love before marriage?
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peace
Love involves interaction of a Man and a woman. The interaction of men and women is obvious in a society thats why we are given some laws by God to follow so that we can easily avoid fornication and other mental health problems.
Those men and women who believe in Quran are required to do the following
6151 ----Do not go near immodesty or lewdness whether openly or in secret.
1733
And come not near unto adultery. Lo! it is an abomination and an evil way.Note Quran dosen't only say "do not go near immodesty or lewdness" and "do not go near adultry" but it also tells us how we can accomplish it, so for that Quran has given some laws to follow so that you can easily avoid immodesty,lewdness and fornication. And those laws are
2430,31
Tell the believing men to lower their gaze and keep covered their private parts, for that is purer for them. God is fully aware of what you do. And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and keep covered their private parts, and that they should not show-off their beauty except what is apparent, and let them cast their shawls over their cleavage. And let them not show-off their beauty except to their husbands, or their fathers, or fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or the sons of their brothers, or the sons of their sisters, or their children that come after them, or those who are still their dependants, or the male servants who are without need, or the child who has not yet understood the composition of women. And let them not strike with their feet in a manner that reveals what they are keeping hidden of their beauty. And repent to God, all of you believers, that you may succeed.Those men and women who do not follow laws given in 2430,31 their love before marriage would definitely lead them to the zina(fornication) which is strictly prohibited and a crime in an Islamic society. If you are following these laws then you can easily understand what love before marriage means if not then love before marriage is not really a question, you should do whatever you like = follow your desires.
In the western socities fornication is not a problem at all and women love to show their body parts. They dont care about God's laws and just follow their desires and thus are meant to destroy by their own hands.
just because a man and a woman interact with each other doesn't men they're gonna have sex all of a sudden. well, maybe if you're talking about nonbelievers, sure.
but for us believers it's easy to follow 6151 and 2430,31 so you don't have to be so strict about it. we know God is watching.
besides, what does 6151 or 2430,31 have to do with love?
you also said in your first post
"So we should avoid felling in love before marriage and listen to the God's laws."just because 2 people fall in love when they're not married, doesn't mean they're not following God's laws. if they go against 6151 or 2430,31, then they are going against God's laws. but a man and a woman talking to each other, getting to know one another, there is no law in the qur'an against that.
could you also tell me what do you think "do not follow your desires" means?
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Quran gives equal respect to every human being. So there is no such issue of women rights is there in Islam. These are the other religions who consider women sinful creature and thus already consider them as inferior to men
I see you do not distinguish between women in the quraan and in practice, especially in muslim countries.
How about women's right not to be divorced, or forced to accept aother wife for her husband, if she is sterile, does not give birth to males, became old, sick or for no reason at all?
How about women's right to have custody of their children when they get married after a divorce or death of the husband?
How about women's right to have their fair share in inheritance and not to be curtailed of a big portion of it if they do not have brothers?
How about women's right to freely travel without needing consent of a mahram?
How about women's right to have their testimony equal to males testimony?
How about women's right to be compensated for their lives or wounds equally to men?
How about women's right not to be beaten by husbands?
How about women's right to marry from among people of the book?
How about women's right to lead the prayers?
How about women's right to rule a country?
These few-of-many rights are all safeguarded by the qur'aan, not "islam".
I say, muslim women in muslim countries are more eligible for the call of "women rights" than women in the West. Just thank God you're not a woman in a muslim country.
Sorry for going off topic, but this has never been an off topic to me. It IS the topic.
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Peace bro
First, you missed the text in red in my post.
Second, is this your definition of love
but a man and a woman talking to each other, getting to know one another,
peace
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I see you do not distinguish between women in the quraan and in practice, especially in muslim countries.
How about women's right not to be divorced, or forced to accept aother wife for her husband, if she is sterile, does not give birth to males, became old, sick or for no reason at all?
How about women's right to have custody of their children when they get married after a divorce or death of the husband?
How about women's right to have their fair share in inheritance and not to be curtailed of a big portion of it if they do not have brothers?
How about women's right to freely travel without needing consent of a mahram?
How about women's right to have their testimony equal to males testimony?
How about women's right to be compensated for their lives or wounds equally to men?
How about women's right not to be beaten by husbands?
How about women's right to marry from among people of the book?
How about women's right to lead the prayers?
How about women's right to rule a country?
These few-of-many rights are all safeguarded by the qur'aan, not "islam".
I say, muslim women in muslim countries are more eligible for the call of "women rights" than women in the West. Just thank God you're not a woman in a muslim country.
