GIVE ME A BREAK!
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Salam Phoenix1~
Why are you taking this personal? I never directed it towards you. If you fall into the category of people I directed it towards I am sorry if I offended you. I still however stand by every ounce of my feelings and opinion. If you choose not to call yourself a muslim, but one who submits, and you choose to call yourself peaceful or whatever that is fine by me, but all's your doing is taking the meaning of the words Muslim, Quran and Islam, and saying them rather than by their Arabic given names. And Since the Quran was given in Arabic for a reason and purpose, I myself rather stick to the given names. You have your opinion and I have mine. The only thing I ask, is for du'a sake, for newcomers here..please do not try to instantly sway them to your opinion, or rather this opinion, but allow them to think and evaluate for themselves. Obviously like I said, there is a reason why the Quran came in Arabic. Maybe you should go back and read all those Ayats that I posted in SAbboushi thread, on the Arabic. You seem to be missing that poignant purpose.
No ill feelings brother~
Honor
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Salam All,
You know I have been reading many threads, where so many of you are trying to eliminate the need, the purpose, the desire, the foundation of calling ourselves muslims, our religion Islam, and our Quran by its name. You know, I have had it. I am fed up with all of you who take this religion for play, to devise and manipulate and subject others to your perverse and persuaded minds. Have you no Shame?!
If you want to call yourself another name, call your religion another name, call the quran another name, and do It all for the sake that you don't speak arabic, or you dont think it should be in arabic, or whatever ridiculous reason, GO makeup your convuluted and conjectured, misled, transgressed religion somewhere else!
If for those who are questioning the names, Muslim,Islam and Quran for the sake of root purposes, please try to be more authentic, and more solid in your findings. Because So far the Quran is the Quran, a muslim was a name given in the Quran, and Islam is the name of our religion.
Oh, and if any of you who have the need to argue or have some sort of debate, to me, about this, just go to the post on http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13977.0, started by SAbboushi, and read my reply. Also, I am no longer debating with people that try so hard to become something other than a muslim on this forum.
Sorry I know i will have offended some, but why give a **** what I think? You obviously have your solid opinions. And I most certainly have mine. You know, just so you know...most of the people who are doing this ,are very educated and bright and well studied in Islam, but just like a mullah, sheik and hadith scholar, so are many many other people who transgress from what they so brillantly have studied.
Honor
Very well said sister
That is one of the main reaosns I'm as active any more in her
simply they are manpiluating the religion to suit their low desires
see Al Masjid Al Aqsa has been found in Madina
Salam
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Ahmed, I can make the same comment about you, and it'll be equally invalid.
Honor, I didn't take offense to your post. But I am getting annoyed by posts such as the above.
I don't care if you say I'm wrong, or even that I'm delusional, but it's not right to make assumptions about other people's intentions, which only God can know. -
Peace sis "honor",
Yeah you were really being emotional there. Infact the Quran even gives an example which shows tht "islam" aint a name at all
They act as if they are doing you a favor by embracing Submission! Say, "Do not count YOUR ISLAM/submission(islaamakum) asa favor upon me. GOD is the One who is doing you a great favor by guiding you to the faith, if you are sincere."
Here GOD talks about "your islam" clearly using the term as a common and not proper noun with the appended "kum(your; plural)". GOD Bless! -
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muslim=one who is peaceful
Whats the word for "one who strives to be peaceful?"
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Salaam Wakas
peace,
Emotion tends to compromise judgement.
Do not be FOR, nor AGAINST, then all will be clear.
And a " Feeling of Power , Authority tends to Corrupt " .
Shall we just sit on the Fence and see which way the Wind blows ? hail Just kidding Bro Wakas
Cheers
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Salamun alaykum
Try " Pacifist " ( in the broadest sense of the word ) .
Ok I wasnt specific enough, whats the arabic word for pacafist, or someone who strives to be peaceful?
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Peace Samia,
Let me correct you
4914
" The bedounines/Arabs say we became believers. You should rather say we became muslims, because no faith has yet entered your hearts. If you obey God and His messenger, none of your good work will be dcreased".
rather it should beThe bedouins/the people of the forest/desert/wilderness/the Arabs have said "We have faith/We will be faithful." Say "You do not have faith. You should rather say We have been submissive/We will be submissive. Faith/faithfulness has not entered your hearts yet, but if you obey God and/meaning his messenger nothing you do will be belittled in any way. . ."
The difference in the translations was to point out where MUSLIM should have been SUBMISSIVE.
If anyone has questions about the different tenses the perfert tense in Arabic can mean future, past or conditional.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Peace,
You guys must understand the way Old Classical Arabic works. There are common words now for certain concepts but they are standardized whereas Old Classical Arabic works off the the rules of its forms and how they combine with the roots.
In MSA (Modern Standard Arabic ) pacifist is silmeeyun
Aslama is the fourth Arabic form coinciding with Afa&ala
It has a number of meanings. They are all related to the concept of silm(peace/peaceableness), salaam (peace) or salaamat (soundness/safeness/salvation) (from salima)
Aslama can be 'to make peace' , 'to come into peace' 'to come into safety/salvation' 'to greet (make salaam)', to pacify, to bring someone into safety as well apart form Arabic grammatical forms it can mean 'to pay early' to 'submit over' and 'even to quit something or someplace' mostlikely spin offs of this basic concept taken for certain context, paying someone money you owe them early can easily be seen as pacifying them, and from there these specific meanings spread and even develop. I would have to consult my grammar book for other meanings of the form and how this word could have been used then by people who didn't follow standard words but knew these forms and how to use them inside out.
