Is divorce simple?
-
Salaam all,
Can a man divorce his wife just by saying "I divorce you" three times in Islam or is divorce paperwork also necessary?
I understand the law of waiting 3 months before the divorce is final, but I am wondering if paperwork is also necessary.
I'm thinking the answer is no... because I don't believe paperwork is a requirement of marriage either.
Thanks,
dotty
-
Can a man divorce his wife just by saying "I divorce you" three times in Islam
There is no mention of this in the Quran so not unless it's the law of the land you're living in.
The Quran can be interpreted to say that the couple should first try to work things out.. then possibly a trial separation, and then divorce followed by the waiting period before remarriage for the woman..
The paperwork is the law of the land as opposed to Islamic or Quranic law..
Peace,
Nurd
-
Peace dotty,
I think paperwork is important, just as witnesses are. It's something you should have as proof, if you ever needed it. And this applies to most such transactions (marriage/will/business transactions/etc.)
Example
- O you who believe, if you borrow for a future period, then you shall record it. And let a scribe of justice record it for you; and let not the scribe refuse to record as God has taught him. Let him record and let the person who is borrowing dictate to him, and let him be aware of God, and let him not reduce from it anything. If the one who is borrowing is immature or weak or he cannot dictate himself, then let his guardian dictate with justice; and bring two witnesses from amongst your men; if there are not two men, then a man and two women from whom you will accept their testimony, so that if one of them becomes occupied, then the one can reminds the other. And let the witnesses not refuse to come if they are called. And do not fail to record it no matter how small or large until its maturity. That is more just with God and better for the testimony, and better that you do not have doubts; except if it is a trade to be done on the spot between you, then there is no sin upon you if you do not record it. And have evidence if you trade. No scribe shall be harmed nor any witness; for if you do so then it is vileness on your part, and be aware of God and God teaches you and God is aware of all things.
-
Peace Nurd & zenje,
The thing which both of you are saying makes sense. So, although the Quran doesn't specifically say to "record" the marriage/divorce, we can take the example from 2282 and apply it here. As I understand it, the only thing the Quran specifically says is to have 2 witnesses for a divorce. I do realize that most countries require divorce documents for legal purposes, but I was just wondering if it was God's law.
Thanks for your help.
dotty
-
A thirtyfive page article, covering and quoting all Ayah on the subject of "Divorce" is available in Urdu on this link
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/paker/09/slides/1.htmlIt highlights that, as in marriage of a man and woman, society is a party in Divorce too society is a party. Nikah/marriage actually grants approval of the society for establishing a particular relationship between a man and woman. It cannot be called merely a personal matter of a man and woman. Similarly divorce is not merely personal matter of a husband or wife to be left to their whims, caprices and prejudices. If things are left to the exclusive decisions of individuals the result will only be "Fasad". Ayahs also use a word "Maa'roof"; known practice of the soceity.
-
Salaam all,
Can a man divorce his wife just by saying "I divorce you" three times in Islam or is divorce paperwork also necessary?
I wonder how the Sunnists came up with such a cool way of divorce. ;D ;D ;D
But the Bible's way is a bit cooler
"When a man takes a wife and marries her, and it happens that she finds no favor in his eyes because he has found some uncleanness in her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce, puts it in her hand, and sends her out of his house."
(Deutoronomy 241) -
Can a divorced couple remarry each other?
by Rabbi Eyal RavnoyNot only is it permitted, it is considered a Mitzvah to remarry a divorced spouse.
There is one exception to this rule, and that is if the wife married another man after her divorce from Husband A, and she is then divorced or widowed from Husband B -- in such an instance it is forbidden for her to be remarried to Husband A.1
This sounds cruel to you? I must first point out that any law can be construed as cruel just because it's cruel for the fat cats to have bags of money while the poor wallow in astonishing poverty, it's not justifiable to steal from the rich and give to the poor--that's a direct violation of the Torah law prohibiting theft. (Yes, Robin Hood was a thief!)
The Torah wants people to understand that when they get married, they are making a commitment for life. If it doesn't work out, they are allowed to divorce...And now to our case. This law proves how sensitive Judaism is to the human condition. It is mandated to avoid two potential harms to society open marriages and irresponsibility.
