for you especially: idol.
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Salaams Bro,
you do see this differently from the rest of the bunch - but its good.
333
Does Allah choose who spill blood over who wail because of anguish or who love righteousness or who promote good and a flourishing state for mankind?334
Products of one- from the other and Allah (is) All-Hearing All-Seeing.
As Abraham is made from, Barra (example 2177) and Hamma. The others are similarly deduced.
As you said,They aren?t names in the quran but natures or actions of people and the bible got it wrong as did the translators of the quran ? similarly.
Who can be better in religion than one who submits his whole self to Allah, does good, and follows the way of Abraham the true in Faith? For Allah did take Abraham for a khaleelun.
Khaleelun is plural.
Hath not the story reached them of those before them?- the People of Noah, and 'Ad, and Thamud; the People of Abraham, the men of Midian, and the cities overthrown. To them came their messengers with clear signs. It is not Allah Who wrongs them, but they wrong their own souls.
All these were groups of people and not a single person anywhere.
Abraham was indeed a ommatun, devoutly obedient to Allah, (and) true in Faith, and he joined not gods with Allah
Again ommatun is a community a group ? not a single person.
The people who where tried by the Lord are one and the same here
And remember, We delivered you from the people of Pharaoh They set you hard tasks and punishments, slaughtered your sons and let your women-folk live; therein was a tremendous trial from your Lord.
And remember that Abraham was tried by his Lord with certain commands, which he fulfilled He said "I will make thee an Imam to the Nations." He pleaded "And also (Imams) from my offspring!" He answered "But My Promise is not within the reach of evil-doers."
I can?t believe this! As many of you won?t be able to as well ? I think.
But may be all wrong aswell!
God Bless All.
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Peace Simple
Did you check with anyone with good Arabic knowledge the reason for plural khaleelun and ommatun in relation to singular Abraham? Maybe Ayman, Samia or Anwar should be able to explain the reason for this use.
Did you try applying this to Moses or are we to make an exemption in the case of Moses ?
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Salaams All,Warner,
nice.
Thanks.
Did you check?
Yes Warner - with Quranic Dictionary and lanes.
And there isn't a reasonable meaning of Moosa, so it has to be a name (without a meaning as such).
And with respects you may ask the linguist about the currant Arabic Grammar and things but the quran doesn't go along with that 100%. To my understanding.
Gods Blessings.
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w-s
so mwsa doesn't seem much of a stretch from that, does it?
Well AaRon,
QD says there is no w-s but that it should be w-s-w-s-a and the meanings don't fit in the ayah's.
QD also says the root for MOSES is MOSES - no meaning.
Thanks Br.
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QD says there is no w-s but that it should be w-s-w-s-a and the meanings don't fit in the ayah's.
QD also says the root for MOSES is MOSES - no meaning.
QD? but did you click on my link to lane's?
pages 193-194 of vol.8
and interestingly enough, even though they do not provide the exact example i was looking for, it strikes me that the examples given all have to do with speech. and there is something in the story of mwsa about his speech.
What if Musa is not arabic?
well if i all went and thought these words weren't "arabic" i would be back where i was all those years ago when people told me that the words that i couldn't find meanings for were just borrowed from other languages. btw, that would make those discussions we had in PM invalid.
thankfully i'm not much for believing anything anybody tells me
funny cuz i found way deeper meanings than they ever thought possible... but they don't listen so i don't share
eff a critic
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Salaams Br,
did you click on my link to lane's?
pages 193-194 of vol.8
Yes I did - but if you look at your link each word there has two wa's and two sin's - wsws , there isn't no word with one ws - that is what puts me off.
http//www.islamicity.com/ps/default.asp?UserString=waswasa&ref=&ShowTranslation=on&ShowTransliteration=on&ShowArabic=on
The root you have suggested - five accurances may even be more.
Salaams Br.
