Culture and Race
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Ahmed,
Who is that comment for? Why don't you stop piggy backing and trying to instigate and actually say what you mean and why you mean it. I demand a full explanation of why you consider me a racist if that comment was towards me, which knowing you I'm sure it was.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Ahmed,
Who is that comment for? Why don't you stop piggy backing and trying to instigate and actually say what you mean and why you mean it. I demand a full explanation of why you consider me a racist if that comment was towards me, which knowing you I'm sure it was.
Godbless,
AnwarHello
well, of course you know whom my comment is directed at, well for me those who talk about the color of our skins are clear cut racists (not in a cream ad though), this is how Australia is, in fact a few years back there was an ad on TV about Sun Block Cream, the ad was using black people because they are immune to sun burn, so the Australian compalined because the ad is racist even though they said nothing wrong about the blacks, and the ad was taken of air
Salam
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Peace,
Firstly Blacks are not immune to sunburn. I've met some dark "black" people who actually do get sunburn. Which suprised me and I am Afro-American. Not that it is a big deal that you thought that. I am considered black and I had a misconception about my own people.
Secondly, talking about colors does not make you a racist. Not talking about it and worse not wanting to know about the colors of people makes you more of a racist. The Quran says that he made us different colors just like the mountains and that is one of his masterpieces and signs. So if anyone has to deny the colors of humanity to accept them that person is a racist deep in his heart and is fooling himself.
This topic and the one before was not to establish that one strain of humanity (because of their color or any other of their features) is superior to another. That was never my intent and anyone who says that one strain of humanity is superior to another because of their physical features is ungodly. I look at the colors of human beings like that of cows (an animal I find to be beautiful), there are jet black cows, white cows, brown cows, brownish-red cows,long ears, long faces, short faces, etc., etc. You wouldn't look at one cow and judge it superior than another just because of its colors would you? Neither would I. But if we talk about each other with respect for all that God has created, and able to find beautify in all God has created than that is the absence of racism.
I titled the topic race and culture because my concerns were not about the races of people alone but the cultures of our different races that have hidden facts and obvious truths and tried to undermine them because of lack of appropriate study, and therefore call that lack of proof. As well as biased studies that hide truths.
My main comment was that the Arabs, East Indians, South East Asians, North Africans and Mediterraneans are all ancient strains of Mulatoes and Negroid/Mongoloid strains.
That proof lies in old history books, in the remnants of blacks in these areas who were not brought by the slave trade and most importantly in the faces of the people.
Qurayshi would deny the fact that Spaniards have significant African blood in them and term them a "White", a Caucasiod race. When despite their looks they have enveloped within the past 500 years a number of African lineages, from the time of the Moors until the end of the slave trade. One of the sites that I listed detailed what mixtures result in depending on the proportion which falls right in line with why mediterranean people look like they do. The Inquisition purposely kicked about brown folk and persecuted them during the inquisition all in the name of keeping one's blood-line Christian (The Jews and Muslim Moors came from Africa).
He would try to deny the Blackness of the Ancient Egyptians by weakly saying that they were not all Black, but failing to point to the fact that in the beginning Egpyt was all black and in its later days became mixed with Greeks, Persians, Romans and Arabs creating the Arab look of the Coptic Christians today and the Mixed look of many Southern Egpytians who actually are still considerd to be black(had they mixed a litlte more they would have perfectly fit in with what Qurayshi would call the Caucasian Egyptians being apart of the Greater (as in wider) White Race.)
The Arabs are also a product of this ancient mixing between different Negroid elements and Caucasiod element from the North. That is why Arabs in the North (where mixing with Caucasins was more intense) tend to be lighter than Arabs in the south (where mixing was RELATIVELY less intense).
Indians are of this same mixture and you can find this even in their literature which NORTHERN more caucasian indians only try to deny. The Australoid element of the Negroid strain of humanity dominated this area thousand of years ago even into China and in the South East Asian Islands. And all that I am saying here has evidence form ancient sayings of Chinese, African Arabs and Greeks and Romans. All of these Negroid Elements mixed in with Caucasion and Mongloid elements to form the Arabs, North Africans, Indians, and South East Asians that we have today.