Sorry for going off topic, but this has never been an off topic to me. It IS the topic.
Peace sis Samia,
The problems you have mentioned also disturb me a lot. But this is not relevant I think to whatever I said about women rights in general.
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Salaam Hamsa
I commented, having the following in mindThe issue of women rights is against the women and humanity but women are unable to understand it....If the want equal rights then where is the issue of "men's right"? If women consider that they are not being treated well they should raise the issue of human's rights because there is no difference between men and women. When they talk about women's rights they already consider themselves some other creature.
and wanted to show you that women are treated as inferior to men in muslim countries, and are deprived of their rights granted by God. Their sought-after rights are women rights, specific to them, plus their equal share in human rights.
I am also glad to know that they disturb you, which means that you recognize them. So why are they "crab"?
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Peace,
Yes I do recognise them and I also know that this problem is not there only in Muslim world but in the west as well. But on the name of women rights west has only drived women to achieve the following
Leaving the husbands, freedom to kill their children, be lesbians and freedom of drinking, smoking, having casual sex and drug use. Freedom of showing their body parts in public, choosing the length of their skirts and the size of their surgically enhanced breasts and become a sex symbol.
This is what women have been traped so far on the name of their rights. This is what west wants Muslim world to adopt. We strongly condemn such insult of humanity. We should only raise our voice against the opression in whatever form it is and ask about the human rights in the first place. This is the only way we can make women feel human and and same as men again as God has created her.
Peace all, Hamsa
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Salaam Hamsa
Even if western women have the same problems (which is not true, had, maybe, but not anymore), the difference is that we are told that these are God's Law, divine, so no discussion about them...No hope to even consider discussing them...not recognized, that's why I thanked you for recognizing them.
I do not understand how you link
Leaving the husbands, freedom to kill their children, be lesbians and freedom of drinking, smoking, having casual sex and drug use. Freedom of showing their body parts in public, choosing the length of their skirts and the size of their surgically enhanced breasts and become a sex symbol.
with women's rights? Do you mean it is one way, once started with legal demands, will end up like that? Do you ever think that muslim women, who fight for their rights based on the quraan, will one day turn their back to God and his mercy on them and start to demand these things? When have women in the West demanded to be lesbians or using drugs ...etc? Men do the same things. Were these part of their rights too? Part of human rights? You really mix anything with anything. No one fought for those things. They just did it. And this goes for both sexes. In fact, muslim women who do not care about their rights are more likely to do these things than those who fight for their rights, because the former are left helpless and gave up on the fight, and believed that they were really sex objects as our religious institution made them to believe. Even in the West, this category of women are not representative of the majority of women who are struggling to make a life.
A last question Why, whenever women in muslim countries fight for their rights, we immediately have this discussion about western women being this and being that? What is the relation? Is it another way to shut us up? Or is it a choice to either accept to be inferior the "muslim" way or this so called western way?
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Peace,
;D, you completely misunderstood dear sister,
The link is there. Do you know what else women have achieved so far on the name of women rights instead of what I have mentioned.
with women's rights? Do you mean it is one way, once started with legal demands, will end up like that?
NO, I believe in human rights Quran already has given to all.
Do you ever think that muslim women, who fight for their rights based on the quraan, will one day turn their back to God and his mercy on them and start to demand these things?
Never said never assumed like that ;D
When have women in the West demanded to be lesbians or using drugs ...etc? Men do the same things. Were these part of their rights too? Part of human rights? You really mix anything with anything.
Its all about freedom west has given to men and to women on the name of their equal rights. Drugs are strictly prohibited in Islam both for men and women.
A last question Why, whenever women in muslim countries fight for their rights, we immediately have this discussion about western women being this and being that? What is the relation? Is it another way to shut us up? Or is it a choice to either accept to be inferior the "muslim" way or this so called western way?
Mostly the feminist activists in the Muslim world are supported by the West. These activists themselves do not care about God's laws, they dress up like the western women and talk about women rights in the Muslim world. What we are supposed to think about such women's voice? Are they asking for women's right according to Quran? While they themselves are following the west! The westerners want our women to be the same as their. To end the problem about human rights we need to give people the voice of Quran. This is the only solution. Lukily I am neither effected by west nor east. Quran is the only criterion for us to end all types of depression and opression.
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even if western women have the same problems (which is not true, had, maybe, but not anymore)
I forgot to mention you said not any more! Ok, this is what I read in an article few months ago and net is also good way to search whats happening with women in the west. ;D No one can hide the truth anymore.
