love before marriage?
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Peace,
;D, you completely misunderstood dear sister,
The link is there. Do you know what else women have achieved so far on the name of women rights instead of what I have mentioned.
with women's rights? Do you mean it is one way, once started with legal demands, will end up like that?
NO, I believe in human rights Quran already has given to all.
Do you ever think that muslim women, who fight for their rights based on the quraan, will one day turn their back to God and his mercy on them and start to demand these things?
Never said never assumed like that ;D
When have women in the West demanded to be lesbians or using drugs ...etc? Men do the same things. Were these part of their rights too? Part of human rights? You really mix anything with anything.
Its all about freedom west has given to men and to women on the name of their equal rights. Drugs are strictly prohibited in Islam both for men and women.
A last question Why, whenever women in muslim countries fight for their rights, we immediately have this discussion about western women being this and being that? What is the relation? Is it another way to shut us up? Or is it a choice to either accept to be inferior the "muslim" way or this so called western way?
Mostly the feminist activists in the Muslim world are supported by the West. These activists themselves do not care about God's laws, they dress up like the western women and talk about women rights in the Muslim world. What we are supposed to think about such women's voice? Are they asking for women's right according to Quran? While they themselves are following the west! The westerners want our women to be the same as their. To end the problem about human rights we need to give people the voice of Quran. This is the only solution. Lukily I am neither effected by west nor east. Quran is the only criterion for us to end all types of depression and opression.
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even if western women have the same problems (which is not true, had, maybe, but not anymore)
I forgot to mention you said not any more! Ok, this is what I read in an article few months ago and net is also good way to search whats happening with women in the west. ;D No one can hide the truth anymore.
<<Violent men don't come from any particular religious or cultural category; one in three women around the world has been beaten, coerced into sex or otherwise abused in her lifetime, according to the hotline survey. This is a global problem that transcends religion, wealth, class, race and culture.
According to a recent National Domestic Violence Hotline survey, 4 million American women experience a serious assault by a partner during an average 12-month period. More than three women are killed by their husbands and boyfriends every day -- that is nearly 5,500 since 9/11.>>
Thats why this is more about the human rights not women rights.
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Mostly the feminist activists in the Muslim world are supported by the West. These activists themselves do not care about God's laws, they dress up like the western women and talk about women rights in the Muslim world. What we are supposed to think about such women's voice? Are they asking for women's right according to Quran? While they themselves are following the west! The westerners want our women to be the same as their. To end the problem about human rights we need to give people the voice of Quran. This is the only solution. Luckily I am neither effected by west nor east. Quran is the only criterion for us to end all types of depression and oppression.
Instead of describing what they wear and who support them, it would be more vital to this discussion to give example of what these muslim women demand as their rights, then we can see if they are quraan-based or not.
I forgot to mention you said not any more! OK, this is what I read in an article few months ago and net is also good way to search whats happening with women in the west. ;D No one can hide the truth anymore.
<<Violent men don't come from any particular religious or cultural category; one in three women around the world has been beaten, coerced into sex or otherwise abused in her lifetime, according to the hotline survey. This is a global problem that transcends religion, wealth, class, race and culture.
According to a recent National Domestic Violence Hotline survey, 4 million American women experience a serious assault by a partner during an average 12-month period. More than three women are killed by their husbands and boyfriends every day -- that is nearly 5,500 since 9/11.>>
Thats why this is more about the human rights not women rights.
Are they told that this is God's rule and it is not up for discussion? No. Is wife beating considered a crime in muslim countries? No. In the west? YES. See the difference? Bad people are everywhere. The difference is if their acts are condoned and considered divinely-given-rights or condemned.
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Peace,
Instead of describing what they wear and who support them, it would be more vital to this discussion to give example of what these muslim women demand as their rights, then we can see if they are quraan-based or not.
You asked a question and I answered you. May be its vital for some people that they see what is being said but mostly poeple first see who is behinde the words. Muslim women raising their voice against the lesbianism and killing children by women in the west would certainly be taken as converting the west into islamism. No one would consider that what is being said is right or wrong. So its important to change a society wisely.
Are they told that this is God's rule and it is not up for discussion? No. Is wife beating considered a crime in muslim countries? No. In the west? YES. See the difference? Bad people are everywhere. The difference is if their acts are condoned and considered divinely-given-rights or condemned.
