Who built the kaaba that is in Mecca?
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The issue is a contentious one and the traditions report disputes about it among the Companions and Successors (see companions of the prophet). In spite of this qurnic verse which treats tamattu in a rather matter-of-fact way even though it does say that an offering must be made by anyone who takes advantage of it, and in spite of traditions which tell us that the Prophet told his Companions to avail themselves of muta (but one often involving a different understanding of it to that just summarized) at the time of the Farewell Pilgrimage, there are reports that some Companions and caliphs (see caliph) disapproved of and even forbade it. The caliph Umar figures prominently in such reports. Nevertheless, the Sunn schools of law (madhhabs) all recognize the validity of the procedure and the Shs (see shism and the qurn ) even recommend it as the preferred way of performing ajj.
A related verbal form occurs in q 424 (m stamtatum bihi minhunna), where it clearly refers to the sexual enjoyment of women by men, and the word muta is more widely known as the name of a form of temporary marriage (q.v.), where the contract specifies for how long the marriage will last (see also marriage and divorce). This form of marriage, as is well known, is generally rejected by Sunn Islam but it is accepted as valid by the Sha. In order to distinguish between it and the muta that may be involved in making pilgrimage it is sometimes called mutat al-nis and the latter mutat al-ajj. Traditional scholarship and many modern scholars have insisted on the essential distinctness of the two forms of muta. A b. Ab Rab is quoted as insisting that the muta connected with ajj is so called because it involves making umra during the months of the ajj and ?enjoying? or ?benefiting from? the umra for (or until?) the ajj; it is not so called, he insists, because it makes permitted the enjoyment of women (wa-lam tusamma l-muta min ajli annahu yuallu bi-tamattui l-nisʾ. Some modern scholars, however, have argued that the two mutas were originally closely connected, essentially that the premature abandonment of irm in the case of mutat al-ajj was intended to allow the pilgrim to resume normal sexual activity and that the temporary liaisons allowed by mutat al-nis were associated with the making of ajj. The evidence and competing views have been extensively investigated by Arthur Gribetz.It may be that this qurnic passage also reflects the merging in early Islamic times of the previously distinct rituals of ajj and umra. The preferred way of performing ajj and umra ? whether both separately, both combined, or one of them only ? is much discussed and variously evaluated in Muslim law. A few scholars have gone further and envisaged more radical discontinuities in the development of the Muslim sanctuary and the rituals associated with it. Some have suggested the transference not only of ideas but also of ritual practices and nomenclature from other places to Mecca at a time in the emergence of Islam considerably later than the death of the Prophet. The qurnic materials are not inconsistent with such theories which, however, really depend on other evidence regarding the development of the sanctuary and the rituals associated with it in early Islam.
Gerald Hawting
Bibliography
Primary
Bukhr, a, ed. Krehl, 384-443, 443-51
Fr. trans. O. Houdas and W. Mar?ais, El-Bokh?ri. Les Traditions islamiques, 4 vols., Paris 1903-14, i, 493-567, 568-78
Ibn Ab Zayd al-Qayrawn, La ris?la ou ?p?tre sur les ?l?ments du dogme et de la loi de l'isl?m selon le rite m?likite, trans. L. Bercher (with Ar. text), Algiers 19482, chap. 28, 140-51
abar, Tafsr
Secondary
Burton, Collection
N. Calder, The say and the jabn.
Some notes on Qurn 37102-3, in jss 31 (1986), 17-26
P. Crone, Meccan trade and the rise of Islam, Princeton, NJ 1987, 168-99
M. Gaudefroy-Demombynes, Le p?lerinage ? la Mecque, Paris 1923
A. Gribetz, Strange bedfellows.
Mutat al-nis and mutat al-ajj. A study based on Sunn and Sh sources of tafsr, adth and fiqh, Berlin 1994
G.E. von Grunebaum, Muhammadan festivals, New York 1951
G.R. Hawting, The origins of the Muslim sanctuary at Mecca, in G.H.A. Juynboll (ed.), Studies on the first century of Islamic society, Carbondale, IN 1982, 23-47
H. Lazarus-Yafeh, The religious dialectics of the adjdj, in id. (ed.), Some religious aspects of Islam, Leiden 1981, 17-37
C. Pansera, Alcuni precisazioni sull'espressione al-ma?ar al-arm, in rso 24 (1949), 74-7
F.E. Peters, The hajj. The Muslim pilgrimage to Mecca and the holy places, Princeton, NJ 1994
