Who built the kaaba that is in Mecca?
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ayman
You claim that "qiblah" is a pagan stone cube while the great reading tells us that our target is the truth from our lord.
Wrong!I never claimed that "qiblah" is apagan stone cube.
Unfortuntely, Saifullah and Rajah are so blinded by the logical fallacy of appeal to authority of the easily manufactured Hadiths and their chains of transmission that they forget to notice that the content is idiotic and is actually making fun of passages such as 2115 which tell us that "to the god belongs the east and the west".
You still donot know my stance on Hadith.
Who suffers from lack of knowledge? Is it idiots who defend a Hadith that is sneakly making fun of the word of the god and urinate and defecate while facing the east and the west or is it those who expose the fact that this is absurd? Saifullah and Rajah can hapily defecate and urinate while facing the east and west but they shouldn't claim that this "Hadith stuff" has anything to do with real knowledge.
That is to be decided but the link which yu posted, clearly shows your lack of knowldge regarding HAdith Stuff.
This is why the above comment from Rajah examplifies everything that is wrong with Sunni dogma and its inherently blind followers.
You again are assuming; wrong.
C'mon Rajah, do you really expect to come here and convince people of anything using what you claim to be logic when you defecate and urinate while facing the east and the west? I think that you need to start by being logical yourself so that you can be credible.
Well I think I am more logical then you atleast, not shifting the "Bayt" and "Qibla" whenever and wherever according to your wishes.
Qiblah is important because it gives us a sense of unity, uniformity and discipline. If there were no Qibla, we would pray as isolated groups with no connection to one another facing where ever we like and as you said making the piligrmage wherever we like. Qiblah gives us a focus, a common sense of purpose, a direction. But you will not understand this because you as the most of modren day christians think that Religon is one's personal matter, it is! but the uniformity and discipline are necessary which can only be attained through a common "Target".
In S?ra Al-Baqara v.143, we read
"The fools among the people will say "What has turned them from the Qiblah to which they were used?" Say To All?h belong both East and West; He guides whom He pleases to a Way that is straight. "
Read the above Ayat, and tell us that if Qiblah or the "target" is not physically a direction then why does Allah say
"Thus have We made of you an Ummah, justly balanced, that you might be witnesses over the nations and the Messenger a witness over yourselves. And We appointed the Qiblah to which you were used only to test those who followed the Messenger ......
So Allah appointed a "target" of truth to test those who followed messenger, and then read the above verse "The fools among the people will say "What has turned them from the Qiblah to which they were used?"
Now if this "Qiblah" is not physical direction then the whole Ayats when read togather donot make any sense.
"We see the turning of your face (for guidance) to the heavens; now shall We turn you to a Qiblah that will please you. Turn then your face in the direction of the Sacred Mosque; wherever you are, turn your faces in that direction. The people of the book know well that that is the truth from their Lord. Nor is All?h unmindful of what they do."
So you mean to say that the Prophet was not happy with the "target of truth" assigned to him by Allah, and was always asking Allah to change the "target" AMAZING VERY AMAZING; AYMAN.
But, apart from the precise physical direction we must face, what really is the purpose of facing towards Makka and aligning ourselves with the Qiblah?
I would like to quote the following paragraph
Whenever we begin our salaat, we not only face the House of All?h in Makka, but we also connect ourselves, along an invisible line, an axis that proceeds from every point on earth, to the Spiritual Centre of Islam. Whether we pray alone, or as recommended, we pray in a group, we do so as a part of the great Ummah or Community of Islam. Standing and facing Qiblah in our prayers, connects us along an invisible line, to every other Muslim on the planet. We become an important link in the huge chain of worshippers who face Makka at least 5 times each day. If we could go up into space and look down on the earth and see all the Muslims at prayer, we would see a huge flower the size of the earth, opening and closing its millions of petals. Each of those petals represents a Muslim at prayer. And those of us who have been blessed with the invitation from All?h to perform Hajj or ?Umr?h, will remember that remarkable sight inside Al-Harram al-Shareef. There, at prayer times, it is asif a giant flower opens and closes its petals, as Muslims prastrate as one body, in neat and orderly rows, around the Kaaba.