But the cover up of all this, by the relatively recent successful cultures of Caucaisan strains of humanity(the Northern Indians and the Europeans) is not new at all. There was a French book, I'll find the title, published by Egpytologists back in the 1800's that stated that it was unbelievable to them that the same Negroes that were in slavery on a grand scale now were the same people who originated civilization (Egypt in particular). Of course these weren't exactly the same people but they recognzied that the Ancient Egyptians were a strain of the Negroid people and this part of the book was edited out in the American version(there is even more modern genetic evidence for the Negroid identity of Ancient Egyptians). I have shown enough evidence (which to Qurayshi may not constitute proof) of what an established mulatoe strain of people looks like and the obvious similarity between Mulato communites that we are sure of, and those of Mulato Communities who's mixtures occurred ages ago. I have demonstrated that the Negroid people are split up into sub elements, Congoid, Capoid, Veddoid and Australoid, all of which have distinct genes from each other, but which doesn't make them any less Negroid.
Qurayshis objection deep in his heart is that the Congoid group of the Negroid group be credited with the formation of the basis of any ancient peoples and be seen as elements of the Negroid group with common origins with Australoids and Veddoids (he has no problem with Capoids as they are found on the African continent). He would love to limit the influence of Negroids, especially the Congoids to Subsaharan African so he would point to evidence that would try to make Australiods & Veddoids a separate race from the Congoids but not question the Capoids at all. And as for the Negroid groups like the Mahris and other groups still found in the Middle east and where slavery is not their answer, he is silent on these topic (he just says that I am distorting the works that show the evidence of the people and their origin in these lands). Yet he will contine to call my claim BS and horse manure and the like. In the end, (which made this conversation so explosive) he did not have the tact to disagree tastfully. As I could just as easliy call his views White Supremacist horse-manure back up by Historiacal White Supremacist thinking as well. But I have not and am not. Because that would be impolite, rude, tasteless and in the end contraindicative to progessive conversation.
In the end, despite al-Jaahiz' (the ancient Black Arab scholar who affirms the extent of Blacks(Negoids) all over the world and especially in the Middle East and the role that Blacks played in the formation of the Arabs) over the board comments about the superiority of blacks, my argument has always been that it is the mixing of Caucasion elements, mongoloid elements and Negroid elements that created the races of southern Asia today. And my only objection is that with the Black Elements playing the earliest and in most cases funamental roles in the establishment of these civilizations how can these people look down on Blacks in any way or form? This wave of thinking also happens in Latin America over and over again, because the Conquerers were the (Iberian) Spaniards and Portuguese Caucasians(though they also had known African blood), so that any Latino that can pass for white (in Most cases White Hispanic which is different than Western European white of US and Europe) will be glad to do this(Mexicans are especially bad about this). And if they can forget about their blackness or its origin in Africa they are happy to do it, despite the fact that they would not be what they are if it weren't for those Africans as well (Mexicans are more Native American than African (except in the south) though Northern Mexicans still have an African element). You don't know how many Black dominicans (with Spaniard and Native American blood) who play the most African Music you've ever heard would rather say that it is Taino Native American music instead of Black. You'll find Cubans to be the opposite, they could be the most White Cubans you've ever seen but they even know what group of Africans are there ancestors down to the tee. In the streets they even speak a African Spanish dialect originating from the Calabari people of Africa who were taken there, among the many other groups of Africans. So I found it funny when Quraishi said that I did not know who I was when I said I could pass for a Latino or an Arab (from North Africa or Southern Egypt ). When I'm not the one who told these things to myself. Others (Arabs and Hispanics) asked me if I was of this origin. I know this Arab Egyptian guy who claimed that this Black American looked like he was Arab and NOT African. Do you see the racism here. This guy is jet black and most likely because of native American ancestry his nose is very straight (however there unmixed Africans who look like this though they are not usually found from west African strains(check out how the British tricked the Watutsi's into thinking they were really Caucasian because of their thin noses and thin lips despite being unmixed blacks to cause dissension). He couldn't rap his brain around the fact that many Arabs look like Black Africans. And that is for a reason. As much as I despise Bin Laden I see a light skinned American black man every time I see him.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Peace,
