love before marriage?
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Salaam Hamsa
Why do you give love other names by quoting verses which are not relevant to it? Adultery, fornication and irrationality?! This looks like the highly contested theory of "blocking the means" that's usually adopted by Islamic nanny states. Example of this blocking of means is prohibiting playing cards because they could be used in gambling, women should not drive cars because it could be a means for them to behave badly, statutes are prohibited because they could be worshipped...etc...etc
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Salaam dear sis,
Refer to my first post. And also I understand the believers men and women are protecting friends to each other. Interaction of men and women in a society is obvious we only need to keep ourselves in the line of Quran and avoid following our desires that is fine. I am not misqouting the verses deliberately but you can correct me if I am wrong and I would accept it inshaAllah.
You can always correct me without asking why I did this and that, because I am not playing deliberately with the verses but only trying to share my views so that you can correct.
Peace, Hamsa
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peace
so falling in love before marrige is following our desires and that is shirk?
but falling in love when married is homehow not following our desires?
so when i eat, am i comitting shirk, because i'm following my desire to eat?
we all follow desides on sone lever, to eat, to socialize, to have sex, to feel loved, except what we need to understand is that we can't let our emotions control us we have to control them, i think that's why we fast, so we control our desires and not let be of those who let their desires control them when they overeat, when all they do is look for sex and who forget God. -
It is a form of Shirk to follow our desires instead of God's laws.
peace
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so falling in love before marrige is following our desires and that is shirk?
Read my first post in this thread please.
but falling in love when married is homehow not following our desires?
3021 And of His signs is that He created for you, of yourselves, spouses, that you might repose in them, and He has set between you love and mercy. Surely in that are signs for a people who consider.
peace
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peace all,
hamsa noone said anything about following desires "instead" of Gods laws - i am talking about emotions - nothing to do with adultery/fornication etc which are against Gods laws..... i agree love before marriage COULD lead to zina - but i think that is more the lust coming into play - because if you truly loved someone you werent yet married to - you would wait and start your marriage off in the right way with Gods blessing and not go against his laws....
I mean isnt it a bit risky to marry someone and HOPE to fall in love with them later, just because you didnt want to fall in love with anyone before you were married for fear of desiring them instead of following gods laws? -
peace all,
hamsa noone said anything about following desires "instead" of Gods laws - i am talking about emotions - nothing to do with adultery/fornication etc which are against Gods laws..... i agree love before marriage COULD lead to zina - but i think that is more the lust coming into play - because if you truly loved someone you werent yet married to - you would wait and start your marriage off in the right way with Gods blessing and not go against his laws....
I mean isnt it a bit risky to marry someone and HOPE to fall in love with them later, just because you didnt want to fall in love with anyone before you were married for fear of desiring them instead of following gods laws?Peace,
I know its difficult for the westerners and those who are impressed by their societies to accept Quran as a code of law. If someone asks love before marriage then the first thing one should understand what are the limitations according to Quran in the interaction of men and women? As I have stated the verses in my first post, what we are required to do in the first place that verses states The behaviour of men and women and the dress code for the women. If someone is following that already then the question of felling in love comes and would be easily understandable. Those men and women who do not accept or apply those basic laws of Quran then they should do whatever they like. Our common sense is a gift of our cultures and we only need to ask Quran its common sense and accept it wholeheartedly which is not easy of course.
peace
Hamsa
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peace
it's not hard to accept laws of the qur'an. especially when it doesn't say anything about staying away from falling in love. it says to stay away from premarital sex and adultery. love is something that happens when you interact with someone and men and women are allowed to interact with each other as long as they have something righteous to say and not looking for sex.
and don't go saying that westerners are these horrible people who don't follow qur'an as if middle-eastern people are some kind of saints. they too rape women and they break other qur'anic laws.
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Peace bro
peace
it's not hard to accept laws of the qur'an. especially when it doesn't say anything about staying away from falling in love. it says to stay away from premarital sex and adultery. love is something that happens when you interact with someone and men and women are allowed to interact with each other as long as they have something righteous to say and not looking for sex.Just read my previous post again and see what I've said.
and don't go saying that westerners are these horrible people who don't follow qur'an as if middle-eastern people are some kind of saints. they too rape women and they break other qur'anic laws.
Unfortunately, the lack of leadership in the Muslim world and propoganda of western media in the muslims world about the crap of women rights has lead the people to follow the footsetps of the west. The westerners want us to follow them and they have tried hard to spread slanders among us by usnig their media. But inshaAllah the west would be destroyed by its own hands.