So, Qibla is not only about degrees latitude or longitude on the compass. It?s about bringing together every nation, language, race and tribe on this planet, in regular acts of worship linked to a common centre. Qibla lies at the very heart of the great Ummah of Islam. Qibla is the navigational axis that connects every Muslim through the Holy Kaaba in Makka, to every other Muslim. This is the physical expression of Tauh?d, the belief in All?h?s oneness, All?h?s Unity. Because All?h is One, therefore His Ummah is one, and our Qiblah, our direction for worship, is one.
another important verse
"We inspired Moses and his brother, 'Maintain your homes in Egypt for the time being, turn your homes into Qiblah's, and maintain the Contact Prayers (Salat). Give good news to the believers." 1087
In this verse we notice that the word used is "Qiblah". So the homes of Moses is a Qibla for time being telling us again that it is a PHYSICAL place.
I think the first Quranic mention of any Qiblah was in connection with the time of Moses, as per the previous verse and though Abraham and Ismail built the "Bayt" but I cannot find any verse regarding the "Bayt" being Qiblah at the time of Abraham.
I have quoted the following verses from bible before this
When Daniel knew that the document had been signed, he went to his house where he had windows in his upper chamber open toward Jerusalem; and he got down upon his knees three times a day and prayed and gave thanks before his God, as he had done previously."
So this again tells us Physical direction towards which we have toface.
Allah Ho Akbar.
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Raj-ah
I have not learnt a single useful and constructive thing from you. You keep on babbling using quotes with no references.
Your logic is appalling.
You are manipulative in your discussions trying to steer people towards your point of view, or stir emotions to confuse the issues.
You call people names because they do not agree with you.
You are obsessively paranoid, seeing christian and zionist plots everywhere, whereas if you think about it, the Muslims have never had it so good in the West.
You are looking for a cheap and easy way out, forcing the issue that Makkah is the Safe Place for Pilgrimage, a barren out of every trade routes land, that nobody is interested in, apart from the claim that are made that it is the House of Allah, you think that Allah is cheap, and that He will not test the Believers as He promised in the Quran (Do you think you will say I believe and not be tested as were tested the ones before you).
Just use your brain for a change and think what are the implications of Jerusalem hosting the House of Allah (instead of being transfixed by paranoid zionist plots).
Really you are the extremist (and maybe you should spend a few years in Guantanamo to cool down a bit)... -
When Daniel knew that the document had been signed, he went to his house where he had windows in his upper chamber open toward Jerusalem; and he got down upon his knees three times a day and prayed and gave thanks before his God, as he had done previously."
So this again tells us Physical direction towards which we have toface.Which is Jerusalem ???
You were proposing that we should face a cubic brick in an arabic city called Mecca, but you're quoting a verse which explicitly tells a story of some pious man praying and give thanks to God three times a day facing Jerusalem.
Your "logic" is surely strange brother...Salam
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Which is Jerusalem
You were proposing that we should face a cubic brick in an arabic city called Mecca, but you're quoting a verse which explicitly tells a story of some pious man praying and give thanks to God three times a day facing Jerusalem.
Your "logic" is surely strange brother...Salam
When you dive in without knowing what is going on then these kinds of posts occur. Dear Jaffar we are discusing the stance of ayman at the moment, and i hope you know what his stance is?
Yosemite you are doing the samething, we have discussed regarding the stone etc. please read the whole debate if you realy want to comment.
Nabster
Raj-ah
I have not learnt a single useful and constructive thing from you. You keep on babbling using quotes with no references
I have the same feeling for you. It is always hard to deal with a person who wants to destroy a worship place with millions of people in it with tom hawk missiles, you have same mentality as the writer of "Prophet of Doom".
The best I can explain your will of destroying Kaaba by Tom hawk isSHAME
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Ra-jah,
You seem to enjoy the Islamic medieval era and the current Muslim dark ages, so stay therein, but please keep away from polluting others' minds with your distortions, oki?
That also applies to the dudes in the other extreme who look at everything as being a metaphor and allegorical in The Quran...