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sure, the examples of wsws are there, and not wsa or mwsa... but do you have an alternate root for mwsa or are you going to be satisfied with the view that there is no root?
if there is a root for the rest should there not be a root for all? it would seem consistent.
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Peace
Abraham, Moses and few other names mentioned as messengers in the Quraan
are also mentioned in the Bible in Hebrew and Aramaic.Do you assume these Arabic names were borrowed by the Hebrew and Aramaic Bible writers?
Example Time?!
D2iv Song of Solomon 516
But perhaps the best example to illustrate the difficulty in exchanging one word for another is found in the Song of Solomon, chapter 5, verse 16. In this passage Muslims claim that the Hebrew word "Machmad" (altogether lovely) can be translated "praise" or "Ahmad." Following is the text of the passage as translated in the New International Version Bible
"His mouth is sweetness itself; he is altogether lovely. This is my lover, this my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem."
The book of Song of Solomon is a poetic love story between the Beloved and her Lover. It is a piece that explores the beauty of a marriage relationship between a king and his wife.
Muslims believe that the adjectival clause "altogether lovely" can be changed to a proper noun, "Muhammad." The text should then read, when translated into English"His mouth is sweetness itself; he is Muhammad. This is my lover, this my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem."
This rendering, however, begs a number of difficult questions according to the context of the entire book.Who are the daughters of Jerusalem? Did Muhammad ever court one of his many wives in Jerusalem?
If this is Muhammad, which of his wives is speaking? Was Muhammad ever married to a dark woman he wooed from Lebanon?
Did Muhammad ever claim kingship?
What, then, is this prophecy saying? The underlined words in the text above are the English renderings of the Hebrew word, machmad. Strong's concordance defines machmad as desire, desirable thing, a pleasant thing.So, can Machmad signify Muhammad? Wise men allow that when one verse is in doubt it is justified to explain one passage of the Bible by another. The word machmad appears twelve more times in the Old Testament. Since Muslims are so intent on finding the name of Muhammad in the Hebrew word "machmad," it is important that they remain consistent. Therefore, we have printed these twelve prophetic verses below and leave it to you to ascertain whether they fit. Note that we have been consistent in now translating this word as the long-neglected "proper noun" which they claim it to be.
1 Kings 206 "Yet I will send my servants to thee tomorrow about this time, and they shall search thy house, and the houses of thy servants; and it shall be, whatever is Muhammad in thy eyes, they shall take in their hand, and carry away."
2 Chronicles 3619 "And they burnt the house of God, and broke down the wall of Jerusalem, and burnt all its palaces with fire, and destroyed all its Muhammad vessels."Isaiah 6411 "Our holy and our beautiful house, where our fathers praised thee, is burned with fire and all our Muhammad things are laid waste."
Lamentations 110 "The adversary hath spread out his hand upon all her Muhammad things for she hath seen the nations entered into her sanctuary, whom thou didst command they should not enter into thy congregation."
Lamentations 111 "All her people sigh, they seek bread; they have given their Muhammad things for food to relieve the soul see, O LORD, and consider; for I am become vile."
Lamentations 24 "He hath bent his bow like an enemy he stood with his right hand as an adversary, and slew all Muhammad to the eye in the tabernacle of the daughter of Zion he poured out his fury like fire."
Ezekiel 2416 "Son of man, behold, I take away from thee the Muhammad of thy eyes with a stroke yet neither shalt thou mourn nor weep, neither shall thy tears run down."
Ezekiel 2421 "Speak to the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will profane my sanctuary, the excellence of your strength, the Muhammad of your eyes, and that which your soul pitieth; and your sons and your daughters whom ye have left shall fall by the sword."
Ezekiel 2425 "Also, thou son of man, not in the day when I take from them their strength, the joy of their glory, the Muhammad of their eyes, and that on which they set their minds, their sons and their daughters." Hosea 96 "For, lo, they are gone because of destruction Egypt shall gather them up, Memphis shall bury them the Muhammad for their silver, nettles shall possess them thorns in their tabernacles."