Here are two interesting sources that have to do with the topic
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egypt_and_race
http//www.catchpenny.org/race.html
I found the second one funny. He first goes into a long speal about how race is not real, which is what all people who can't come to terms with the negroidness/blackness of ancient Egyptians do(it is more than obvious that we are all just different breeds of human beings. No one said that different races means different species. I find that this reveals the true mindset of many Eurocentric Caucasians rather than trying to clear up some misconception that non-caucasians who support Egypt's blackness have.) In the end he offers a (in my opinion) bogus theory about how Egypt became blacker because of the Southern Nubians intermixing with them. Something which is ridiculous and only a resort to still try to claim that Egpyt was originally Caucasiod (or atleast not orignally Negroid). He muddles all that back-treddling all to say plainly in the middle of his article
"That the Egyptians by and large were dark is certain, and many must have been what we today call "black.""
Well that is the whole point of anyone who claims that Egyptians were black! So it is seems that those who claim the opposite are assuming that those who claim this are assuming something that they really aren't. This has to do with the "true negro" theory which you will read about in the wikipedia excerpt and below.
He also gives pictures to prove it.
Let me say this, to all those who don't believe that the Egypitans were black basing their opinions on the fact the ancient Egyptians weren't "true negroes" this falsness has to stop. The issue of the true negro has not been proven at all, as there are many different types of negros that do not fit into the true-negro form, without any proof of mixing. We know there are different types of negroes, but why is it that when Egypt comes up Eurocentrists (and those with Eurocentric residue) will all of a sudden change their definition of black for the ancient Egyptian while they continue to call Black Americans, Sudanese, Somalis etc. black when they describe these people who always don't look like their imaginary "true negro."
In my opinion as I stated before the original egyptians and other populations in the Middle east were orignally black and through the tides of history became mixed in with Caucasiod groups. In some cases this was an indirect mix as these negro populations mixed in with groups that had already mixed between Negro and Caucasiod and had this mix stabilized (Many places in Latin America are clear examples of this stablization and even when this stablizations mixes with a more "pure" negro type). The copts who are historically obviously a mixture of negro and caucasian are in many ways identical to the Arabs (of the peninsula) and others (like east indians) of whom this mixture is either unknown or denied.
There are many people (especially Eurocentric (purposefully or passively) who still don't understand how mixed races between Negros and Caucasians really are and would rather see them as a totally distinct race, unless it has to do with issues of society and civilizaton. That mixed person will become Caucasian if he is bringing something great to society and negro when he has nothing to offer society (except his labor), or in attempts to keep the Caucasian race pure. He is a totally different race if there is a fear that his mixed race may relate to the more Negroid groups and create some sort of real influence contrary to current or historical Eurocentric trends.
I continue to be amazed by my fellow Cauciasian brothers with a Eurocentric mindset who are confused when they come accross black latinos or just ignore and label them as totally separate from other blacks. The same goes for Arabs. My wife's mother is an obvious black latino and her father an obvious mulato hispanic (which is the more dominant as a whole in the Latino scheme, though it depends on the area). My fellow Caucasian brothers usually think that they are different races and are shocked when it is made obvious to them that they are the same people.
That is because the Negroid-Caucasiod mix is a continuation of the Negroid race, sharing features from both to varying degrees. I only say that they are a continuation of the Negroid race because in our recent history any mixture of the two where Negroid ancestry is obvious is still considered a grade of Black/Negro. The fact is that this mixture depending on the degree of mixture and the way in which it stablizes in that mixed population can produce a number of different looking populations from more negroid, to more caucasiod and every possiblity in between. That variabilty is also represented within one population if the mixture is not stabilized (though is is never absolutely stablized). What stands true is that each group(the negro and caucasian) leaves its mark either minimally, significantly or predominantly on the mixed group.