Imagine a couple who get a little bored with each other. Instead of finding out what is wrong in the marriage, or getting help in improving it, they say to each other "Let's get divorced and marry other people. If that doesn't work out, or if we miss each other too much, we'll divorce again and get married to each other for the second time." This is not only a lack of commitment, but also unfair to the partner of the second marriage. In other words The Torah wants people to understand that when they get married, they are making a commitment for life. If it doesn't work out, they are allowed to divorce--but there is no back-door exit to marriage, through which one can pass freely as he or she wishes.
Without this law, the following far-fetched scenario might be anything but. Imagine a greedy couple meeting a rich single guy. The husband and wife make an indecent proposal to each other. They get divorced. The wife then gets married to the rich guy--and then divorces him, collects half of his total assets, and goes back to her original husband. They're rich and still in love with each other, building their fortune on the ruins of the formerly single guy's life. Irresponsible ideas like this one is what the Torah strives to cancel out.2
-
Yes apparently.
My husband divorced me - by text message.
I thought at least I have 3 months before its final, maybe we can reconcile.
But no he says,
The 'iddah' (acording to his great and wise scholars) is just a time for me to wait until I remarry again, NO chance for reconciliation (I've begged and I've asked), NO financial support (not that I'd take it, I didn't marry him for his money).
The dowry was to be the house he got for me in his country, he says he will keep it 'in memorial' of me (wtf, I'm not dead!) and 'the biggest loss of his life', but I can't go there, I can't be with him and he doesn't want me in his life.
He wants nothing to do with me (i am a useless wife - not a good enough muslim - too independent (I barely leave the house) - too disobedient for his liking)
And so thats it, one text message and I am no longer his wife!
I have absolutely no comeback.
3 years and a lot of flack from my family. We go through the process to get permission in his country, I have the visa in my passport as his wife.
His family all know (don't like it but they know),
And 1 text and its all over.
Its shameful.
So much for 'women's rights in Islam' -
salaam dragonflies,
I am sorry to hear this news. I also read the post that you started regarding this. I don't know which country you are in, or the country of your disrespectful husband, but it is sad...... so sad. It sounds as though you can manage without him, which I recommend if it is possible.
The sad part is that in your country you may not have the option of marrying again, by law anyway... if it is a western country. Maybe I am wrong.
I too married a man in Pakistan, without his families approval, but he has come back to the states with me and we have been together for 5 years now. I understand the family issues because my husbands family still fights with him on the phone regularly over our marriage. I don't have the fear that my husband will leave me, but the constant fighting with his family is hard on him. You would think after 5 years they would learn to accept it, but no way... not yet, and I don't see it ending any time soon. My husband has to shut our phone off from time to time to have a break from them.
If you do reconcile with your husband, then it may very well happen again and again like this over time.
I pray that you find peace in this experience and that God gives you a man who can love and respect you.
peace,
dotty -
Yes Joe, such a man's dream - so much that I get dropped like a hot potato.
Every action had an islamic point to back it up - his Islam does not have women's rights.
Yes I am loyal& maybe too easy to forgive, but I'd rather be that and get burned than unfaithful and get away with it.Thanks for your post Dotty. I'm going through so many mixed emotions right now, hurt, anger, love, hope, pain. But I know time will heal, eventually. He's not a man to change his mind once he's made it, he's in the gulf and I know if I'm honest with myself, I will never see him again.
I didn't chose to be a muslim because of him, and I won't leave because of him, But sometimes everything islamic reminds me of him. Even Quran, I remember hearing him recite that surah or something and it just hurts. voodoo
-
Peace
Should some loyalties be severed at some point?
Why "too easy to forgive"? Does that mean you forgive where forgiveness leads to accepting the behavior so that the very same forgiveness to the same act occurs again and again?
You say "his islam". Is this the islam you believe in? If it is not why put up with it when it is a point of negativity in your life?
I do not think you need to counter a negative with a negative, but sometimes flexibility is helpful.
Joe
-
Drgonflies,
A pratical point. Is your marriage recorded in your country? That is, are you legally married to him in your country? Because if you are, I am afraid that the phone message won't change that and in order to be free you may have to go through a divorce procedure in your country yourself. Either that or you should get a certificate or proof of divorce from his country, so that you can take it to the records in yours and have or civil status changed.