Hosea 916 "Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay the Muhammad of their womb."
Joel 35 "Because ye have taken my silver and my gold, and have carried into your temples my Muhammad things."
If this mutilation of Scripture seems to you ridiculous, it is meant to be as it shows the quality of the theory behind such an idea.
When taken to its logical conclusion it makes a mockery of Hebrew grammar. Why should an adjectival clause be translated a proper noun? Machmad already has a proper noun counterpart, but more closely related to the clause -- Chemdan (or Hemdan), the eldest son of Dishon of Anah the Horite. If machmad should have been written as a proper noun the author would have written Chemdan.Thanks Br Warner.
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Peace Simple
The example you pasted on the Hebrew word "machmad" from the following articles
Muhammad Apologetic Paper by Joseph Smith
Were there prophecies concerning Muhammad?from the following links
http//zionsake.tripod.com/Mud2-final.html
http//zionsake.tripod.com/MuD-No_prophecies.html#Ddoes not answer my question. I was NOT referring to the Arab Messenger Muhammad
since that was not being discussed here.Let me try once,
Abraham, Moses among few others are mentioned as prophets and as proper nouns
In the Hebrew bible. Were these names borrowed from Arabs 2000 years ago? -
Anybody,
Are there two progenies here? Abrahams and prophet Noah?s
Or am i missing something?
006.083
YUSUFALI That was the reasoning about Us, which We gave to Abraham (to use) against his people We raise whom We will, degree after degree for thy Lord is full of wisdom and knowledge.
006.084
YUSUFALI We gave him Isaac and Jacob all (three) guided and before him, We guided Noah, and among his progeny, David, Solomon, Job, Joseph, Moses, and Aaron thus do We reward those who do good012.004
YUSUFALI Behold! Joseph said to his father "O my father! I did see eleven stars and the sun and the moon I saw them prostrate themselves to me!"
012.005
YUSUFALI Said (the father) "My (dear) little son! relate not thy vision to thy brothers, lest they concoct a plot against thee for Satan is to man an avowed enemy!
012.006
YUSUFALI "Thus will thy Lord choose thee and teach thee the interpretation of stories (and events) and perfect His favour to thee and to the posterity of Jacob - even as He perfected it to thy fathers Abraham and Isaac aforetime! for Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom."Is Joseph from Abrahams or Noah?s progeny?
God Bless Br.
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Abraham, Moses and few other names mentioned as messengers in the Quraan
are also mentioned in the Bible in Hebrew and Aramaic.Do you assume these Arabic names were borrowed by the Hebrew and Aramaic Bible writers?
they are mentioned in the forms consistent with those languages, not the exact arabic forms. the fact that the names are similar has to do with the fact that the languages are related. the root meanings are not necessarily the same, but in some cases they may be the same or related.
it's not really that difficult
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Peace Simple
Did you check with anyone with good Arabic knowledge the reason for plural khaleelun and ommatun in relation to singular Abraham? Maybe Ayman, Samia or Anwar should be able to explain the reason for this use.
Did you try applying this to Moses or are we to make an exemption in the case of Moses ?
Salam
whoever claims that Khalil is plural in the following verse is a clear cut ignorant and should be dismissed
(125)
500% the word Khalil in 4125 is singular
well, another case of severe manipulation to the Arabic Quran on this web site has been caught red handed
I seek refuge by Allah
Salam
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Did you check on the Hebrew meanings of these words?
i pretty much concentrate on lookin for the english meanings... but alot of bible stories contain a story about why a certain person became named a certain way. i won't say these stories are necessarily true but it should be pretty standard to accept that most ancient names carry a word meaning of some sort. that's why you can look up the meaning of names on babynames.com
so disagreeing with the known meaning is alot different than disagreeing with the understanding that all names have meanings.