This is important because recognizing that Ancient Egyptians were black (remember we are not limiting black to some "true negroid" that doesn't even really exist) has two effects. It exposes that Historians have had a Eurocentric view on history and have been trying to cover up the blackness of Ancient Egyptians (despite what the ancient romans and greeks said) because they have not been able to stand that Blacks (the same kinds of people they consider black today) really had any monumental role in the development of human society, including European society. It also helps those blacks who have believed that their ability in life was limited somehow by their features and ethnicity realize that this is completely false.
All that stuff about melanin making superior people and Caucasians being naturally weak is ridiculous falsehood from the part of Afrocentrists. Afrocentrism is really no more historically just in it's meaning than Eurocentrism. The truth is that despite some genetic differences (which can be positive or negative) which do occur in some populations of Negros and Caucausians due to genetic drift or concentration (and which can be undone as well by widening the genetic pool) you will not be physically superior unless you train your body, nor mentally superior unless you train your mind and study hard and think, whether you have an abundance of melanin or a dearth of it.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Peace,
Here is a very interesting article on the Arab nations
http//www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=24981
I stumbled upon this as I looked for linguistic evidences to connec Somali, Soqotri, Mahri and Himyarite. In the article there is evidence that Yemenis are not more than than mainly an African and Persian mix, with remnants of the original african still present in isolated Areas and throughout the gulf states and the island of soqotra.
These people made up a big constitution of the Arabs.
Check out this article as well
http//www.unilorin.edu.ng/newsite/INUAGLECTURES/abubakre.pdf
If you want to read the Html version do a google search using these words
hajjam Arabic yoruba hausa
Godblesss,
AnwarReading carefully you will see evidence for this as well as Yemenis migrated north, and how ge'ez had to be used to interpret south Arabic.
I still haven't been able to make the Somali, Himyarite, Soqotri and Mahri connection. Hopefully I can get some good information on these issues.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Peace,
Here is a very interesting article on the Arab nations
http//www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=24981
I stumbled upon this as I looked for linguistic evidences to connec Somali, Soqotri, Mahri and Himyarite. In the article there is evidence that Yemenis are not more than than mainly an African and Persian mix, with remnants of the original african still present in isolated Areas and throughout the gulf states and the island of soqotra.
These people made up a big constitution of the Arabs.
Check out this article as well
http//www.unilorin.edu.ng/newsite/INUAGLECTURES/abubakre.pdf
If you want to read the Html version do a google search using these words
hajjam Arabic yoruba hausa
Godblesss,
AnwarReading carefully you will see evidence for this as well as Yemenis migrated north, and how ge'ez had to be used to interpret south Arabic.
I still haven't been able to make the Somali, Himyarite, Soqotri and Mahri connection. Hopefully I can get some good information on these issues.
Godbless,
AnwarSalaam alaykum.
It is true that the Yemeni are mixed with Africans. I am Somali, my country is close to Yemen (takes less than a day to boat there) and Somalia and Yemen dispute about the rightful ownership of island of Socotra (it's "Socotra" or "Soqotra" not "Soqotri". Anyways, I've met many Yemeni individuals who I mistook for being Somali. And I've never mistaken anyone but Eritreans, Nubians, and Ethiopians as being Somali (and one Kenyan woman who belonged to a tribe who was originally from Somalia or Oromo). They sometimes look startingly like Somalis, but the difference is that they are characteristically and proportionately shorter than us on average. Those on Soqotra do speak Arabic, some speak Somali as well. Their traditional dress is that of a macawiis (strictly a Somali cultural clothing, the Yemeni and Arabs do not wear this), and they do look very much Somali much of the time. So it's clear that they have both Somali and Yemeni ancestry. Yemen is also in dispute over another island with Eritrea. I forgot its name but I believe it's in the same situation as Soqotra. The Yemeni are descended from Somalis and Eritreans (Eritrea used to be part of Ethiopia by the way, in case someone tries to include Ethiopians in this) as well as Arabs and/or Persians.