J. Rivlin, Gesetz im Koran. Kultus und Ritus, Jerusalem 1934, 21-49
U. Rubin, The great pilgrimage of Muammad.
Some notes on sra ix, in jss 27 (1982), 241-60
id., The Kaba. Aspects of its ritual functions and position in pre-Islamic and early Islamic times, in jsai 8 (1986), 97-131
C. Snouck Hurgronje, Het Mekkaansche Feest, Leiden 1880
part. Fr. trans. Le p?lerinage ? la Mecque, in G.-H. Bousquet and J. Schacht (eds.), Selected works of C. Snouck Hurgronje, Leiden 1957, 171-213
It. trans. Il pellegrinaggio alla Mecca, Turin 1989
J. Wellhausen, Reste arabischen Heidentums, Berlin 18972Citation
Hawting, Gerald. "Pilgrimage ." Encyclopaedia of the Qurn. General Editor Jane Dammen McAuliffe, Georgetown University, Washington DC. Brill, 2006. Brill Online.http//www.brillonline.nl/public/pilgrimage
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Peace all,
I hope you read the following with an open and clear mind, without any bias or pre-conceived notions. My purpose is to present you with the relevant information, facts, and evidences and to convey the message and not to engage in a debate on this thread. This issue has already been comprehensively debated and discussed in the recent past on this forum and I would strongly urge you to go through all the relevant articles and threads, some of which have been referenced by the links provided below.
Several errors?
Ok! then what is your translation for it?I already pointed out the specific errors in my post and you even quoted that part of my post. Read it again
The above translation contains several errors. 2226 tells us about the "location" of the "bayt"/sanctuary/house, not establishing a "shrine".
2227 tells us to call the people with "the hajj", not "the hajj pilgrimage" ! There is only one "hajj" in that verse. It does not say "alhajj alhajj".
The red parts are your mistranslations and the blue parts are the corrections.
Is Kaaba a black shrine??
Why do you call it a Black Shrine??
Are you talking about the stone?
The stone is a dark reddish brown color and its diameter is about 12 inches (30.5 centimeters).
Are their any Idols in it?2226 talks about the sanctuary/house, not a shrine. A "shrine" is a place full of idols where those idols are venerated, and the "shrine" named as Kaaba in Mecca is also veiled with black cloth, hence a "black shrine".
The fertility goddesses of the Arab pagans were often in the shape of imperfect cubes just like the so called Kaaba in Mecca and were often veiled with a black "dress". A stone could be of any color, size, or shape, and if it is venerated, it becomes an idol. Stones like the one in Kaaba in Mecca were commonly associated with such goddesses. Then there is the dilated vulva shaped enclosure housing the stone, precisely aligned with the winter sunrise, symbolising the fertility goddess of the pagans. There are some other idols in the vicinity of the so called Kaaba too, like the "foot print" idol and the floral design around it which is a common pagan symbol. These idols were venerated by performing pagan rituals such as mindlessly spinning seven times around them and kissing them, just like it is done in Mecca.
Please read the following article for further details
http//free-minds.org/articles/history/ayman1.htm
Also please go through the following discussions on this forum in the past
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13210.msg112065#msg112065
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13210.msg112225#msg112225
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13210.msg112042#msg112042
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=11105.0
Following are some of the reasons the so called Kaaba in Mecca could not have been the one appointed to Abraham, and the one at which Prophet Muhammad performed hajj
2226 clearly tells us that the location of the pure house is DO NOT SET UP PARTNERS WITH THE GOD. The so called Kaaba in Mecca cannot be the house talked about in 2226 because it is full of pagan idols as shown above, and per 2226 the house appointed to Abraham is where no partners are set up with The God, i.e. it should not contain any pagan idols. Where in the Qur'aan do you read of all those pagan structures that are to be found in the so called Kaaba at Mecca ? Where in the Qur'aan do you read of all the pagan rituals and pagan customs performed there during the hajj ?
- And the majority of them do not have faith in The God except while they are idolaters.
Also as per 397, there should be signs of Abraham IN it. What signs of Abraham do you see IN it (not outside it) ?
Per 397, the hajj is for the people (meaning all the people of the world, not just muslims), and all the people should be able to enter the house in safety and security. Does the so called Kaaba in Mecca fulfill this condition ? Are all the people, including non-muslims allowed to enter it safely per 397 ?
Another reason is that according to Qur'aanic evidence, Prophet Muhammad was not in the vicinity of Mecca but in the vicinity of the Dead Sea area. Also there is no evidence of Abraham and his sons and Moses and Jesus having ever come to Mecca.