Godbless,
Anwar -
peace Kurt,
so we shouldnt be for or against anything or we wont think clear?
Well, I am for God and against satan, I am for good deeds and against bad ones, is this wrong
No, being FOR God is not wrong necessarily. However, it can compromise your judgement. A perfect example of this is the religious extremists (Christian/Muslim/other) who are so convinced God is on their side they commit injust acts upon others with no consideration.
'al quran' itself requests the reader to challenge it, ponder it, scrutinise it, research out with it, even disprove it etc. What does this tell you about the relationship God wants you to have with Him?Even many good & bad deeds require for you to ponder and consider the best approach. If you mix emotion with trying to do the right thing, your judgement is more likely to be compromised.
Dont get me wrong, at times, emotion can be a good thing, but not when trying to consider and weigh up evidence.
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Peace sis "honor",
Yeah you were really being emotional there. Infact the Quran even gives an example which shows tht "islam" aint a name at all
They act as if they are doing you a favor by embracing Submission! Say, "Do not count YOUR ISLAM/submission(islaamakum) asa favor upon me. GOD is the One who is doing you a great favor by guiding you to the faith, if you are sincere."
Here GOD talks about "your islam" clearly using the term as a common and not proper noun with the appended "kum(your; plural)". GOD Bless!Salam johnny_k
First of all you completely took that ayat out of text.This ayat if you read the entire surah, and ayats before and after, is referring to people who during the time of the prophet Muhammad, took the name of Islam, so as to be like a trend, to be a follower for the sake of just pleasing others, but with no real belief or understanding why they should believe what they do, so that is what this is talking about. NOT as some example so as not to call our religion something other than Islam.
Honor
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Salaam all
Well said JK, and I add
4914
" The bedounines/Arabs say we became believers. You should rather say we became muslims, because no faith has yet entered your hearts. If you obey God and His messenger, none of your good work will be dcreased".Salam Samia~
Sis, please read the reply I made to johnny_k in this thread as you are doing the same thing he did, anyone can take an ayat out of place, and use it at will for something in a refutation, but it is only supported and relevant when you know what the ayat belongs to, meaning ayats before and after. Your ayat, is not good enough to refute my standpoint. You have like johnny_k taken it out of its purpose.
First let me paint this ayat in a story to get across my pointEunice is an Arab man, who along with his arab friends tells others that they meet, that they are believers. But Allah says, rather they should say they became muslims,..because ALLAH is saying NO FAITH YET HAS ENTERED THEIR HEARTS. listen carefully...they say THEY ARE believers, Allah says say YOU BECAME muslim. Them saying they are, means they are telling a falseness, for god knows that no faith has entered their hearts yet, but god telling them they became, is because it will take faith to enter their hearts to become muslims,and that can take time. God is always saying that many go to prayer without intention. Many people say they believe, really do believe, but have lost faith...this happens to people many times. To have faith, to follow the deen, to submit to god in that faith is to become muslim.
This is my opinion and my perception. If you don't agree, no worries. I am not here to argue, but to stay with my point.
May god guide us all, and lift the veil, so that none of us, are deaf, dumb and blind.
Honor
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peace Kurt,
No, being FOR God is not wrong necessarily. However, it can compromise your judgement. A perfect example of this is the religious extremists (Christian/Muslim/other) who are so convinced God is on their side they commit injust acts upon others with no consideration.
'al quran' itself requests the reader to challenge it, ponder it, scrutinise it, research out with it, even disprove it etc. What does this tell you about the relationship God wants you to have with Him?Even many good & bad deeds require for you to ponder and consider the best approach. If you mix emotion with trying to do the right thing, your judgement is more likely to be compromised.
Dont get me wrong, at times, emotion can be a good thing, but not when trying to consider and weigh up evidence.
"No, being FOR God is not wrong necessarily. " Necessarily??? ??? brickwall Wakas, ....I don't know what to say to you, sometimes you render me speechless. God only asks those who disbelieve, who doubt, who are hipocrits to challenge, dispute the Quran. You are absoultely out of line in saying the opposite. You may sound so calm, but your own emmotion is what is causing you to blindly say the wrong things as well. Where is the relevance in your rebuttal to Brother IronSky's comment? You are taking how he believes in God, and is all for God, and making it emmotional, and telling him, he can challenge and even try to dispute the Quran and God gives him permission??? ONLY TO A NON Believer, to do anything otherwise as a believer, would be to transgress,and focus on negative and senseless,wasteless time, rather than believe, accept, sumbit to the truth.
!!! Sheesh!
Peace be with you Wakas, I think you and I have some very different view points.
Honor
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Salaam Honor
Salam johnny_k
First of all you completely took that ayat out of text.This ayat if you read the entire surah, and ayats before and after, is referring to people who during the time of the prophet Muhammad, took the name of Islam, so as to be like a trend, to be a follower for the sake of just pleasing others, but with no real belief or understanding why they should believe what they do, so that is what this is talking about. NOT as some example so as not to call our religion something other than Islam.
Honor
Islam is Islam sister , just like a Rose is Rose , others may call It Magnolia or Poison Ivy but cannot changed the Subtance . So in many ways these people are trying to deceive themselves . As for Pleasing Others , they are called " Mental Shirk " , to which I am asking them to Emancipate themselves from . Perhaps you should start calling them by the meaning of their owns names in whatever language and see if they still Recognize Themselves ? peace
Cheers
p.s. Proper name has meanings , so it can be translated in the 21st century ( The age of Internet yay )