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I forgot to add that at one point, the former empire that Ethiopians ruled was mighty. It at one point conquered Egypt. It may have always ruled Yemen, during Queen Sheba's time (who was Ethiopian), as people sometimes argue that she was Yemeni but she was Ethiopian. The effects Africans have on Yemeni people and culture (ie. their customs, way of socializing, etc) is clear as well as on their features.
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Peace,
I think some of you are forgetting that the Arabs were originally black and mostly woolly haired (except for tribes like the Shanuwah/Izdashanuwah who were very black but had straight hair. Aboriginal/purer Arabs are still black and mostly woolly haired and can still be found in significant numbers in the Gulf, Saudi Arabia, yemen, Oman, Kuwait and Southern Iraq. www.savethetruearabs.com You can also check out these videos
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=mff_vwfi_o4
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOXF3IsrB70
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzTtV0tLrco
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=nN50GXtyI8M
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvJ0F299kFQ
I also have a long list of quotes from lisanul-arab to post for anyone who reads Arabic. The Somalis are related to the aboriginal Arabs. Their indigenous cultures are also strikingly similar. ALso the ancient Egypians claimed to have come from Punt and the are Ethiopia which they callled the land of the gods. All Roman observers said that the ancient Egyptians were black adn wooly haired like the Ethiopians.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Peace,
I think some of you are forgetting that the Arabs were originally black and mostly woolly haired (except for tribes like the Shanuwah/Izdashanuwah who were very black but had straight hair. Aboriginal/purer Arabs are still black and mostly woolly haired and can still be found in significant numbers in the Gulf, Saudi Arabia, yemen, Oman, Kuwait and Southern Iraq. www.savethetruearabs.com You can also check out these videos
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=mff_vwfi_o4
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOXF3IsrB70
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzTtV0tLrco
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=nN50GXtyI8M
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvJ0F299kFQ
I also have a long list of quotes from lisanul-arab to post for anyone who reads Arabic. The Somalis are related to the aboriginal Arabs. Their indigenous cultures are also strikingly similar. ALso the ancient Egypians claimed to have come from Punt and the are Ethiopia which they callled the land of the gods. All Roman observers said that the ancient Egyptians were black adn wooly haired like the Ethiopians.
Godbless,
AnwarAgreed, except that the Land of Punt is modern-day Somalia, specifically the Puntland region which is located in northeast Somalia, as the frankincense that the Egyptians traded for with the Puntites is native only to that region. My mother and aunts regularly use that incense, it's like an ordinary everyday thing for them, which those ancient people use to covet.
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Secondly, talking about colors does not make you a racist.
Thank you. I wish people would talk about it.
I think it's giving into a mind game to continue to fear the subject.However, if we do all come from Africa, originally, I think it's kind of pointless to sit and go on and on about it
....especially with people pushing the Africa theory and then coming out and saying well, such and such a people
are of a different race, etc.If you split white light with a prism, you get a rainbow.
But light comes from darkness. Mysteries aren't meant to make us stumble.... they're meant to be mysteries. -
Thank you. I wish people would talk about it.
I think it's giving into a mind game to continue to fear the subject.However, if we do all come from Africa, originally, I think it's kind of pointless to sit and go on and on about it
....especially with people pushing the Africa theory and then coming out and saying well, such and such a people
are of a different race, etc.If you split white light with a prism, you get a rainbow.
But light comes from darkness. Mysteries aren't meant to make us stumble.... they're meant to be mysteries.I don't understand your comment. Race i.e. human variation exists. And trying to go back to the human origins of humankind in Africa is a ridiculous and a moot point. I don't talk about humans coming originally from Africa, even if we did, because that is beyond the historical scope of what we are dealing with. No one is going on and on about it. What we are doing is clearing up misconceptions that lead people to make erroneous conclusions and form erroneous opinions.
