Who built the kaaba that is in Mecca?
-
Tanveer
There is ZERO evidence of existence of Mecca during the revelation of the qur'aan.
There is ZERO evidence of existence of the so called Kaaba in Mecca during revelation of the qur'aan
As Abraham raised the foundations of the shrine, together with Ismail (they prayed) "Our Lord, accept this from us. You are the Hearer, the Omniscient
"Our Lord! make of us Muslims, bowing to Thy, and of our progeny a people Muslim, bowing to Thy (will); and show us our place for the celebration of (due) rites; and turn unto us (in Mercy); for Thou art the Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.Is this Prayer of Abraham and Ismail still unanswered??
If these prayers are been answered then KAABA in MECCA is the Place and Surely Abraham and ISmail have built it.The best speculation a sincere and logical person can come up with is that Ka?ba was undoubtedly established and Hajj instituted some time during the the visit of Abraham to Mecca. There is, in fact, evidence that can prove this speculation. For example, the examination of pre-Islamic Arab poetry.
"Mecca," is the word, "makorba," or "temple." The religion of the pre-Islamic Arabs was a mixture of Bedouin polytheism, Judaism, and a little bit of Christianity. The pre-Islamic Arabs worshipped three goddesses, al-Lat, al-Uzza, and Manat, who were all daughters of one god, Allah?this one god was probably derived from the monotheistic religions of Judaism and Christianity. Mecca was the center of this religion with its Ka'ba, or "Cube," which served as the temple for the religion.This exactly tallies with what Quran tells us; The religon of Abraham has been corrupted and people had made daughters of Allah, therefore you (Muhammad) have been sent to bring them back to the original.
-
Hajj - The pilgrimage to Mecca required of every Muslim at least once in his life.
Haji - 1. A Muslim who has made the pilgrimage to Mecca. 2. In the Near East, a Christian who has made a pilgrimage to the Holy Sepulcher at Jerusalem.
(The Reader?s Digest Great Encyclopedic Dictionary)
Therefore the concept of Piligrimage is not so unique among Muslims. As some of brothers are so impressed by Westeren and non muslim propganda they have started their own version regarding this, we should look in to matter further deeply
It is curious that the concept of hajj pilgrimage is no longer known in the Western Judeo-Christian traditions, although as pointed out by the definitions quoted at the beginning of this article, a pilgrimage with a similar name is still practiced by the Eastern Christians.
These are some of the prophets whom GOD blessed. They were chosen from among the descendants of Adam, and the descendants of those whom we carried with Noah, and the descendants of Abraham and Israel, and from among those whom we guided and selected. When the revelations of the Most Gracious are recited to them, they fall prostrate, weeping.After them, He substituted generations who lost the Contact Prayers (Salat), and pursued their lusts. They will suffer the consequences.
Most of them forgot the actual teachings and stopped HAjj and Salat and other duties. They for got what is written in BIble
How lovely is Your dwelling place, O Lord Almighty! My soul yearns, even faints for the courts of the Lord; my heart and my flesh cry out for the living God. Even the sparrow has found a home, and the swallow a nest for herself, where she may have her young a place near your altar, O Lord Almighty, my King and my God. Blessed are those who dwell in Your house; they are ever praising You. Blessed are those whose strength is in You, who have set their hearts on pilgrimage. As they pass through the Valley of Baca, they make it a place of springs; the autumn rains also cover it with blessings...? (Psalm 841-6)
This psalm is also known as the psalm of the pilgrimage. It seems to reflect the children of Israel?s ancient longing for the House of God that their patriarch Abraham had built in Baca (Becca), and their ancient practice of making a pilgrimage there. In a sense, it confirms what historian Ibn Ishaq wrote in the 8th century AD about the ancient Jews who used to make a pilgrimage to their patriarch Abraham?s temple in Mecca, centuries before Ibn Ishaq?s time. They stopped the practice when the inhabitants of the city turned into ?unclean polytheists.? Their setting up of idols around the Ka?ba, and the blood which they shed there, presented an insurmountable obstacle for them (Guillaume, op.cit., p.9).
