I Threatened a bunch of women
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Wa alaikum assalaam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu to those who follow the straight path
Well well well Yusha, what a 'hadith thumper' you are. Before joining this forum did you even bother exploring the main page and some of the articles to find out about our position regarding Islam especially involving hadith? I think someone should put a condition upon joining the forum which states 'Thou shalt read the articles available first before joining this forum and getting engaged in discussions.'
Peace,
I confess brother I haven't read any articles on this particular website, but I have read plenty of ones on the submission.org website, which is also anti-hadith and anti-sunnah, etc. In any event, I will now take some time to go through several articles here at free-minds.org
yusha, you mentioned before that you have a wife.
and from your posts i can see how you feel about women,
all i gotta say is, how you got a woman to marry you is beyond me.I think you are confusing a statement of mine where I said "IF I had a wife and kids, I would do this and this, etc.,"
I am 18 years old, though I should be married by now, unfortunately I dont think Im ready`(financially), so I dont have a wife or kids.
I must protest that you think I am anti-woman, I have nothing against woman, but I am very strongly pro-gender roles, and I believe in what Allah has revealed about the nature of woman, which time and again even secular psychologists and sociologists have confirmed.
And finally, I will not need to find a woman, because in my culture (Pakistani) we have arranged marriages.
You do not need to abandon the hadiths if you are not comfortable, but focus and read the Quran more and more, and maybe, you will find a better opinion of women, and even a better connection with the understanding of Gods wants and desires for us. You must understand that when you are able to quote hadiths and the prophet from them, more than the word of the Quran, then you are far away from the connection of God in his divine book. When you can read the quran and use its words for your argument, you will have more respect from others, as well as more understanding, when approaching your perceptions and beliefs. You have your own right to believe in the hadiths, but again I encourage you to focus on the Quran.
Actually, if you have gone through several of my posts on this forum, you will find that my quotes and references of Holy Quran far outnumber my quotes of ahadeeth. I study the Holy Quran on a daily basis, for at least an half an hour after Fajr prayer, and more intensive independent study after I come back from school. As for hadeeth, I do not have a single compilation except for the famous Riyadhus Saliheen, but apart from that I only have access to hadeeth from online sources. So you can see that my study of Holy Quran far outweighs my study of hadeeth. Furthermore, I also believe that while Muslims should never abandon ahadeeth or degrade its status as a source of divine guidance, we need to concentrate more on the Holy Quran.
Jazak Allah khair.
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Peace be with you Yusha,
That was a mature reply on your part. I just thought I'd mention I'm glad you didn't take the words from other members as attacks, even though some were emotionally driven.
I study the Holy Quran on a daily basis, for at least an half an hour after Fajr prayer, and more intensive independent study after I come back from school. As for hadeeth, I do not have a single compilation except for the famous Riyadhus Saliheen, but apart from that I only have access to hadeeth from online sources. So you can see that my study of Holy Quran far outweighs my study of hadeeth.
Good for you! I would like to see some healthy debate especially after you read some of the articles on the main page.peace
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PEace Be Upon You All
I second Bro Zenje's last post! yes
Bro Yusha, as a woman, I can assure you we are no more or less prone to any temptation than man is.
The fact is, men and women are designed differently and it is a beautiful thing. Women in general are more in touch with intuition and feeling and hence have a different experience than men. You cannot have all the beautiful gifts that a woman has of being able to bring forth life and fruits of love into the world and not be intuitive and sensitive! In fact this actually gives a running start for women on their spiritual path that men would need to catch up with. Women also have better communication skills than men.
Men are alot more goal oriented and logic driven. Feelings and intuition somehow are bypassed or just dismissed as irrelevant in the thought process. Different parts of men's brains work than the parts that women use in everyday conversation. When told a problem men will automatically problem solve while women will want to talk it out. That's why its sometimes difficult to understand where the opposite sex is coming from. Men have steps and rules and logic governs their world in an overpowering way at times.
So yes there are differences but they complete each other. This is why marriage and a family unit is so important.
However, we each have both the feminine and masculine within us. We need to nurture both sides in order to stay balanced. Women must balance their inuitive and feelings power by grounding themselves in logic and action and men must balance their ego-loving logical fix-it-yourself power with inner repose.