Godbless,
Anwar -
I don't understand your comment. Race i.e. human variation exists. And trying to go back to the human origins of humankind in Africa is a ridiculous and a moot point. I don't talk about humans coming originally from Africa, even if we did, because that is beyond the historical scope of what we are dealing with. No one is going on and on about it. What we are doing is clearing up misconceptions that lead people to make erroneous conclusions and form erroneous opinions.
Godbless,
AnwarThe only thing ridiculous about referring to Africa and the origins of mankind is the general lack of it.
Judging by the length of your posts, I'd say you were full on obsessed.You use terminology specifically denoting purity or impurity of one's blood.
The last people I remember doing that were burning other people in ovens.Do you understand that?
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Godbless,
AnwarNo, God bless you, brother.
God bless you and your kind so far off the face of the Earth that not even your stupid web posts remain.
Take your horns and your drums with you.
Yeah... that music only applies to blacks, too, doesn't it?You fool.
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I am shocked, progod. "Quranist" and statements like "I had a misconception about my own people (blacks)" doesn't just go toghether. Shouldn't it be "monotheists are my people"? I mean we are calling eachother brothers and sisters here, regardless of race.
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Shadowpuppet,
I engaged in this conversation to have a mature conversation about cultures and race and to bring information to light that may have not been known or may be denied by many because of their investment in erroneous ideas. You seem to be from the latter category. By trying to say I am obsessed with race you are trying to negate or invalidate what I am saying and that won't work. Everything I talked about was pertinent to this topic and important for others to gain a true and better understanding of these things. I can see you would like to call me a 'reverse racist' or just a plain old racist, maybe against white poeple or white civilization, but that would be a blanket accusation that is not only untrue but is a concerted attempt to drown out the real issue. All people have negatives and positives and we must review and weigh all of them. This includes our own selves. I guess that's why you just resorted to insulting me and my posts. Whatever. You are entitled to your own opinion. In my opinion people who have trouble with one truth in life will have trouble with many other truths. But God is the ultimate judge of our lives and our characters. As for the music comment you made, I'm sure you know that was an idiotic and provocative comment. Black people invented horns and drums? That's just stupid.
Paradox Uncreated,
I agree with you and disagree with you at the same time. In the end and most importantly yes, other God-loving, truth-loving, knowledge-loving and sensible Quranists are 'my people.' But because I am apart of certain groups, some of which I chose and others which I didn't that still makes those people my people. The prophet Muhammad's people were the Arabs or his particular clans and tribes, because he was apart of that group. I can say that my family, all Afro-Americans, all Americans, all people from my respective regions (neighborhood, county, city, state), all people of African descent, all black people, all Westerners, all people, all Muslims, and all Quranists are my people. Contextually i was referring to my ethnicity and my erroneous
perception that Afro-American or people of African descent(my ethnicity), and in particular very dark ones did not get sunburn. You can replace 'my ethnicity' with 'my people' if you'd like. I understand what you are saying but I think you are missing the importance of context as it concerns this phrase and what I meant.Godbless,
Anwar -
Hrm! Be careful not to excuse racism, behind the apperance of a learned man, progod.
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Peace,
Whatever you mean by that you should just come out and say it plainly instead of veiling it behind ambiguous jabs. If you find racism in what I have had to say just point it out. If not then hold your peace and contribute in a more meaningful way to the conversation by acknowledging that you have learned something here that you did not know before and how this may have helped your perspective or hurt it. Or you can point out something that I may have missed or misunderstood. I think I have been clear in trying to explain that the intent of all this is NOT racist in nature, but actually counteracts widespread beliefs and accepted ideas that ARE racist in nature. Hence, dispelling lies and untruths and and spreading truth.
Godbless,
Anwar