The Holy Scriptures of the Jewish Publication Society retained the name Baca, but used ?the highways? instead of ?pilgrimage? (although still in the context of the road to pilgrimage). The crucial passage is now read ?Happy is the man whose strength is in Thee; in whose hearts are the highways. Passing through the valley of Baca...? The New American Bible?s 1977 edition of the Catholic church, on the other hand, kept the word ?pilgrimage? but translated the proper name ?Baca? using its secondary meaning ?the mastic tree.? The passage read ?Happy the men whose strength you are! Their hearts are set upon the pilgrimage. When they pass through the valley of the mastic trees,....? and its true meaning is irreparably lost.
Indeed, in Arabic and Hebrew, the word becca/baca also means ?the mastic or the balsam tree.? Another meaning of the word is ?the overflowing tears.? These two meanings fit the description of Mecca as well. Mecca is a place where these evergreen trees are found in abundance (the Meccan balsam is a well known name in pharmacopeia). Furthermore, the commemoration of God?s Name - and God alone - during hajj, truly brings tears to many a pilgrim?s eyes.
Needless to say, the most reliable source from a Muslim?s perspective is the word of God in the Quran. Historical records also supported the Quranic assertions that the concept of one God, as well as the salat, hajj, fasting and charity practices of Abraham were apparently preserved by his descendants from Ismail. This could have been one of the reasons, and certainly God planned everything, that the Final Testament - the Quran - was sent down to complete the religion of Abraham through Muhammad of Arabia, who came from Ismail?s line.
-
Also mate, Ibrahim was never caled Rasool in the Quran, he was only called Nabi as far as I remember, i.e. Ibrahim was never sent to any people with a message from God, He was only a Nabi, i.e. He was to tell the people (no specific people) around him about God and the JD, no laws to follow
Salam
Peace
Er..
I believe a Prophet is automatically a Messenger but a Messenger is not necessarily a Prophet... ( a bit off topic, worth noting though ) -
Peace all,
As Abraham raised the foundations of the shrine, together with Ismail (they prayed) "Our Lord, accept this from us. You are the Hearer, the Omniscient
"Our Lord! make of us Muslims, bowing to Thy, and of our progeny a people Muslim, bowing to Thy (will); and show us our place for the celebration of (due) rites; and turn unto us (in Mercy); for Thou art the Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.Is this Prayer of Abraham and Ismail still unanswered??
If these prayers are been answered then KAABA in MECCA is the Place and Surely Abraham and ISmail have built it.This is clear proof how some people are twisting and distorting The God's words for their desires.
Firstly, the word is "bayt"/house and NOT "shrine". Shrine is a pagan tample containing pagan idols.
Secondly, the relevant sign NEVER says that Abraham raised the foundation of the house, but CLEARLY says that Abraham raised the foundations FROM/"MIN" the house. It is "qawa3id MIN/FROM albayt", not "qawa3id albayt".
2127 And as Ibraheem raised the foundations FROM/MIN the house with Ismaeel "Our Lord accept this from us, You are the Hearer, the Knowledgeable."
Thirdly, nowhere does al-qur'aan say that the house is in Mecca, but CLEARLY says "bibakkata" (396). The God does not make typos, unlike some people who believe so.
There is ZERO evidence of existence of a town in Arabia called Mecca prior to the 8th century CE.
Since Abraham lived many centuries prior to the 8th century CE, then he couldn't have been to a town called Mecca.
The best speculation a sincere and logical person can come up with is that Ka?ba was undoubtedly established and Hajj instituted some time during the the visit of Abraham to Mecca.
Subhanallah, He makes Rajah accept from his own words that he is SPECULATING !!
6116 And if you obey the majority of those on Earth they will lead you away from God's path; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.
1036 Most of them only follow conjecture. While conjecture does not avail against the truth in anything. God is aware of what they do.
There is, in fact, evidence that can prove this speculation. For example, the examination of pre-Islamic Arab poetry.
What is considered pre-islamic poetry has been CLEARLY proven to be POST-QUR'AANIC INVENTIONS. Please see the following
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8182.0
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9527.0
"Mecca," is the word, "makorba," or "temple."
More evidence of clear cut twisting !! The word used in al-qur'aan is "makkata" meaning "destruction", and has nothing to do with the so called Mecca or "makorba" or "temple". There is ZERO evidence of the existence of a town called Mecca prior to 8th century CE, and this name was hijacked from the common noun "makkata" from al-qur'aan later on.
There is also no evidence in al-qur'aan of the house being in Mecca. According to the qur'aanic evidence, the so calld Kaaba in Mecca does not meet ANY requirements of "albayt alharaam" and thus cannot be what is mentioned in al-qur'aan.
