Getting p'd off by traditionalists!
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Assalaamualeykum to all the brothers and sisters on the forum...
Just wanted to get something of my chest...
I'm continually getting miffed at the "traditional" muslims... The way they seem to think that if Muslims start to read salaah, all of a sudden all their problems will be fixed. It drives me mad, honestly. It's an insult to the holy messenger and his righteous followers. They didn't just read Salaah and wait for help. They took action and had faith!
Not that reading Salaah and Quraan is bad, Astaghfirullah! What I mean is that... I think you get what I mean )
And the way they attack anyone who doesn't agree with their views, as kafir straightaway! It's shocking to say the least. And then they say Islam fell off the pedestal when people stopped practising it, and perhaps to some extent it is true. But They never stop to think that Islam flourished when people were allowed to think!Philosophically, Scientifically, Culturally Islam was at the very top when people were actually thinking!
However nowadays when someone disagrees with a so-called learned person, than there's no debate, no question. Instantly the person becomes a kafir!
And the fact is that these people don't even have their own views! What happenned to the era when there were loads of Ulema with lots of different views? Not just a bunch of people who memorised hadith and quran parrot style and just repeat the views of their teachers teachers, teacher's teacher's teacher!Just yesterday I was reading about the Muslim man who invented Surgery (Ibn Sina was it?) and just because he viewed heaven and hell as more of a mental thing rather than a physical thing he was labelled a kafir! Can you believe it? According to many sources one of the most god fearing, generous persons who was truly a credit to our ummah, was labelled a kafir, because he said that heaven and hell aren't physical! By a person who came 100's of years later, no less. And has done probably nothing for humanity! There are countless other examples. And I just don't see the point of accusing someone of being a kafir, if he is than Allah is the one who knows it. Not some human being. Also what's up with trying to find fault with the people of past generations? What do we gain by saying so and so who died 1000 years ago did this?
I'll admit, I'm not a Quran only muslim. I still find some value of Hadith... but I keep asking Allah to guide me and Insha-Allah I have full faith that he will!
Jazakallah for taking the time out to read my post!
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Haha? It looks like people like to show they are muslim to the mass. Like trying to say who is kafir or who is not, just because of one thing said. Like the one in the high position knows it all. And the people follow them. So they think, hey dude he is right, then what. They stopped to think?
Looks like Ibn Sina will be more known for his "kafir" mentality then his findings. Sad isn't it.
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Basically most Muslim philosophers and scientists like Ibn Sina, Omar Khayyam, and Ibn Rushd in the past were and still are seen as kafir by many traditional Muslims because they had 'different' religious views. The only reason most traditional Muslims today mention their brilliance is either because they are not aware of their 'deviant' religious views or they are just trying to use them as a tool to draw the attention of non-Muslims toward Islam.
Peace,
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Exactly...
And the fact is that it's not just them. Any muslim who has opposing viewpoints is a kafir. Hence Shia's are kafir to sunni's and vice versa. And the same thing applies to Quran Only muslims (Although I'm not sure do you consider sunni's as kafir?).
The way they all go on is as if Allah (SWT) himself is giving them waly!
Most of them don't even know what they're going on about! Even in the hadith that they claim to follow, it says something to the effect that don't call another muslim a kafir. As far as I'm concerned, if someone considers themselves a muslim, that's good enough for me. Let Allah be the judge.
Another question, what are quran-aloners views on other religions? Can they get into heaven?
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From memory it's the wahabi that don't like Ibn Sina, otherwise lots of sunnahs use his texts.
Anyway I think I'm tired of all philosophies. Every has faults that's a reality of life and everyone has their "own" conclusion. The way I see things everyone does their own thing even if they claim to follow something. Headaches and more headaches.
Initially I had mixed thoughts of which sect to follow, then came to the conclusion all hadiths (of sahih in both shia and sunnah literature) are evil, but now I wouldn't say so. I believe the Quran Alone in other words I believe in it's authticity of it's guide. I also believe there is truth in other texts including hadiths. I wouldn't say I take them as sahih but I can definitely say some can influence in a good way and some in a bad way. The Quran says it is the "best" hadith it doesn't mean there isn't any good or useful hadiths other than the Quran. Off course O bet everyone will tell me the only source of law you can take is the law of God, well wouldn't following any government laws be contradictory to that. There is not one country in the whole entire world that follows the proper sharia.