Yes I agree. These are the problems unfortunately, these things are considered as divine and out of discussion. '(
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Peace sis Elke
The issue of women rights is against the women and humanity but women are unable to understand it. Those selfish men and women who have raised the issue of women rights have made the women unconciously beleive that they are some other creature and inferior to men and thus need equal rights to men but ironically they call it "women's right". If the want equal rights then where is the issue of "men's right"? If women consider that they are not being treated well they should raise the issue of human's rights because there is no difference between men and women. When they talk about women's rights they already consider themselves some other creature.
Quran gives equal respect to every human being. So there is no such issue of women rights is there in Islam. These are the other religions who consider women sinful creature and thus already consider them as inferior to men.
peace
Salaam bro Rasulhamza,
ok, got it, i too insist on human (equal) rights rather that women or men's. But take care when you say things like the above "but women are unable to understand it" - it could easily be misinterpreted !
also
fornication and other mental health problems.
???if fornication was a mental health problem, then even the wife-husband relation is not far from it ;D
lk
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Salam.
Ever heard of platonic love?
People can love each other on so many different levels.
I mean, love is not just rubbing the skin of another person and saying those sweet words to their ears, it's so much more. You feel love and love cannot be described sometimes as you cannot describe the taste of strawberry.I can tell you how strawberry feels like but you will stay cold, you won't feel it. You have to taste the strawberry and then you'll know.
I'm in love with my soulmate and we talk and are in love but that does not mean we are sinners because we avoid haram talk and we fight against our oldest enemy - satan the rejected one, the cursed one.
Love before marriage - what is that? Is it fornication? Is it telling the loved one that you love them? Is it sending 12 roses to the loved one?
Great - now we have to define love.
No, let's not define love, let's just follow The Quran and that's it.We all love people, we love our mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, uncles, aunts, nieces, nephews, cousins, .... but then we distribute this love correctly and naturally - we kiss certain people only on the cheeks, while we kiss certain people all over the body.
We avoid seeing certain people naked, we limit ourselves to seeing naked certain people only.Right?
May The GOD AllPowerful forgives us our sins, may HE AllMerciful guides us on the Straight Path to Heaven.
Peace.
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Where did he get this idea?
I guess he is uncomfortable with the idea of having feelings. Perhaps he feels that if he loves someone and they do not love him back it will hurt but if he doesn't love someone and they get married then he is safe/protected from being hurt?
Or perhaps he never thought of looking at his perspective because he is comfortable blaming God for his choice relating to marriage?
Why not ask him (or just ask yourself) "What makes marriage meaningful?"
peace,
Khalil -
Peace all,
I think I will have my two cents here.
I do respect God and Quran and I'm a believer, but as we all knows I suppose!? Quran wants to enlighten us not drive us backwards.
In the matter of "LOVE" people have always find their way through love and romantic adventures. But there have always been both people who have commit sinful acts and those who have stayed on the safe line, sure that's true.
Now when we are living in the computer world the opportuneties has arised to find someone to love and get married to via msn chat or dating sites aswell and that can be both good and bad but again we are always responsible for our own deeds as we have always been, nothing has changed on that matter.
I can personnally not find anywhere in Quran that God forbid people to get in love, to love someone is very important in a marriage how else then you can have a pleasure life with a spouse?
God says something like a husband and his wife shall be like a garment for eachother! and that sounds very romantic and wonderful to me.
I cannot understand how these so called arranged marriage can take place, I think it's violance the real love that will help couples to stay marriage during a long time or for life.
Many marriage end up in divorce after a year or so and it's a shame, if they had learn to know eachother better before the marriage took place then they could know if they were compatible, right.
So I think to chat and date before marriage is very good and nothing haram to do if you uphold the limits pointed out in Quran of course.
And one big imortant issue that have arisen for me is that people who are so afraid of this love issues they must be very anxious about their own feelings and perhaps also lack enough strenghts to be able to meet someone of the opposite sex before marriage.
And that many so called muslim men have the opinion that a woman who want to meet a man before marriage it's the same as she gives him green light of having sexual intercourse with her (God forbid).
That's how I see it and have viewed it with my own eyes.