Mecca was the center of this religion with its Ka'ba, or "Cube," which served as the temple for the religion.
There is ZERO evidence of existence of a town called Mecca or the so called Kaaba during the time of revelation of al-qur'aan.
This exactly tallies with what Quran tells us; The religon of Abraham has been corrupted and people had made daughters of Allah, therefore you (Muhammad) have been sent to bring them back to the original.
The religion of Abraham has indeed been corrupted. Evidence of this corruption is the so called Kaaba in Mecca, in the form of a black cuboid idol which symbolizes the pagan idols and the stone in a dilated vulva shaped enclosure symbolising the crown of the newborn fertility goddess coming out of a dilated vulva, and the "foot print idol", and the pagan rituals of mindlessly spinning seven times around those idols and kissing them.
All this has NO BASIS from al-qur'aan and clearly indicates a continuing love for those filthy pagan idols and rituals. These pagan practices were incorporated into the islamic system ater the death of the Prophet by the pagan hypocrites and it is degrading and insulting to the Prophet to insinuate that he must have sanctioned these filthy pagan practices.
-
Peace all,
Indeed, in Arabic and Hebrew, the word becca/baca also means ?the mastic or the balsam tree.? Another meaning of the word is ?the overflowing tears.? These two meanings fit the description of Mecca as well. Mecca is a place where these evergreen trees are found in abundance (the Meccan balsam is a well known name in pharmacopeia). Furthermore, the commemoration of God?s Name - and God alone - during hajj, truly brings tears to many a pilgrim?s eyes.
More misleading statements.
Following are the meanings of "BKK" from Lane Lexicon
= Ba-Kaf-Kaf (e.g. bakka) = pounding or crushing (al-&unuqa (on) the neck) (daqqul-&unuqa), distinguishing/ranking above others (farraqahu, kharaqahu), jostling, pressing or crowding(crowdszahm), any crowding(or crowds), competition. (izdihaam) heaping/piling together/amassing (taraakib), super-imposition of things on top of other things (taraakim), a man/male having or the trying to have sex with a female, denial or rejection a thing or person's dignity, to humiliate, cancellation/dissolution/breaking, being in need or being stout, muscular or rough, from activity.
bakkah n. 396
As clear from al-qur'aan, following are the criteria for the house
- First and foremost it is anywhere the people who administer it do not setup any partners with The God (2226).
- In this location, the people who administer it invite ALL PEOPLE to the "hajj" (2227), not just people from a certain religion.
- They purify it from all forms of idolatry (2226).
- The house is not just a place of assembly but it is a SAFE place of assembly (2125).
How can "bakkata" imply Mecca when the so called Kaaba in Mecca does not meet ANY requirements/criteria of "albayt alharaam" laid out in al-qur'aan ?
Please see the following again
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14268.msg128048#msg128048
-
AOA
there is ZERO evidence of existence of a town in Arabia called Mecca prior to the 8th century CE.
So the historically established and accepted facts that Mohd being orphan, brought up by his uncle, having a cousin named Ali, Mods grandchildren being involved in a battle at Karbla, migrating and returning to Mecca etc are all fabricated & no one has noticed these minor errors in history.
Secondly I suppose you will now able to present the evidence that the Town called Mecca in South Arabia was established in the 8th century as you do not believe what the history books tell us about Mohd or Mecca. If you wish to turn history inside out then you must provide strong evidence.All this has NO BASIS from al-qur'aan and clearly indicates a continuing love for those filthy pagan idols and rituals. These pagan practices were incorporated into the Islamic system after the death of the Prophet by the pagan hypocrites and it is degrading and insulting to the Prophet to insinuate that he must have sanctioned these filthy pagan practices.
No doubt you will now qualify your statement by providing some evidence as to when, where and by whom these practices were incorporated into Islam. If you are unable to do so then you fall outside any recognised form of Islam as you will be practicing a religion which has never been practiced by anyone before.
regards
-
AOA Ra-jah
Nice; very nice.
Thank you.
-
Hi, other than the Hadith, I would LOVE, I mean this literaly, LOVE to see a source showing that Muhammad was a orphan, brought up by his uncle, had a cousin, Ali, whose children were involved in a battle at Karbala, and who returned to Mecca.