Please read the following articles for details about the location of Prophet Muhammad
http//free-minds.org/articles/history/moh.htm
http//free-minds.org/articles/history/ayman1.htm
Also please go through all the links to an internet debate on google groups relevant to this topic, which I referenced in the following earlier post in this thread
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14268.msg127132#msg127132
Yes that does not make them pure house becuase they are full of idols, so this is what I am saying; what is your point?
Exactly ! Those pagan temples cannot be the pure house because they are full of idols, even though a lot of people perform pilgrimage to them and go there walking and riding. Just like that the so called Kaaba at Mecca cannot be the pure house at which the people are asked to perform the hajj, unless it is cleansed and purified of all the pagan idols, pagan rituals, and pagan customs per 2226, and all the people including non-muslims are allowed to enter it safely and securely per 397.
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Another reason is that according to Qur'aanic evidence, Prophet Muhammad was not in the vicinity of Mecca but in the vicinity of the Dead Sea area. Also there is no evidence of Abraham and his sons and Moses and Jesus having ever come to Mecca.
Brother Tanveer are you serious about that? nope
Can I find any one complete article about that issue please?
Am already....... &
peace
Hamsa
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Peace bro Hamsa,
Can I find any one complete article about that issue please?
Looks like you did not read the articles I referenced right below the part of my post quoted by you. Please do your homework and go through ALL the referenced links ! P
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According to the article I've read
Baca is Jerusalem
City of Jerusalem was the home of Abraham and Mohammed and many other prophets. Then what does the following verse mean
- And you were not on this side of the mountain when We called, but a mercy from your Lord that you may warn a people TO WHOM NO WARNER CAME BEFORE YOU, that they may be mindful.
Why FM tranlsation is different
FM 302 The Romans have won.
Others
Yusuf Ali The Roman Empire has been defeated-
Pickthal The Romans have been defeated
Shakir The Romans are vanquished,peace
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Peace Hamsa,
The point was to show that Prophet Muhammad was not located in Mecca. I disagree with Layth's article that "bakka" is the proper name of a location. It is a common noun as used in al-qur'aan and not a proper name. Looks like you missed my post in which I commented on that
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14268.msg127133#msg127133
2846 is actually proof that Prophet Muhammad was not located in Jerusalem either. He was probably from North Arabian Lakhmid province area in the vicinity of the ruins of the town of Lot. Brother Ayman's article gives this location of the Prophet based on orthographic evidence from the Qur'aan. Please read the first part of the following article I referenced
http//free-minds.org/articles/history/ayman1.htm
Also see the following
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9527.0
As far as 302 is concerned, please read the following discussion
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9510.msg39822#msg39822 (onwards)
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Thanks.......I'll come again after I read them... peace
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Peace all,
I have read about the Kaaba and I think tanveer's claim has some weight. However, a question which I think is not irrelevant, if Masjid is not a physical place, would someone please clarify the following verse
2240 Yusuf Ali (They are) those who have been expelled from their homes in defiance of right,- (for no cause) except that they say, "our Lord is Allah". Did not Allah check one set of people by means of another, there would surely have been pulled down monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques, in which the name of Allah is commemorated in abundant measure. Allah will certainly aid those who aid his (cause);- for verily Allah is full of Strength, Exalted in Might, (able to enforce His Will).
Thanks
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peace rasulhamsa,
2240 Yusuf Ali (They are) those who have been expelled from their homes in defiance of right,- (for no cause) except that they say, "our Lord is Allah". Did not Allah check one set of people by means of another, there would surely have been pulled down monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques, in which the name of Allah is commemorated in abundant measure. Allah will certainly aid those who aid his (cause);- for verily Allah is full of Strength, Exalted in Might, (able to enforce His Will).
thank you for this verse bro
peace
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peace all,
According to the Qur'an, the Kaaba was built by Ibrahim (Abraham) and his son Ismail (Ishmael ). Islamic traditions assert that the Kaaba "reflects" a house in heaven called al-Baytu l-Mamur (Arabic ر and that it was first built by the first man, Adam. Ibrahim and Ismail rebuilt the Kaaba on the old foundations.
Circumbulation of The Kaaba
'Tawaf' or cicumbulation (the ritual encircling of the Kaaba) starts from the Hajar Aswad - the Black Stone. The circumambulator, if possible, may kiss the stone or may direct his hand towards it saying, "In the name of Allah, Allah is great." He must circle the Kaaba seven times with the Kaaba to his left (in anti-clockwise direction).