If we not change our stubborn minds it will only occur more and more divorces and unhappy children around the world.
Peace
Sis Maria -
I cannot understand how these so called arranged marriage can take place, I think it's violance the real love that will help couples to stay marriage during a long time or for life.
Many marriage end up in divorce after a year or so and it's a shame, if they had learn to know eachother better before the marriage took place then they could know if they were compatible, right.
Peace,
First, let me clarify that no one has said knowing each other before marriage is prohibited! And if someone say that its a must to know each other that is also a clear cut lie and pure ignorance.
Second, it is not surprising that you do not know a simple fact that divorce has nothing to do with love before marriage and knowing each other before. In Europe the divorce rate is "7" divorces per 1000 married couples, in UK its double i.e "14" this is much much higher than the countries where people prefer arranged marriages.
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Peace,
First, let me clarify that no one has said knowing each other before marriage is prohibited! And if someone say that its a must to know each other that is also a clear cut lie and pure ignorance.
Second, it is not surprising that you do not know a simple fact that divorce has nothing to do with love before marriage and knowing each other before. In Europe the divorce rate is "7" divorces per 1000 married couples, in UK its double i.e "14" this is much much higher than the countries where people prefer arranged marriages.
Peace,
Ok, I haven't said you MUST knowing eachother before marriage, but I think it's much better to get to know eachother to avoid too much differences in mood and interests.
I also pretty know that divorce rate is big throughout the world and that have many explanations.
One can be that in west, people take marriages too simple they think it's nothing only a nice ceremony.
And among arabs and other muslims like asians they have start to be more brave and want divorce if the spouse isn't living up to their demands. And they use to be tied up for life before in traditional marriages, often unhappy couples that cheated on eachother but stayed marriage due to keep mom and dad pleased, hmm what a life really!!!!
I'm single myself and I have seen it with my own eyes, and is it really a coincident that so many guys in the thirties are singles?
Many of them have already been married and now looking for their soulmates as they claim hmmm yeah right the world is funny indeed.
Peace
Sis Maria
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Peace sis Maria,
Yeah, in general I agree with you Its better option to know each other. handshake
Salam, Hamsa
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Peace
Sure it is yes
Ma salama
Maria
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Peace Hamsa, all,
In Europe the divorce rate is "7" divorces per 1000 married couples, in UK its double i.e "14" this is much much higher than the countries where people prefer arranged marriages.
The statistic, if ever completed for true comparison, is completely misleading because any country that enforces arranged marriage also enforces tremendous shame for failed marriages. The result, people remain miserably married rather than disgracefully divorced. And the children, of course, inherit all the negativity that's spawned as a result.
It's not to say there aren't exceptions.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace Hamsa, all,
The statistic, if ever completed for true comparison, is completely misleading because any country that enforces arranged marriage also enforces tremendous shame for failed marriages. The result, people remain miserably married rather than disgracefully divorced. And the children, of course, inherit all the negativity that's spawned as a result.
It's not to say there aren't exceptions.
Peace,
TayI totally agree with you )
Please allow me to ask a question.....who amongst us is perfect? Who amongst us can claim he follows all the commandment in Quran ?perfection is only for God, we can only try to be excellent, strive for grade A+........to be honest I may be a grade D or C believer and I have yet to meet a grade A+ believer.
Why is God forgiving? Because he knows we human are capable of committing mistakes.
If we look into Islamic history we find that ?Lady Khatija? was the one who proposed to Mohammed?.could that have been possible without the feelings of love?
I have had a love marriage against all odds and my children have full liberty to marry anyone they want to??.in fact I would want them to know their partners before choosing them for life?..its their life and they have the right to choose a life partner.
In Pakistan 80% plus marriages survive only because of the children and as Tay said because of the tremendous level of shame for failed marriages .
Extra marital affairs are very common in Pakistan??..a vast majority of married men do it and married women are also not far behind. What surprises me is that the same people in private gatherings are the best spokespersons for Islam and advocates for Islamic laws.
We can spot a speck in the western society but we fail to spot the bamboo sticks in our own.