Frankly, I don't know what on Earth to believe from that period of time aside from this lovely book. Mainly, I want to see evidence that Abraham moved to Mecca, which is miles and miles away from his starting point. I also want to know, why God, who all this time based his AO (area of operations) in Jerusalem, suddenly decided Mecca would be a nice resort to conduct from.
-
Peace all,
Who cares exactly when, where and by whom the pagan practices were adopted. The qur'aanic evidence proves that the Prophet did not indulge in those pagan practices, but apparently the qur'aanic evidence is not enough for some.
3936 Is God not enough for His servant? And they frighten you with others beside Him. And whomever God sends astray, then for him there will be no guide.
The system of islam has been practiced by plenty of people before. Does Noah, Abraham, Ismaeel, Ishaaq, Moses, Jesus etc. ring any bell ?
4213 He has decreed for you the same system He ordained for Noah, and what We inspired to you, and what We ordained for Abraham, Moses, and Jesus "You shall uphold this system, and do not divide in it." Intolerable for those who have set up partners is what you invite them towards. God chooses for Himself whomever He wills; He guides to Himself those who repent.
The part in red above is a perfect illustration of the behavior of those who love the filthy pagan idols, and who will come up with any excuse to keep loving their filthy pagan idols.
The staunch disbelievers will not believe even when the clear qur'aanic proofs are presented to them.
6104 "Visible proofs have come to you from your Lord; so whoever can see, does so for himself, and whoever is blinded, does the same. I am not a watcher over you."
4083 Then, when their messengers came to them with clear proofs, they were content with what they already had of the knowledge. And that which they ridiculed became their doom.
My response to those who insist on idol worship
4066 Say "I have been forbidden from serving those whom you are calling upon besides God, since the proofs have come to me from my Lord. And I have been commanded to submit to the Lord of the worlds."
-
Idol worship or not, could you substantiate your claims with more evidence? Otherwise you reduce yourself to a Sunni's argument.
-
AOA all
48;24
And He is the One who withheld their hands against you, and your hands against them in the interior of Mecca, after He had made you victorious over them. God is Seer of what you do.
Free minds translation, or check any other translation. Not Arabic speaking but the word Mecca seem even obvious to me. Is this another pagan conspiracy?
regards
-
AOA all
48;24
And He is the One who withheld their hands against you, and your hands against them in the interior of Mecca, after He had made you victorious over them. God is Seer of what you do.
Free minds translation, or check any other translation. Not Arabic speaking but the word Mecca seem even obvious to me. Is this another pagan conspiracy?
regards
bravo
-
stillearning you aren't paying attention... tanveer is trying to tell you that every word except makkah is being translated when the word makkah should be translated along with the rest.
so of course you see "mecca" in that translation because it hasn't been translated as it should be
anyways y'all enjoy facing your brick. have fun! P
-
AOA Aoron
Your fellow new sectist has been repeating again & again that there is zero evidence of Mecca in the Quran...Of course I must have misunderstood him unlike you
stillearning you aren't paying attention... tanveer is trying to tell you that every word except makkah is being translated when the word makkah should be translated along with the rest.
Very kind, perhaps you will be kind enough to point this out where he made this specific point.
so of course you see "mecca" in that translation because it hasn't been translated as it should be
Feel free and educate us with your translation.
anyways y'all enjoy facing your brick. have fun!
'( Off course when dealing with such intellect an knowledge like yours.
-
Wow, winner!
It does say Mecca in the transliteration and all...
Edit Arabic script also.
God knows how this is explained apart from the obvious.
-
Wow, winner!
It does say Mecca in the transliteration and all...
Edit Arabic script also.
God knows how this is explained apart from the obvious.
Yes, now we have found the Mecca in the quran as well, lets see how we translate it now...interesting quest.....hehehe
-
AOA Aoron
who the hell is Aoron?
Your fellow new sectist has been repeating again & again that there is zero evidence of Mecca in the Quran
well you know there are alot of things tanveer and i disagree on so i wouldn't go jumping the gun and calling us fellows or new sectists
and i would venture to guess that he was referring to mecca the city, not makkah the word... but feel free to twist his words if you like, it's up to you... and something between you and him for you two to deal with
Feel free and educate us with your translation.
feel free to actually be sincere in your desire for knowledge or don't ask me to explain things to you when you aren't going to listen anyways... what's the point?
anyone who is that interested can get themselves a dictionary and go over the possible meanings and decide which they feel best suits the situation.