I can assure you that all of this does not equate to a woman being less than a man or more evil than a man. In fact she is blessed as man is too. i reject the hadith that states that the majority of the inhabitants of hell are women. Why? Because Mohamed was a man and as such cannot possibly know what hell is like and who will go there. This is the dominion of God Alone. Secondly, as Bro Tanveer pointed out, heaven and hell is based on your spiritual growth according to quran and absolutely nothing to do with gender, hence the reason why you see BOTH MEN AND WOMEN being repeated in those verses.
You are still so young and impressionable. I encourage you to keep experiencing all the life lessons that God has offered for you and think about them. Those are ayat in and of themselves
Be Well
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Actually, if you have gone through several of my posts on this forum, you will find that my quotes and references of Holy Quran far outnumber my quotes of ahadeeth. I study the Holy Quran on a daily basis, for at least an half an hour after Fajr prayer, and more intensive independent study after I come back from school. As for hadeeth, I do not have a single compilation except for the famous Riyadhus Saliheen, but apart from that I only have access to hadeeth from online sources. So you can see that my study of Holy Quran far outweighs my study of hadeeth. Furthermore, I also believe that while Muslims should never abandon ahadeeth or degrade its status as a source of divine guidance, we need to concentrate more on the Holy Quran.
Jazak Allah khair.
It is good to know that you study Al Quran more than hadiths. However, according to my observation of your views, it seems that you understand Al Quran in accordance with hadiths instead of the other way around.
By the way, do you live in England bro?
Peace,
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And finally, I will not need to find a woman, because in my culture (Pakistani) we have arranged marriages.
Maybe things are not the same in different parts of Pakistan. I married my Pakistani husband about 5 years ago. I visited there a total of 3 times and I also lived there for nearly a year and a half in 2002 (in which time we married). In all of my husband's family history no one has ever had an arranged marriage.
While it is true that his family searched to find a suitable mate for his 3 brothers, 1 sister, and himself... it was ultimately up to the brothers and sister if they agreed. If they didn't agree then the family continued to look more until they finally found someone they agreed to marry. And... in 3 of them (2 brothers, one which is my husband, and the sister), they chose their own spouse.
Peace to all,
dotty
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By the way, do you live in England bro?
No I actually live in Canada.
Maybe things are not the same in different parts of Pakistan
You are very right. Pakistan has changed a lot from what I heard. My family began to leave mostly in the 70s an 80s, and extended family continued to settle in Canada well into the 90s. Whenever they go to Pakistan to visit they always note how it is becoming more liberalized. The Punjab used to be very conservative and under the influence of religious clerics, but most of that has changed, for the worse I believe.
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You are very right. Pakistan has changed a lot from what I heard. My family began to leave mostly in the 70s an 80s, and extended family continued to settle in Canada well into the 90s. Whenever they go to Pakistan to visit they always note how it is becoming more liberalized. The Punjab used to be very conservative and under the influence of religious clerics, but most of that has changed, for the worse I believe.
Although I am sure Pakistan has changed a lot since the 70's and 80's, as most countries have, I wouldn't say that Pakistan is becoming more liberalized just because parents give their children a choice to say no to a prospective spouse.
I find it honorable that families are considering the fact that it is ultimately their child's life and they are the ones who need to be happy... not just the parents.
BTW, I spent all of my time in Lahore and Islamabad and found many people there to be absolutely wonderful and full of respect.
Peace,
dotty
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Peace all,
Secondly, as Bro Tanveer pointed out, heaven and hell is based on your spiritual growth according to quran and absolutely nothing to do with gender, hence the reason why you see BOTH MEN AND WOMEN being repeated in those verses.
I also quoted the verses that show that "mankind" and "human being" are called "ungrateful" by The God (1767, 1006), not just women. Apparently one of the posters here believes that women will far outnumber men in hell based on their "ungratefulness", by accepting the word of some fabricator who falsely attributed those lies to the Prophet. He forgets that because "mankind" is ungrateful, it indicates that men and women are equally ungrateful. He also forgets to tell us what will happen to the men who were ungrateful. He also does not quote any verses from the Qur'aan (or even the false ahadeeth !) indicating that only women are ungrateful or that less men than women are ungrateful.
This poster apparently fails to understand that this shows a clear contradiction between the fabrication that he quoted and the relevant verses of the Qur'aan. He upholds and actively propagates the baseless words of an enemy of the Prophet (6112, 316) over the word of The God, thereby degrading/defaming the Prophet and misleading others (316). He apparently "studies" the Qur'aan without making any effort to "understand" it using his God given gifts of mind, reason and logic and strives to cause others to follow something without any knowledge against the advice of 1736.