PS Question for you Why did the Talebans detonate the Buddha statues in Afghanistan?
and by the way, my Tomahawk missile analogy was rhetorical, I said they would still rebuild it if it were destroyed, what we need in fact are Tomahawk missiles aimed at sanitizing rotten mind sets! -
Nabster
Ra-jah,
You seem to enjoy the Islamic medieval era and the current Muslim dark ages, so stay therein, but please keep away from polluting others' minds with your distortions, oki?
That also applies to the dudes in the other extreme who look at everything as being a metaphor and allegorical in The Quran...
PS Question for you Why did the Talebans detonate the Buddha statues in Afghanistan?
and by the way, my Tomahawk missile analogy was rhetorical, I said they would still rebuild it if it were destroyed, what we need in fact are Tomahawk missiles aimed at sanitizing rotten mind sets!No dear I am not enjoying, infact i am crying! I can understand your position your emotions, they can be understood as we are having the darkest times, But being emotional is not the solution.
TAliban did wrong! if the Buddah's statues were placed in House of Allah then they had every right to remove them, similarly if there is some thing which we think after proper verification is Idol in House of Allah we should remove it, and if we don't have the power we should inform more and more persons regarding the truth until your voice becomes the majority. Like Muhammad Bin Wahab did hundred years ago according to his understanding. -
we are having the darkest times
Back to Jahilliyah age huh?
No wonder; maybe because Allah is not on your side?
Allah promises victory to "his people" and shameful defeat to "his enemy".
And Allah always keep His promises. (100% guaranteed)Like Muhammad Bin Wahab did hundred years ago according to his understanding.
Ah no wonder you're a wahabbiyah...
Salam
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Nabster
No dear I am not enjoying, infact i am crying! I can understand your position your emotions, they can be understood as we are having the darkest times, But being emotional is not the solution.
TAliban did wrong! if the Buddah's statues were placed in House of Allah then they had every right to remove them, similarly if there is some thing which we think after proper verification is Idol in House of Allah we should remove it, and if we don't have the power we should inform more and more persons regarding the truth until your voice becomes the majority. Like Muhammad Bin Wahab did hundred years ago according to his understanding.Peace,
Yeah the talibans were terrible wrong but it only prove how small brains they have. They have never consider the kaaba itself as an idol and there goes my eyes rolling again ).
I really wonder when humans are going to be idolfree hmm
Majidah
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Your innocence and dumbness brings a smile to me. Thanks God people like you still exist.
Can you confirm whether or not you are a Wahhabi?
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Can you confirm whether or not you are a Wahhabi?
Normal people don't get any stamp on their back for the confirmation of religion. That was only huzoor who got that stamp of prophethood on his back so that people can confirm he was a true messenger of God and no fake like others. All praise to God!
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Can you confirm whether or not you are a Wahhabi?
Quran has Chosen the word "MUslim" for those who believe
But if you turn away , I have not asked you for any reward; my reward is only with Allah, and I have been commanded to be one of al-Muslimin (10.72).
And the same did Ibrahim enjoin on his sons and (so did) Yaqoub. O my sons! surely Allah has chosen for you faith, therefore die not unless you are Muslims.
and I am a Muslim.
Wahabi is after name of a person, Ahmedi is after a name of person, Quraniyoon is after name of a Book, Sunni is after the actions of a person, Shia is after the "Group" of a person
But I surely am a Muslim and pray for all of us to become a MUSLIM. -
Alright, can you confirm whether or not you follow his doctrines & teachings? There is only so much "taqiyah" you can do...
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Some pictures
http//www.3dkabah.com/
http//idata.over-blog.com/0/46/18/86//int--rieur-de-la-ka-bah.jpg
http//nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/AfbeeldingKaaba_interior.jpg -
Alright, can you confirm whether or not you follow his doctrines & teachings? There is only so much "taqiyah" you can do...
Who's doctrines and teachings besides Allah's do I have to follow?
alright, I confess, I did it! I built the kaaba that is in Mecca!!
Surely you are a LIAR!
SweetenedMAjidah
They have never consider the kaaba itself as an idol and there goes my eyes rolling again .
I really wonder when humans are going to be idolfree
Kaaba is the House of Allah and it is not an Idol.