Getting p'd off by traditionalists!
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Basically most Muslim philosophers and scientists like Ibn Sina, Omar Khayyam, and Ibn Rushd in the past were and still are seen as kafir by many traditional Muslims because they had 'different' religious views. The only reason most traditional Muslims today mention their brilliance is either because they are not aware of their 'deviant' religious views or they are just trying to use them as a tool to draw the attention of non-Muslims toward Islam.
Peace,
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Exactly...
And the fact is that it's not just them. Any muslim who has opposing viewpoints is a kafir. Hence Shia's are kafir to sunni's and vice versa. And the same thing applies to Quran Only muslims (Although I'm not sure do you consider sunni's as kafir?).
The way they all go on is as if Allah (SWT) himself is giving them waly!
Most of them don't even know what they're going on about! Even in the hadith that they claim to follow, it says something to the effect that don't call another muslim a kafir. As far as I'm concerned, if someone considers themselves a muslim, that's good enough for me. Let Allah be the judge.
Another question, what are quran-aloners views on other religions? Can they get into heaven?
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From memory it's the wahabi that don't like Ibn Sina, otherwise lots of sunnahs use his texts.
Anyway I think I'm tired of all philosophies. Every has faults that's a reality of life and everyone has their "own" conclusion. The way I see things everyone does their own thing even if they claim to follow something. Headaches and more headaches.
Initially I had mixed thoughts of which sect to follow, then came to the conclusion all hadiths (of sahih in both shia and sunnah literature) are evil, but now I wouldn't say so. I believe the Quran Alone in other words I believe in it's authticity of it's guide. I also believe there is truth in other texts including hadiths. I wouldn't say I take them as sahih but I can definitely say some can influence in a good way and some in a bad way. The Quran says it is the "best" hadith it doesn't mean there isn't any good or useful hadiths other than the Quran. Off course O bet everyone will tell me the only source of law you can take is the law of God, well wouldn't following any government laws be contradictory to that. There is not one country in the whole entire world that follows the proper sharia.
The problem with the Muslim community is that we are good at talking even myself, we talk we brag we look at others yet initiation is little, no one wants to hold hands and the ones that do are so few that the outcome wont be met till the next 100 century.
Soggyguy I can?t stand people calling others kafreen, it?s like who the hell are you to have the authority to say who is on the right and who isn?t. No one knows the hearts of the people so their statements are just stupid. Also people have fears by shunning them out of their society it makes people feel secure, the unknown fears people amongst other things... but you know what everyone likes to point at people call them stupid for what they believe and laugh and humiliate how they practice things, these days I?ll say good luck in finding someone who will discuss in an appropriate manner without ridiculing or mocking some one else or their beliefs.
Ignorance is dangerous yet few understand. There?s only so much one can take but meh I?ll live and die in a state of ?wishing? so I don?t bother any more.
Anyway sorry for yacking on
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Ibn Rushd's books were burnt during his life, but he had already made copies of them and smuggled them to Egypt. Now they are every where, especially his collection of Islamic Jurisprudence by the four imams with his commentary. Maybe his political views are different from traditionalists (I haven't read all his books), but his commentary on his I.J. is not much different from the 4 imams'. hat's why this book is not banned. What's special about Ibn Rushd's religious views?
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Salam.
Those traditionalists are making me rather laugh then angry.
They ask me questions and when i answer that The Quran is all you need and that inside it you can find all that you need, they say that i am a kaffir.Yeah, for real, this convert from Poland called me a kaffir, the devil, crazy and he thinks that i can only get knowledge from the sheiks.
Peace.
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People underestimate the power of prayer. I think there is a reason why salaat five times a day for the rest of your life is a fundamental religious obligation, because it is not just some symbolic ritual, it is a sure means of communion with Allah, and its physical postures cultivate righteousness and humility in human beings. Prayer is the most powerful weapon of man, in their humble requests, we can see how Allah Himself will directly intervene in human affairs to answer a single prayer.
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Yusha, I know too many people who pray five times a day and are hypocrites, liars, jerks, thieves, and just plain evil, to believe what you just said.
I'd say people vastly overestimate the power of superficial rituals.I'd comment on the original post, but methinks my concept of islam is just too different. But I do agree with Ibn Sina about heaven and hell.
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And your Lord says "Call on Me; I will answer your (Prayer) but those who are too arrogant to worship Me will surely find themselves in Hell, in humiliation!" (4060)
Yusha, I know too many people who pray five times a day and are hypocrites, liars, jerks, thieves, and just plain evil, to believe what you just said.
I'd say people vastly overestimate the power of superficial rituals.This is due to the fact that many people these days pray only for the sake of discharging a religious obligation, but unfortunately, they do not pray for their own benefit, be it spiritually, physically, or financially. They have abandoned the spirit of salaat, and do not know its true nature
So woe to those who pray!
(but) who are unmindful of their prayers
(1074-5) -
Yusha, unless there is some magical component in the ritual, it's impossible to become righteous by doing a ritual which involves saying and repeating arabic words which you don't understand (and the meaning is not important, says the mullah, it's the act of saying "god's words" in their true form that earns you "sawab".
- people don't understand what is being said. and what is being said is not important, it is the act of saying it.
- standing, sitting, bowing, and then standing again doesn't make people more righteous.
- people are motivated to pray because they are promised a certain amount of sawab for doing it, not because it will make them better people.
Everyone, at least subconsciously, knows that righteousness has nothing to do with rituals, because we've all seen people who are very righteous but have never prayed in their life.
Plus, salat doesn't mean prayer. And the process of salat isn't supposed to magically turn you into a better person, but it's a practical process through which we can get rid of the negative aspects of our selves and bring out God's traits that are inside us.