It appears that he fails to understand that according to the Qur'aan itself, it is fully detailed ( 6114, 12111, 1712) and contains every example (1789, 3927) and clear explanation of everything (1689) relevant to our guidance. Perhaps he does not accept that the Qur'aan is enough for our guidance (2951) or that the Prophet followed only the Qur'aan (1015, 4105).
I wonder what his answer will be to the questions asked by The God in 7185, 456, 7750, and 6837-38.
I hope he does not argue using falsehood to overshadow the truth with it (1856) and is not at the stage of 1745-46. I hope that he stops following conjecture (6116, 1036) and realizes that conjecture is not a substitute for the truth (532 and pray that The God guides him.
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peace
is there a hadeeth that says what would happen to women if they prayed in mosques or went to school and learned something?
would they go to hell? for praying in mosques? or learning something?because i haven't read in the qur'an that women in hell will say "we prayed in mosques and now we have to burn for it"
it can be clearly seen that these hadeeth were written by men, (maybe lonely and angry men who were turned down by a lot of women).
qur'an says that believers have to pray, not just men.
as for the learning, we all have to do it, to understand the qur'an and other things, to grow, and i think it would be wrong not to learn, or to forbid someone else to learn. -
You know it annoys me that everyone likes to have a go at people that follow hadiths. We all just focus on differences.
From my childhood I've been taught hadiths. Some I definitely will disagree with some I would agree with. Some stories can impact and be character building in a good way.
In this context I can tell you that there is no "HARAM" or ?wrong? in going to a mosque and praying or even be there and do nothing, according to ?hadith followers? and there is no "HARAM" in getting an education. In fact its prescribed, cultural issues is what stops education not religion.
The Christians were taught books are evil, and the Muslims were taught to always seek knowledge be it male or female. And now if we look at things the world you can kinda see it the other way.
Culture?s influences and importance one places on it ruins religion (in my opinion). It takes over it, in life it appears the culture takes preceding over religion and through that generations come by and adopt it.
You know what they say if you want know if a group is high in status look at their women, look at their mothers. It?s pretty obvious why they say that in most cases the child is brought up in the hands of their mother much more than their father so the mother would have more influences.
So who ever says you can?t pray you can?t learn and are hadith followers are just a bunch of losers who are hypocritical to their own hadiths. Anyway I know mosques here in Australia the access to women is limited because more men go to the mosque to me that?s a reasonable condition. Ok you might think women can prayer with men but to their understanding they can?t pray next to each other, you don?t need to accept their belief but at least tolerate it. You know why? because no one will get up and open their mosque no one is going to start a community that will have voices heard. Even if it did happen there is no solidity in the group there is weaknesses. The truth is most people are just talk.
Also another thing, There is a hadith saying if you pray at home it is better for the women, though in no way does it object women to go pray at a mosque. So that?s the only thing I can come up with that is seen as ?negative?.
Anyway salam.
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peace
so there is no such hadeeth. so bsically they just made up those rules.
i find them unacceptable. if i hear a hadeeth that sounds ok and is not contradicting the qur'an maybe i'll think about following it.and about that hadeeth that says it's better to pray at home for a woman,
i'll write a hadeeth and say it's better for a woman to pray at a mosquewhich one would you follow?
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Asalaamu Alaykom,
No I didn't go appearantly its not meant for me to go because alot has happened to me. Sometimes I wonder if God is punishing me for the negative thoughts I have had about hadith followers. I am realizing that I don't have to be against one thing to be for another and that Islam is not black and white rather its a way of life that is right.
I went on islamicfinder the other day and discovered there is a mosque here in town. It surprised me because this is a small hick town in the middle of Kentucky. Then when I went to the dr with my father his doctor who is Muslim informed me that the mosque is mainly for men but women can attend juma3 prayer which I think I will next Friday. He told me that the women are normally busy during the week so they dont go. I dont really care because when I get a job I probably won't go either after I get a job down here.
I unfairly judged these people and their way of life and for that I am sorry. Nothing in this life gives me the right to judge how another lives and that is what I try so hard to stand against. I live my life and hope God will forgive my mmistakes for now and if I can teach some people something perhaps its the mistakes I am learning from as make them.
If people chose to follow hadiths thats up to them. Certianly there are inspirations in some hadiths if you look closely enough. I sometimes wonder if the reason I don't follow hadith stems from my own arrogance. Isnt it safer to follow those who know more than I than to follow my own desires? The confusion has caused me to hault in my deen. I live and exsist now and perhaps that is why my tests have grown to another level thats almost unbearable.