The problem with the Muslim community is that we are good at talking even myself, we talk we brag we look at others yet initiation is little, no one wants to hold hands and the ones that do are so few that the outcome wont be met till the next 100 century.
Soggyguy I can?t stand people calling others kafreen, it?s like who the hell are you to have the authority to say who is on the right and who isn?t. No one knows the hearts of the people so their statements are just stupid. Also people have fears by shunning them out of their society it makes people feel secure, the unknown fears people amongst other things... but you know what everyone likes to point at people call them stupid for what they believe and laugh and humiliate how they practice things, these days I?ll say good luck in finding someone who will discuss in an appropriate manner without ridiculing or mocking some one else or their beliefs.
Ignorance is dangerous yet few understand. There?s only so much one can take but meh I?ll live and die in a state of ?wishing? so I don?t bother any more.
Anyway sorry for yacking on
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Ibn Rushd's books were burnt during his life, but he had already made copies of them and smuggled them to Egypt. Now they are every where, especially his collection of Islamic Jurisprudence by the four imams with his commentary. Maybe his political views are different from traditionalists (I haven't read all his books), but his commentary on his I.J. is not much different from the 4 imams'. hat's why this book is not banned. What's special about Ibn Rushd's religious views?
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Salam.
Those traditionalists are making me rather laugh then angry.
They ask me questions and when i answer that The Quran is all you need and that inside it you can find all that you need, they say that i am a kaffir.Yeah, for real, this convert from Poland called me a kaffir, the devil, crazy and he thinks that i can only get knowledge from the sheiks.
Peace.
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People underestimate the power of prayer. I think there is a reason why salaat five times a day for the rest of your life is a fundamental religious obligation, because it is not just some symbolic ritual, it is a sure means of communion with Allah, and its physical postures cultivate righteousness and humility in human beings. Prayer is the most powerful weapon of man, in their humble requests, we can see how Allah Himself will directly intervene in human affairs to answer a single prayer.
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Yusha, I know too many people who pray five times a day and are hypocrites, liars, jerks, thieves, and just plain evil, to believe what you just said.
I'd say people vastly overestimate the power of superficial rituals.I'd comment on the original post, but methinks my concept of islam is just too different. But I do agree with Ibn Sina about heaven and hell.
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And your Lord says "Call on Me; I will answer your (Prayer) but those who are too arrogant to worship Me will surely find themselves in Hell, in humiliation!" (4060)
Yusha, I know too many people who pray five times a day and are hypocrites, liars, jerks, thieves, and just plain evil, to believe what you just said.
I'd say people vastly overestimate the power of superficial rituals.This is due to the fact that many people these days pray only for the sake of discharging a religious obligation, but unfortunately, they do not pray for their own benefit, be it spiritually, physically, or financially. They have abandoned the spirit of salaat, and do not know its true nature
So woe to those who pray!
(but) who are unmindful of their prayers
(1074-5) -
Yusha, unless there is some magical component in the ritual, it's impossible to become righteous by doing a ritual which involves saying and repeating arabic words which you don't understand (and the meaning is not important, says the mullah, it's the act of saying "god's words" in their true form that earns you "sawab".
- people don't understand what is being said. and what is being said is not important, it is the act of saying it.
- standing, sitting, bowing, and then standing again doesn't make people more righteous.
- people are motivated to pray because they are promised a certain amount of sawab for doing it, not because it will make them better people.
Everyone, at least subconsciously, knows that righteousness has nothing to do with rituals, because we've all seen people who are very righteous but have never prayed in their life.
Plus, salat doesn't mean prayer. And the process of salat isn't supposed to magically turn you into a better person, but it's a practical process through which we can get rid of the negative aspects of our selves and bring out God's traits that are inside us.