You have to get through this and over it. He has behaved like one of two things a hypocrite or a coward. That is his problem. Your problem is to cut loose and not waste your time and yourself in something without a future. Love yourself a little even if nobody else does. Although I am sure many persons do love you, but do not get hung up on a person that rejects love and faithfulness and being "such a man" as to kick you indecently, is not a man to face other people. A given word is a given word. If it is broken, what can you not expect?
Stick to yourself and to the sense of your own value. People's attitudes in the west, particularly those of western women, are shaped by too much hanging on the prospect of romantic or couple love. It takes such a place in our prospects and minds that we get compltely caught in the grooves. It is nice while it lasts, this romantic phase, and we should be grateful for enjoying it. But, as it happens mostly it doesn't last long. We must accept its end as we accepted the beginning and while it lasted. Now it is over, get on with your life and make a clean paper break. It is unfortunate that his family was such barrenness. Trust God and what He has in store for you and don't forget that even the drabbest life in the world, if it is ours, is a fantastic life, a beautiful one and a TREASURE.
Take care,
Salaam
-
Salaam dragonflies
I think your divorce by a text message is not legal. You better check with his embassy in your country and finalize the matter in the proper way. You must have a certificate of divorce to protect you. I imagine that this man would appear suddenly in your life when you have remarried and forogt about him, to accuse you of having multiple husbands. Then a text message will not save you.
You seem unwilling to fight for your rights for fear of loosing him definitively. That's sad and pathetic! Why would you want to live with a man who does not fear God? He will not get you back, so at least get your rights back (your allowance and the house, which I would suppose recorded in your marriage certificate as your dowry). Don't tell me you don't have a marriage certificate either!!
Most men who are too controlling will not want a too submissive wife, because she is not enough a challenge to them.
-
In his country previous judgess accept a text message as valid - he will just have to register it. He may or may not let me know. Unfortunatelt its a closed country& I will not be able to go there or chase this up. I'm figuring if it is a valid divorce there it will be recognised here. InshaAllah khair.
Thanks for the tough talk, I need to hear it. Being 'abandoned' is a horrible feeling, It hurts now, and I'm venting online rather than let my family see what he's done to me, I know this is only a tempory blip & have no intention of being beaten down by it.
sun -
In his country previous judgess accept a text message as valid - he will just have to register it. He may or may not let me know. Unfortunatelt its a closed country& I will not be able to go there or chase this up. I'm figuring if it is a valid divorce there it will be recognised here. InshaAllah khair.
Salaam dragonflies
It's a good sign that you accept the "tough talk" with high spirit. It means you are willing, and realistic enough, to get over this sad experience.
You do not have to go there. The consular section should be able to get you your certificate. You may consult a lawyer who will get you your other rights. May God grant you peace and victory.
-
Dear Dragonflies,
There are international conventions for everything, there are diplomatic, consular channels. Those informations you need cannot be denied to you. ?Have you kept the message where he divorces you? Keep it. Don't lose it. Find out about the legal situation. Your foreign affairs Ministry should help you. Say you want to know what the legal situation of your marriage is. And take it from there. And if he hasn't divorced you or recorded a divorce, you should get ahead with it. You do not have to break with islam, your interest in islam, your interest in the country that happened to be his, nor anything. He didn't make of you what you are, you don't owe him a change in your natural thirst for learning, not even any learning connected with his origins or culture, and remember that in every culture there are good and bad apples. Don't let that make bitter for you any fruit of this earthly garden. Get your independence. May be be you have never had it. Maybe you were dependent on your romantic dream... Never mind. It is not wrong, but it is a dream. Now you are awake, and the world is open for you. Do not be afraid. You have become a fuller person, a more courageous person and you must not see what has happened as something negative, but as something that is making you stronger, wiser, more compassionate, more capable. And, just as a marginal matter don't worry, he will pay for it, he is paying for it, and may be he will learn, or may be he will learn when he makes the same mistake several times, or when he is trapped in the web of his own making... so if you have any sense of injustice on this, do not worry. This is about the most certain thing.
Solve your legal standing and as Samia riminded you, get as much of your economics rights protected as it is possible. And put paid to the whole thing. May Allah make it easy for you.
Salaam