And believe me, all those who criticize the US or Europe for their immoral life style?.will kill each other to board a flight to these countries, if they announce that anyone can come and live there.
peace
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Easy Agentxxx. Im glad we have a guy like you to tell us about the double standards prevalent in some muslim countries....I feel many muslims who criticise the west fail to mention the immorality in their own lands. And you are right,most would jump at the chance to live in the west,with its religious freedom, decent legal system and economic prosperity...
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Easy Agentxxx. Im glad we have a guy like you to tell us about the double standards prevalent in some muslim countries....I feel many muslims who criticise the west fail to mention the immorality in their own lands. And you are right,most would jump at the chance to live in the west,with its religious freedom, decent legal system and economic prosperity...
peace and thanks enquirer )
peace
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Peace,
Yes I do recognise them and I also know that this problem is not there only in Muslim world but in the west as well. But on the name of women rights west has only drived women to achieve the following
Leaving the husbands, freedom to kill their children, be lesbians and freedom of drinking, smoking, having casual sex and drug use. Freedom of showing their body parts in public, choosing the length of their skirts and the size of their surgically enhanced breasts and become a sex symbol.
This is what women have been traped so far on the name of their rights. This is what west wants Muslim world to adopt. We strongly condemn such insult of humanity. We should only raise our voice against the opression in whatever form it is and ask about the human rights in the first place. This is the only way we can make women feel human and and same as men again as God has created her.
Peace all, Hamsa
My western Christian mother and western Christian sister in law have never left their husbands, killed their children, become lesbians, drunk alchohol, taked drugs or smoked. They both dress modestly, have only been with their husbands and never had sex before marriage (or surgically enhanced their breasts). This is rubbish.
In contrast, my Muslim gulf arab inlaws have judged me based on my background, refused to acknowledge my existance due to the colour of my skin and my nationality. My husband has been constantly putting me down and won't accept for me to have an opinion of my own. He just divorced me today - by text message.
In contrast to you, despite my PERSONAL EXPERIENCE I will not say all muslims are bad (I am one) or that all gulf arabs treat women badly. But I will say that when wife abuse/women abuse happens I think there is little backup for the women to get out of it in muslim countries. When I was there for a short time - I was COMPLETELY at my husband's mercy. Thats hardly fair.
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Peace,
The statistic, if ever completed for true comparison, is completely misleading because any country that enforces arranged marriage also enforces tremendous shame for failed marriages. The result, people remain miserably married rather than disgracefully divorced. And the children, of course, inherit all the negativity that's spawned as a result.
It's not to say there aren't exceptions.
Peace,
TayYou are correct. I know this from personal experience because I see it. Women in the East are taught that they are lower than their husbands and often times they are not happy but they are stuck. If they were taught the idea of 'freedom' and 'free-will'. I am sure the statistics will be quiet similar.
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Peace all,
The problem is we need to find the proper definition of the terms "nikaah", "zina" and "faahisha" in this case. I dont think "nikaah" has much to do which is commonly termed as "marriage". It is more like an oath of responsibility before one engages in sexual relationship and "zina" would be engaging in such without taking such an oath. Now i think in a well organized society this oath SHOULD BE LEGAL through paper or more easily E-CONTRACTS over the internet. "faahisha" i think sister "samia" pointed out dies not even necessarily refer exclusively to sexual activities at all. So theres a lot of research needed in this area instead of just throwing accusations based again on sectarian understandings. GOD Bless! -
My western Christian mother and western Christian sister in law have never left their husbands, killed their children, become lesbians, drunk alchohol, taked drugs or smoked. They both dress modestly, have only been with their husbands and never had sex before marriage (or surgically enhanced their breasts). This is rubbish.
In contrast, my Muslim gulf arab inlaws have judged me based on my background, refused to acknowledge my existance due to the colour of my skin and my nationality. My husband has been constantly putting me down and won't accept for me to have an opinion of my own. He just divorced me today - by text message.
In contrast to you, despite my PERSONAL EXPERIENCE I will not say all muslims are bad (I am one) or that all gulf arabs treat women badly. But I will say that when wife abuse/women abuse happens I think there is little backup for the women to get out of it in muslim countries. When I was there for a short time - I was COMPLETELY at my husband's mercy. Thats hardly fair.
Peace,
Yes; I agree with you, that was rubbish! Today I was reading my views on this thread and was laughing on myself. That was me 6 months ago, not any more.peace