Off course when dealing with such intellect an knowledge like yours.
off course when dealing with a potential candidate for dental surgery such as yourself
anyways if you're that stuck to your belief then have at it, i don't post here for the benefit of the likes of you anyways )
-
48;24
And He is the One who withheld their hands against you, and your hands against them in the interior of Mecca, after He had made you victorious over them. God is Seer of what you do.
Free minds translation, or check any other translation. Not Arabic speaking but the word Mecca seem even obvious to me. Is this another pagan conspiracy?
regards
Z The silliness of it all...I would advise our fellow pagans to at least become aquainted with the arguements proposed by Ayman, Tanveer, and others pertaining to "Mekka" before venturing off into strawman/ignorance land.
I know, its difficult to read stuff that doesn't agree with one's "father's beliefs" but, trust me, its better than looking like a fool.
Based on the etymologicial, lingusitic, and archeological evidence, the word "Mekka" in verse 4824 should be translated as "destruction" or a "wearing down"..
Ayman In the classical Arabic dictionaries, the word "maka(t)" mainly means "destruction/wearing down", among other meanings. It is listed in classical Arabic dictionaries under either MKK or MK.
Al-Mohit lists it under MKK, the meaning given is destruction and wearing down which is consistent with the context of standoff in 4824. It also lists the meaning of TMKK as an adversary's insistence on something, which is also consistent with the standoff in 4824.
Lisan Al-Arab lists it under MK and the meaning of MK(t) is given as "destruction" and TMK as "destroy".
Al-Wasit lists it under MK, the meanings given are sucking everything out, insisting on revenge from an adversary, and the thing, which is worn down or destroyed.
Al-Ghani lists it under MKK, the meanings given are sucking, insisting with demands on an adversary -
Peace all,
Thank you brother Zeljko for the explanation.
In Arabic language, proper names are not capitalized. So how can one differentiate a common noun from a proper name ? If the meaning of the word fits in the context, then it cannot be a proper name.
Any word whose meaning makes sense in the context MUST be understood as a common noun. On the other hand, proper names are meaningless labels that don't reflect the truth about what is being described. For example, when talking about the administrator of this website, Layth is a proper name. However, if I say ""lyth" is the king of the jungle and he preys on weaker animals" then this is most likely a common noun meaning "lion".
The common NOUN meaning of "makka" as "destruction/wearing down/insistence on the adversary" fits perfectly in the context of 4824. Hence it cannot be a proper name. The pagan hypocrites hijacked this common noun from al-qur'aan and renamed one of their towns containing their pagan shrine to match this common noun some time after the death of the Prophet. The fact that the common noun "makka" fits in the passage in al-qur'aan is enough proof that present day Mecca is a fraud.
Following is the translation of 4824 using Classical Arabic dictionaries and the context of war to translate the word "makkat"
- And it is He who has restrained their hands from you and your hands from them in the midst of destruction/wearing down after that He gave you the victory over them. And The God sees all that you do.
Please see the following for details about "makka"
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9281.0
The building named as Masjid Al-Aqsa is a similar example. It was built by the Umayyads at the end of the 7th century, many years after the death of the Prophet and hence even the staunchest of sectarians are forced to admit that it cannot be "al-masjid al-aqsa" mentioned in al-qur'aan.
From archeological evidence, we have many examples of approximate stone cubes whose height is larger than the other dimensions (like the so-called Kaaba) bearing the name Dhu Al-Shaara and not the alleged name Kaaba. This confirms that, like the other stone cubes found elsewhere, the black stone cube in what is presently called Mecca was named Dhu Al-Shaara and not Kaaba.
The name was changed from Dhu Al-Shaara to Kaaba to match the common noun "kaaba" (base) in al-qur'aan. This way, the pagan practice of spinning seven times could be resumed while pretending to be following al-qur'aan.
The fact is that we know from archeological evidence that the Nabataeans celebrated the festival of the birth of Dhu Al-Shaara. We have manuscripts of letters written by Epiphanius the bishop of Salamis, Cyprus in the 4th century AD describing cults with mother-gods such as the Egyptian, Greek, and Nabataean cults. It is interesting that he described the birth celebrations of Dhu Al-Shaara as culminating with circumambulation seven times around the inner sanctuary of the pagan temple. For example please see Langdon, S., Semitic Mythology, The Mythology of All Races, Vol. V. Boston Archaeological Institute of America, Marshall Jones Company, 1931.
Pagan is as pagan does.