2419 Surely (as for) those who love that scandal should circulate respecting those who believe, they shall have a grievous chastisement in this world and the hereafter; and Allah knows, while you do not know.
peace
Hamsa
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The westerners want us to follow them and they have tried hard to spread slanders among us by usnig their media. But inshaAllah the west would be destroyed by its own hands.
what "slanders" exactly are they spreading?
I understand what you are saying about following western fashions - i am from the middle east originally and have seen how young people have changed in an attempt to be americanized - the way they dress, their interaction with the opposite sex etc...
but that is irrelevant to my question i feel.... or do you think that meeting someone, falling in love and then marrying is too western? or unislamic? i have not said anything about going against gods laws about modesty and behaviour etc.... -
what "slanders" exactly are they spreading?
I understand what you are saying about following western fashions - i am from the middle east originally and have seen how young people have changed in an attempt to be americanized - the way they dress, their interaction with the opposite sex etc...
but that is irrelevant to my question i feel.... or do you think that meeting someone, falling in love and then marrying is too western? or unislamic? i have not said anything about going against gods laws about modesty and behaviour etc....OK, Let me say again
Love involves interaction of a Man and a woman. The interaction of men and women is obvious in a society thats why we are given some laws by God to follow so that we can easily avoid fornication and other mental health problems.
Those men and women who believe in Quran are required to do the following
6151 ----Do not go near immodesty or lewdness whether openly or in secret.
1733
And come not near unto adultery. Lo! it is an abomination and an evil way.Note Quran dosen't only say "do not go near immodesty or lewdness" and "do not go near adultry" but it also tells us how we can accomplish it, so for that Quran has given some laws to follow so that you can easily avoid immodesty,lewdness and fornication. And those laws are
2430,31
Tell the believing men to lower their gaze and keep covered their private parts, for that is purer for them. God is fully aware of what you do. And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and keep covered their private parts, and that they should not show-off their beauty except what is apparent, and let them cast their shawls over their cleavage. And let them not show-off their beauty except to their husbands, or their fathers, or fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or the sons of their brothers, or the sons of their sisters, or their children that come after them, or those who are still their dependants, or the male servants who are without need, or the child who has not yet understood the composition of women. And let them not strike with their feet in a manner that reveals what they are keeping hidden of their beauty. And repent to God, all of you believers, that you may succeed.Those men and women who do not follow laws given in 2430,31 their love before marriage would definitely lead them to the zina(fornication) which is strictly prohibited and a crime in an Islamic society. If you are following these laws then you can easily understand what love before marriage means if not then love before marriage is not really a question, you should do whatever you like = follow your desires.
In the western socities fornication is not a problem at all and women love to show their body parts. They dont care about God's laws and just follow their desires and thus are meant to destroy by their own hands.
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Peace sis Elke
Peace rasulhamza
could you be more specific, before i jedi
lk
The issue of women rights is against the women and humanity but women are unable to understand it. Those selfish men and women who have raised the issue of women rights have made the women unconciously beleive that they are some other creature and inferior to men and thus need equal rights to men but ironically they call it "women's right". If the want equal rights then where is the issue of "men's right"? If women consider that they are not being treated well they should raise the issue of human's rights because there is no difference between men and women. When they talk about women's rights they already consider themselves some other creature.
Quran gives equal respect to every human being. So there is no such issue of women rights is there in Islam. These are the other religions who consider women sinful creature and thus already consider them as inferior to men.
peace
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peace
Love involves interaction of a Man and a woman. The interaction of men and women is obvious in a society thats why we are given some laws by God to follow so that we can easily avoid fornication and other mental health problems.
Those men and women who believe in Quran are required to do the following
6151 ----Do not go near immodesty or lewdness whether openly or in secret.