<<Violent men don't come from any particular religious or cultural category; one in three women around the world has been beaten, coerced into sex or otherwise abused in her lifetime, according to the hotline survey. This is a global problem that transcends religion, wealth, class, race and culture.
According to a recent National Domestic Violence Hotline survey, 4 million American women experience a serious assault by a partner during an average 12-month period. More than three women are killed by their husbands and boyfriends every day -- that is nearly 5,500 since 9/11.>>
Thats why this is more about the human rights not women rights.
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Mostly the feminist activists in the Muslim world are supported by the West. These activists themselves do not care about God's laws, they dress up like the western women and talk about women rights in the Muslim world. What we are supposed to think about such women's voice? Are they asking for women's right according to Quran? While they themselves are following the west! The westerners want our women to be the same as their. To end the problem about human rights we need to give people the voice of Quran. This is the only solution. Luckily I am neither effected by west nor east. Quran is the only criterion for us to end all types of depression and oppression.
Instead of describing what they wear and who support them, it would be more vital to this discussion to give example of what these muslim women demand as their rights, then we can see if they are quraan-based or not.
I forgot to mention you said not any more! OK, this is what I read in an article few months ago and net is also good way to search whats happening with women in the west. ;D No one can hide the truth anymore.
<<Violent men don't come from any particular religious or cultural category; one in three women around the world has been beaten, coerced into sex or otherwise abused in her lifetime, according to the hotline survey. This is a global problem that transcends religion, wealth, class, race and culture.
According to a recent National Domestic Violence Hotline survey, 4 million American women experience a serious assault by a partner during an average 12-month period. More than three women are killed by their husbands and boyfriends every day -- that is nearly 5,500 since 9/11.>>
Thats why this is more about the human rights not women rights.
Are they told that this is God's rule and it is not up for discussion? No. Is wife beating considered a crime in muslim countries? No. In the west? YES. See the difference? Bad people are everywhere. The difference is if their acts are condoned and considered divinely-given-rights or condemned.
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Peace,
Instead of describing what they wear and who support them, it would be more vital to this discussion to give example of what these muslim women demand as their rights, then we can see if they are quraan-based or not.
You asked a question and I answered you. May be its vital for some people that they see what is being said but mostly poeple first see who is behinde the words. Muslim women raising their voice against the lesbianism and killing children by women in the west would certainly be taken as converting the west into islamism. No one would consider that what is being said is right or wrong. So its important to change a society wisely.
Are they told that this is God's rule and it is not up for discussion? No. Is wife beating considered a crime in muslim countries? No. In the west? YES. See the difference? Bad people are everywhere. The difference is if their acts are condoned and considered divinely-given-rights or condemned.
Yes I agree. These are the problems unfortunately, these things are considered as divine and out of discussion. '(
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Peace sis Elke
The issue of women rights is against the women and humanity but women are unable to understand it. Those selfish men and women who have raised the issue of women rights have made the women unconciously beleive that they are some other creature and inferior to men and thus need equal rights to men but ironically they call it "women's right". If the want equal rights then where is the issue of "men's right"? If women consider that they are not being treated well they should raise the issue of human's rights because there is no difference between men and women. When they talk about women's rights they already consider themselves some other creature.
Quran gives equal respect to every human being. So there is no such issue of women rights is there in Islam. These are the other religions who consider women sinful creature and thus already consider them as inferior to men.
peace
Salaam bro Rasulhamza,
ok, got it, i too insist on human (equal) rights rather that women or men's. But take care when you say things like the above "but women are unable to understand it" - it could easily be misinterpreted !
also
fornication and other mental health problems.
???if fornication was a mental health problem, then even the wife-husband relation is not far from it ;D
lk
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Salam.
Ever heard of platonic love?
People can love each other on so many different levels.
I mean, love is not just rubbing the skin of another person and saying those sweet words to their ears, it's so much more. You feel love and love cannot be described sometimes as you cannot describe the taste of strawberry.I can tell you how strawberry feels like but you will stay cold, you won't feel it. You have to taste the strawberry and then you'll know.
I'm in love with my soulmate and we talk and are in love but that does not mean we are sinners because we avoid haram talk and we fight against our oldest enemy - satan the rejected one, the cursed one.
Love before marriage - what is that? Is it fornication? Is it telling the loved one that you love them? Is it sending 12 roses to the loved one?
Great - now we have to define love.