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Salaamun alaiki WW,
If people chose to follow hadiths thats up to them. Certianly there are inspirations in some hadiths if you look closely enough.
The Qur'aan calls itself hadeeth. There is nothing wrong in following ahadeeth that do not contradict the Qur'aan or add to it, for our guidance to the straight path. As far as ahadeeth other than those, I don't think there is anything wrong in following a hadeeth as long as one does not consider it guidance to the straight path or a decree from The God conveyed by the messenger.
Remember that The God tells us in the Qur'aan that it is fully detailed (6114, 12111, 1712), contains every example (1789, 3927) and clear explanation of everything (1689) relevant to our guidance to the straight path and is enough for our guidance (2951) and the Prophet followed only the Qur'aan (1015, 4105). The question that then arises is why do we need to even consider the so called "sunnah" and "hadeeth" according to the sectarians (based on unverifiable sources), despite these clear signs from al-qur'aan ?
I sometimes wonder if the reason I don't follow hadith stems from my own arrogance. Isnt it safer to follow those who know more than I than to follow my own desires?
Are you sure those who deny and reject the clear signs of the Qur'aan are knowledgable ?
The Qur'aan is the best "hadeeth"
3923 God has sent down the best HADEETH (ahsana alhadeethi), a Scripture that is similar with two paths. The skins of those who reverence their Lord shiver from it, then their skins and their hearts soften up to the remembrance of God. Such is God's guidance; He guides with it whoever He wills. And for whomever God misguides, then none can guide him.
What will be the answer of the believers to the question asked by The God in the following signs
487 God, there is no god but He. He will gather you for the Day of Resurrection in which there is no doubt. Who is more truthful in HADEETH than God?
7185 Did they not look at the dominion of heavens and Earth, and all that God has created? Perhaps their time is drawing near; so in which HADEETH after this one will they believe?
456 These are God's revelations that We recite to you with truth. So, in which HADEETH after God and His revelations do they believe?
6836 What is wrong with you, how do you judge?
6837 Or do you have another book which you study?
6838 In it, you can find what you wish?7750 So in what HADEETH after it will they believe?
The people who accept baseless "hadeeth" to mislead from the path of The God will have a humiliating retribution
316 And from the people, there are those who accept baseless HADEETH (lahwa alhadeethi) to mislead from the path of God without knowledge, and they take it as entertainment. These will have a humiliating retribution.
We should disregard the fabrications and fancy words "inspired" in each other by the enemies of the Prophet and falsely attributed to him
6112 And as such, We have permitted the enemies of every prophet, human and jinn devils, to inspire in each other with fancy words in order to deceive. Had your Lord willed, they would not have done it. You shall disregard them and their fabrications.
The above sign also implies that The God deliberately allowed the existence of the fabricated "hadeeth" to test the people whether they follow The God's words or the words of human and jinn devils and their desires !
SO YES, HADEETH ARE REVELATION FROM THE GOD, o BUT ONLY THOSE HADEETH THAT ARE FOUND IN THE QUR'AAN !!
Those who believe in the fabricated hadeeth as revelation from The God are inventing lies about The God and also denying His revelations and they will have a terrible retribution
621 And who is more wicked than one who invents lies about God, or denies His revelations! The wicked will never succeed.
6157 Or you say "If the Scripture was sent to us we would have been more guided than they!" Clarity has come to you from your Lord, and a guidance and a mercy. Who is more wicked than one who denies God's revelations and turns away from them? We will punish those who turn away from Our revelations with the pain of retribution for what they turned away.
737 Who is more wicked than one who invents lies about God, or denies His revelations? These will receive their recompense from the record; so that when Our messengers come to terminate their lives, they will say "Where are those whom you used to call on besides God?" they said "They have abandoned us!" and they bore witness upon themselves that they were rejecters.
1017 Who is more wicked than one who invents lies about God or denies His revelations? The criminals will never succeed.
May The God guide us all to the straight path and give us the strength and patience to follow His words rather than the majority of the people who wish to mislead others
6116 And if you obey the majority of those on Earth they will lead you away from God's path; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.
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Salam Yusha,
Pakistan is a diverse, interesting and colorful country... are your famlily from Punjab?... what 'gao' does your family belong to?
peace!
My family is from Multan.