1733
And come not near unto adultery. Lo! it is an abomination and an evil way.Note Quran dosen't only say "do not go near immodesty or lewdness" and "do not go near adultry" but it also tells us how we can accomplish it, so for that Quran has given some laws to follow so that you can easily avoid immodesty,lewdness and fornication. And those laws are
2430,31
Tell the believing men to lower their gaze and keep covered their private parts, for that is purer for them. God is fully aware of what you do. And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and keep covered their private parts, and that they should not show-off their beauty except what is apparent, and let them cast their shawls over their cleavage. And let them not show-off their beauty except to their husbands, or their fathers, or fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or the sons of their brothers, or the sons of their sisters, or their children that come after them, or those who are still their dependants, or the male servants who are without need, or the child who has not yet understood the composition of women. And let them not strike with their feet in a manner that reveals what they are keeping hidden of their beauty. And repent to God, all of you believers, that you may succeed.Those men and women who do not follow laws given in 2430,31 their love before marriage would definitely lead them to the zina(fornication) which is strictly prohibited and a crime in an Islamic society. If you are following these laws then you can easily understand what love before marriage means if not then love before marriage is not really a question, you should do whatever you like = follow your desires.
In the western socities fornication is not a problem at all and women love to show their body parts. They dont care about God's laws and just follow their desires and thus are meant to destroy by their own hands.
just because a man and a woman interact with each other doesn't men they're gonna have sex all of a sudden. well, maybe if you're talking about nonbelievers, sure.
but for us believers it's easy to follow 6151 and 2430,31 so you don't have to be so strict about it. we know God is watching.
besides, what does 6151 or 2430,31 have to do with love?
you also said in your first post
"So we should avoid felling in love before marriage and listen to the God's laws."just because 2 people fall in love when they're not married, doesn't mean they're not following God's laws. if they go against 6151 or 2430,31, then they are going against God's laws. but a man and a woman talking to each other, getting to know one another, there is no law in the qur'an against that.
could you also tell me what do you think "do not follow your desires" means?
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Quran gives equal respect to every human being. So there is no such issue of women rights is there in Islam. These are the other religions who consider women sinful creature and thus already consider them as inferior to men
I see you do not distinguish between women in the quraan and in practice, especially in muslim countries.
How about women's right not to be divorced, or forced to accept aother wife for her husband, if she is sterile, does not give birth to males, became old, sick or for no reason at all?
How about women's right to have custody of their children when they get married after a divorce or death of the husband?
How about women's right to have their fair share in inheritance and not to be curtailed of a big portion of it if they do not have brothers?
How about women's right to freely travel without needing consent of a mahram?
How about women's right to have their testimony equal to males testimony?
How about women's right to be compensated for their lives or wounds equally to men?
How about women's right not to be beaten by husbands?
How about women's right to marry from among people of the book?
How about women's right to lead the prayers?
How about women's right to rule a country?
These few-of-many rights are all safeguarded by the qur'aan, not "islam".
I say, muslim women in muslim countries are more eligible for the call of "women rights" than women in the West. Just thank God you're not a woman in a muslim country.
Sorry for going off topic, but this has never been an off topic to me. It IS the topic.
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Peace bro
First, you missed the text in red in my post.
Second, is this your definition of love
but a man and a woman talking to each other, getting to know one another,
peace
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I see you do not distinguish between women in the quraan and in practice, especially in muslim countries.
How about women's right not to be divorced, or forced to accept aother wife for her husband, if she is sterile, does not give birth to males, became old, sick or for no reason at all?
How about women's right to have custody of their children when they get married after a divorce or death of the husband?
How about women's right to have their fair share in inheritance and not to be curtailed of a big portion of it if they do not have brothers?
How about women's right to freely travel without needing consent of a mahram?
How about women's right to have their testimony equal to males testimony?
How about women's right to be compensated for their lives or wounds equally to men?
How about women's right not to be beaten by husbands?
How about women's right to marry from among people of the book?
How about women's right to lead the prayers?
How about women's right to rule a country?
These few-of-many rights are all safeguarded by the qur'aan, not "islam".
I say, muslim women in muslim countries are more eligible for the call of "women rights" than women in the West. Just thank God you're not a woman in a muslim country.
Sorry for going off topic, but this has never been an off topic to me. It IS the topic.
Peace sis Samia,
The problems you have mentioned also disturb me a lot. But this is not relevant I think to whatever I said about women rights in general.
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Salaam Hamsa
I commented, having the following in mindThe issue of women rights is against the women and humanity but women are unable to understand it....If the want equal rights then where is the issue of "men's right"? If women consider that they are not being treated well they should raise the issue of human's rights because there is no difference between men and women. When they talk about women's rights they already consider themselves some other creature.
and wanted to show you that women are treated as inferior to men in muslim countries, and are deprived of their rights granted by God. Their sought-after rights are women rights, specific to them, plus their equal share in human rights.
I am also glad to know that they disturb you, which means that you recognize them. So why are they "crab"?