated indirectly that the whole process should take one minute
17/1 Glorified be the one (somebody) who took His servant(Moses' people) by night from al-masjid al-haram to al-masjid al-aqsa whose surrounding We have blessed, that We may show him (the one who is glorified) of Our signs. Indeed, He is the Listener, the Seer.
So that 'somebody', the one being 'glorified' is the prophet Moses?
No, it is Allah
Salam
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Selam,
I have read an interesting interpretation of 17/1 and I want to share it to you.
It says Mescid-i Aksa was a masjeed near Cirane near Mekke because at that time there was not a temple called Mescid-i Aksa in Jerusalem and the report that Mescid-i Aksa had been near Cirane said and recorded by Vakdi and Ezraki. And says prophet Muhammed travelled between these to masjeeds Mescid-i Haram and Mescid-i Aksa in his vision(dream), also adds the verse 17/1 is an evangel of Hajj and an exam for the followers of prophet.
To strengthen this claim, it points out two verses of Kur?an ;
Other verses of Kur?an about the event of Isra;
?Truly did Allah fulfil the vision for His Messenger. ye shall enter the Sacred Mosque, if Allah wills, with minds secure, heads shaved, hair cut short, and without fear. For He knew what ye knew not, and He granted, besides this, a speedy victory.?(48/27)?Behold! We told thee that thy Lord doth encompass mankind round about We granted the vision which We showed thee, but as a trial for men,- as also the Cursed Tree (mentioned) in the Quran We put fear (and warning) into them, but it only increases their inordinate transgression!?(17/60)
And says if these infos are combined and approached logically, that time prophet Muhammed and his followers could not approach to Mescid-i Haram(Mekke) because it was on the land of enemies and Explains; ?They temporarily chose a new masjeed around Cirane near Mekke which was recorded by some scholars namely Mescid-i Aksa but all their desire was Mescid-i Haram in Mekke. Prophet Muhammed travelled spiritually(not bodily) in his vision between these two masjeeds, he saw the verses, the proof of Hajj and tavaf, he announced good news to his followers that they would do Hajj in future and this became an exam for his followers to believe or not to believe and then this vision became real when the time came. The event of Isra occurred as a sign of Hajj and tavaf that would be real soon, not for the prophet to see Allah. Besides Kur?an does not mention anything about Mirac. However we realized that this verse which was shown namely the proof of Allah and is nothing but an evangel of Hajj and tavaf mentioned in 48/27, and this vision is an exam for the followers of Muhammed mentioned in 17/60. Allah knows the best?
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Hello fbahadir
I truely elieve that the purpose of Israa was to support the Mirajj, the Mirajj was the main mircale to raise the prophet spitit after he was opposed hard in the first few years of his mission, so if it was only the Mirajj that happeded then no one would have believed the prophet, but because he proved his Israa (as you know from the history) then there is no reason to disbelieve what he said about the Mirajj
Allah knows best
Salam (greeting)
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Hello fbahadir
I truely elieve that the purpose of Israa was to support the Mirajj, .... so if it was only the Mirajj that happeded then no one would have believed the prophet, but because he proved his Israa (as you know from the history) then there is no reason to disbelieve what he said about the Mirajj
Allah knows best
Salam (greeting)
So you think that if people can believe in a nocturne journey between two earthly locations, it will be easier for them to believe in a journey to heavens where prophet Muhammad had a conversation with God during which he bargained the number of prayers per day (with the instruction and supervision of Moses)?
You always ask for "evidence" from the quraan for the smallest information, yet you come with a huge story like this, attribute it to the prophet, and do not give even one verse to support your claim?
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So you think that if people can believe in a nocturne journey between two earthly locations, it will be easier for them to believe in a journey to heavens where prophet Muhammad had a conversation with God during which he bargained the number of prayers per day (with the instruction and supervision of Moses)?
You always ask for "evidence" from the quraan for the smallest information, yet you come with a huge story like this, attribute it to the prophet, and do not give even one verse to support your claim?
you are truely a manipulator
here is what I said again
I truely elieve that the purpose of Israa was to support the Mirajj, .... so if it was only the Mirajj that happeded then no one would have believed the prophet, but because he proved his Israa (as you know from the history) then there is no reason to disbelieve what he said about the Mirajj
Allah knows best
can you bloody see that O said "I truely elieve that the purpose of Israa was to support the Mirajj"
can you also see that I said "(as you know from the history)", i.e. I didn't associate anything to the prophet as you do
can you also see that I ended my comment by "Allah knows best"
finally, someone calling himself a Muslim like you who does not even understand the smallest guidance in it which if been greeted you should the leastt reply with the same greeting if not better and I have seen other greeting you and you dont reply the greeting so you have proven to be ignorant and only wants to pick on me therefore you have been dismissed