On examination, it will be found that the entire universe which is in constant circular or elliptical rotation, is in actual fact moving in the pattern as the Tawaf. The electrons of an atom revolve around its nucleus in the same manner as making Tawaf, in an anti-clockwise direction. The ovum, prior to fertilisation actually taking place, surrounded by sperms, turns remarkably in anti-clockwise direction, thereby resembling the Tawaf. Considering the globe as a whole, it could be found that the earth has two movements. It rotates on its own axis in 24 hours causing day and night. The various seasons of the year are due to the earth's simultaneous revolution around the sun in 365 days. It is really astonishing to note that the earth, in both these movements, rotates anti-clockwise. The entire universe from the atom to the galaxies is in constant circular rotation like a circumambulator who encircles the Kaaba in the anti-clockwise direction. All objects in the universe, atoms, moon, stars, electrical current, galaxies, etc. are rotating in the same way. Moreover, the angles encircle the heavenly Baitul Ma'mur in an ever-lasting Tawaf. In the same way, the Kaaba in Makkah is never free from circumbulators. "Know that the world has come to an end when no soul will circlembulate the holy Kaaba."
http//www.jannah.org/articles/kaaba.html
what is this heavenly BAITUL MA'MUR ?
peace
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Peace brother Agentxxx,
Yes, this verse also surprised me because Muslims dont like monasteries, churches, synagogues but Allah says His name is commemorated in those places and also used Masjid along with these places which shows that Masjid is a physical place like them. But lets see what others have to say about it.
Thanks
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Peace Hamsa
Please note there is a Salawatun in the verses along with Masjid.
Would you kindly explain it?
Thanks
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Allatheena okhrijoo min diyarihim bighayri haqqin illa an yaqooloo rabbuna Allahu walawla dafAAu Allahi alnnasa baAAdahum bibaAAdin lahuddimat sawamiAAu wabiyaAAun wasalawatun wamasajidu yuthkaru feeha ismu Allahi katheeran walayansuranna Allahu man yansuruhu inna Allaha laqawiyyun AAazeezun
this is 2240
can anyone please tell me what words here are being translated as "monataries, churches and synagoges?" -
It seems they couldn't avoid the word temples though have tried hard. And how does connection fit here by the way?
Free-Mind
2240. The ones who were driven out of their homes without justice, except that they said Our Lord is God! And if it were not for God defending the people against themselves, then many places of gathering, and markets, and connections, and temples where the name of God is frequently mentioned, would have been destroyed. God will give victory to those who support Him. God is Powerful, Noble.Oh my God, would anyone who has written this translation kindly enlighten us?
Salam
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Peace Hamsa
I checked with Samia once and I guess she said "place of Salat".
Thanks bro
here is another literal translation
Literal Those who were brought/driven out from their homes/countries/places without (a) right/justice except that they say "Our Lord (is) God." And were it not for God's pushing the people some of them with some elevated and secluded monasteries , and temples (for Jews and Christians), and prayers, and mosques/places of worshipping God, God's name is mentioned/remembered in it much, would have been demolished/torn down, and God will give victory/aid (E) (to) who gives Him victory/aid, that truly God (is) strong, glorious/mighty .
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Peace Hamsa
The context does not support "prayers" in between temples and masjids and "place of salat" seem contextually sound.Masjid is from Aramaic msgd meaning place of prayer. Similarly synagogues and churches are places of prayer in different languages.
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Peace Hamsa
The context does not support "prayers" in between temples and masjids and "place of salat" seem contextually sound.Masjid is from Aramaic msgd meaning place of prayer. Similarly synagogues and churches are places of prayer in different languages.
I agree, this verse is clearly mentioning the places. I don't know if the connections is also a some kind of place. Let the person first explain who has written that translation.
May be we could get some amazing ideas.
Salam
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Peace
What does it matter who built it, really...
It was destroyed a few times, and the contemporaries of those times rebuilt it as they believed it was important to keep it.
I think the best way to get to the bottom of what the actual Kaaba as it is in Meccah now, will be to do some archaeological digging and studying. That will be the logical and scientific course of action.
Who built the Kaaba that is in Maccah In 1996, the Saudis, Not Ibraheem, what we have now is not what Ibraheem originally built, this for sure is obvious (unless one has defective logic to assert to the contrary).
Now for the location of it (where Ibraheem built), I tend to concur with Layth that it is in Palestine (more precisely in Jerusalem).
This is also based on the discourses in The Quran where Allah addresses the People of the Book as if they were Mohammed's neighbours and that the Book was presented to them... Indeed they were his neighbours, i.e. near Jerusalem where the biggest concentration of People of the Book were at the time.
What is the use of sending a Messenger which is referred to in the Torah and the Gospel, if that Messenger is not around and over one thousand miles away?
Salam
Noble