No, let's not define love, let's just follow The Quran and that's it.We all love people, we love our mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, uncles, aunts, nieces, nephews, cousins, .... but then we distribute this love correctly and naturally - we kiss certain people only on the cheeks, while we kiss certain people all over the body.
We avoid seeing certain people naked, we limit ourselves to seeing naked certain people only.Right?
May The GOD AllPowerful forgives us our sins, may HE AllMerciful guides us on the Straight Path to Heaven.
Peace.
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Where did he get this idea?
I guess he is uncomfortable with the idea of having feelings. Perhaps he feels that if he loves someone and they do not love him back it will hurt but if he doesn't love someone and they get married then he is safe/protected from being hurt?
Or perhaps he never thought of looking at his perspective because he is comfortable blaming God for his choice relating to marriage?
Why not ask him (or just ask yourself) "What makes marriage meaningful?"
peace,
Khalil -
Peace all,
I think I will have my two cents here.
I do respect God and Quran and I'm a believer, but as we all knows I suppose!? Quran wants to enlighten us not drive us backwards.
In the matter of "LOVE" people have always find their way through love and romantic adventures. But there have always been both people who have commit sinful acts and those who have stayed on the safe line, sure that's true.
Now when we are living in the computer world the opportuneties has arised to find someone to love and get married to via msn chat or dating sites aswell and that can be both good and bad but again we are always responsible for our own deeds as we have always been, nothing has changed on that matter.
I can personnally not find anywhere in Quran that God forbid people to get in love, to love someone is very important in a marriage how else then you can have a pleasure life with a spouse?
God says something like a husband and his wife shall be like a garment for eachother! and that sounds very romantic and wonderful to me.
I cannot understand how these so called arranged marriage can take place, I think it's violance the real love that will help couples to stay marriage during a long time or for life.
Many marriage end up in divorce after a year or so and it's a shame, if they had learn to know eachother better before the marriage took place then they could know if they were compatible, right.
So I think to chat and date before marriage is very good and nothing haram to do if you uphold the limits pointed out in Quran of course.
And one big imortant issue that have arisen for me is that people who are so afraid of this love issues they must be very anxious about their own feelings and perhaps also lack enough strenghts to be able to meet someone of the opposite sex before marriage.
And that many so called muslim men have the opinion that a woman who want to meet a man before marriage it's the same as she gives him green light of having sexual intercourse with her (God forbid).
That's how I see it and have viewed it with my own eyes.
If we not change our stubborn minds it will only occur more and more divorces and unhappy children around the world.
Peace
Sis Maria -
I cannot understand how these so called arranged marriage can take place, I think it's violance the real love that will help couples to stay marriage during a long time or for life.
Many marriage end up in divorce after a year or so and it's a shame, if they had learn to know eachother better before the marriage took place then they could know if they were compatible, right.
Peace,
First, let me clarify that no one has said knowing each other before marriage is prohibited! And if someone say that its a must to know each other that is also a clear cut lie and pure ignorance.
Second, it is not surprising that you do not know a simple fact that divorce has nothing to do with love before marriage and knowing each other before. In Europe the divorce rate is "7" divorces per 1000 married couples, in UK its double i.e "14" this is much much higher than the countries where people prefer arranged marriages.
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Peace,
First, let me clarify that no one has said knowing each other before marriage is prohibited! And if someone say that its a must to know each other that is also a clear cut lie and pure ignorance.
Second, it is not surprising that you do not know a simple fact that divorce has nothing to do with love before marriage and knowing each other before. In Europe the divorce rate is "7" divorces per 1000 married couples, in UK its double i.e "14" this is much much higher than the countries where people prefer arranged marriages.
Peace,
Ok, I haven't said you MUST knowing eachother before marriage, but I think it's much better to get to know eachother to avoid too much differences in mood and interests.
I also pretty know that divorce rate is big throughout the world and that have many explanations.
One can be that in west, people take marriages too simple they think it's nothing only a nice ceremony.
And among arabs and other muslims like asians they have start to be more brave and want divorce if the spouse isn't living up to their demands. And they use to be tied up for life before in traditional marriages, often unhappy couples that cheated on eachother but stayed marriage due to keep mom and dad pleased, hmm what a life really!!!!
I'm single myself and I have seen it with my own eyes, and is it really a coincident that so many guys in the thirties are singles?
Many of them have already been married and now looking for their soulmates as they claim hmmm yeah right the world is funny indeed.
Peace
Sis Maria
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Peace sis Maria,
Yeah, in general I agree with you Its better option to know each other. handshake
Salam, Hamsa
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Peace
Sure it is yes
Ma salama
Maria