Abandoning prayer...?
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Hello.
My question is regarding a person not praying. If a 'Muslim' gradually gives up prayer, (as well as fasting, hajj, etc.) but still upholds God's laws for humanity, does that make him an "apostate" regardless? Or is he rather demoted from the status of a "believer" to that of a "submitter," not being condemned to punishment necessarily, but not receiving the same rewards as a devout believer?
I'm asking this because I am well aware that in the Sunni/Shia traditions, abandonment of prayer is often regarded as apostasy...some scholars even go as far as stating that a person who deliberately misses one prayer has become an apostate!
Neither of these two views sit well with me, and seem rather harsh. Can anyone shed some light on their understanding of this issue? Thanks!
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"Or is he rather demoted from the status of a "believer" to that of a "submitter," not being condemned to punishment necessarily, but not receiving the same rewards as a devout believer?"
Most probable.
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Salam.
It depends.
Depends what's in your heart.
If you decide you will not pray, then The God will punish you.
If you are forced by another human, well, The God sees all.
If you are prevented by some situation, like coma, amnesia, sleep, then The God is the Best Judge.It all depends.
Peace.
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oh yeah and how will the god punish you hmm?
With a deadly laserbeam from the sky
We'll just see.
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Thank you! I hope this is the case P
It was teachings like this one that made me lose faith in and turn away from Islam temporarily. It saddens me because most progressive-minded Muslims I know personally, most of whom are among the best people in character I know, have turned away from Islam in practice because they have trouble reconciling traditional Sunni/Shia teachings with their own faculties of reason. Therefore, I feel lucky that I have discovered a whole new world of Islam from the Quran alone I hope others can come upon this on their own as well.
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Abandoning of prayer in totality is to forsake Islam and become a disbeliever. Rasoolullah (sallallahu alaihi wa salaam) said Between a man and idolatry and disbelief is the abandonment of salat. (Sahih Muslim Kitabul Iman)
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Abandoning of prayer in totality is to forsake Islam and become a disbeliever. Rasoolullah (sallallahu alaihi wa salaam) said Between a man and idolatry and disbelief is the abandonment of salat. (Sahih Muslim Kitabul Iman)
That hadith indicates that it leads to disbelief. I agree - abandoning "salat" will do precisely that, regardless of the potential meanings of "salat". Interesting...
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Abandoning of prayer in totality is to forsake Islam and become a disbeliever. Rasoolullah (sallallahu alaihi wa salaam) said Between a man and idolatry and disbelief is the abandonment of salat. (Sahih Muslim Kitabul Iman)
Yes and that is where the question of the definition of 'Salat' comes in ...
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Abandoning of prayer in totality is to forsake Islam and become a disbeliever. Rasoolullah (sallallahu alaihi wa salaam) said Between a man and idolatry and disbelief is the abandonment of salat. (Sahih Muslim Kitabul Iman)
Yusha, do you have a Quranic source?
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Peace all,
As per 569, belief in God and the Last Day and doing good deeds is enough, but we ignore the implications of that. Belief in God is not just belief in existence of The God but also belief in His guidance and submission to it
7213 "And when we heard the guidance, we believed in it. So whoever believes in his Lord, then he will not fear a decrease in reward, nor a burdensome punishment."
7214 "And among us are those who submitted, and among us are the compromisers. As for those who have submitted, they have sought what is correct."One of the very important purposes of establishing salaat is remembrance of The God
2014 "I am God, there is no god but Me, so serve Me and establish the connection (wa aqimi as-salaata) for My remembrance."
Establishing salaat is not only for mumineen but is obligatory upon ALL muslims. For proof of that from al-qur'aan, please read the following discussion
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12990.0
Now please ponder on the following sign which warns of severe retribution to those who turn away from the remembrance of The God
7216 And had they walked on the right path, We would have provided them with abundant water.
7217 To test them with it. And whosoever turns away from the remembrance of his Lord, He will enter him a severe retribution.Abandoning salaat would be turning away from the remembrance of The God, especially since it is obligatory upon ALL MUSLIMS/SUBMITTERS/PEACEFUL, and not just the mumineen/believers.
I admit that 7217 does not use the words "whosoever turns away from salaat", but still it sheds light on importance of remembrance of The God in addition to just "belief in existence of The God", and one of the ways for remembrance of The God is establishing salaat. Remembrance of The God is an implication of belief in Him and the Last Day. Hence, in addition to belief in existence of The God and belief in the Last Day and doing good deeds, we are supposed to remember The God also, whether through salaat and/or while standing, sitting, or on our sides at other times
3191 Those who remember God while standing, and sitting, and on their sides, and they ponder in the creation of the heavens and the Earth "Our Lord you did not create this without purpose, be You glorified, spare us the retribution of the Fire!"
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Establishing salaat is not only for mumineen but is obligatory upon ALL muslims. For proof of that from al-qur'aan, please read the following discussion
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12990.0
Then when you have finished the prayer, remember Allah standing and sitting and reclining; but when you are secure (from danger) keep up prayer; surely prayer is a timed ordinance for the believers.
O you who believe! do not go near prayer when you are Intoxicated until you know (well) what you say, nor when you are under an obligation to perform a bath-- unless (you are) travelling on the road-- until you have washed yourselves; and if you are sick, or on a journey, or one of you come from the privy or you have touched the women, and you cannot find water, betake yourselves to pure earth, then wipe your faces and your hands; surely Allah is Pardoning, Forgiving.
Only Allah is your Vali and His Apostle and those who believe, those who keep up prayers and pay the poor-rate while they bow.
Abandoning salaat would be turning away from the remembrance of The God, especially since it is obligatory upon ALL MUSLIMS/SUBMITTERS/PEACEFUL, and not just the mumineen/believers.
I admit that 7217 does not use the words "whosoever turns away from salaat", but still it sheds light on importance of remembrance of The God in addition to just "belief in existence of The God", and one of the ways for remembrance of The God is establishing salaat. Remembrance of The God is an implication of belief in Him and the Last Day. Hence, in addition to belief in existence of The God and belief in the Last Day and doing good deeds, we are supposed to remember The God also, whether through salaat and/or while standing, sitting, or on our sides at other times
3191 Those who remember God while standing, and sitting, and on their sides, and they ponder in the creation of the heavens and the Earth "Our Lord you did not create this without purpose, be You glorified, spare us the retribution of the Fire!"
My original question was regarding those who do not establish regular ritual contact prayers. I agree that turning from remembrance of God means one loses faith, but as you stated yourself, ritual prayer is only one method for remembering God. Therefore, my question was more about people who while they do not establish regular contact prayers, still have some sort of relationship with God - still make duaa, still give to the poor out of reverence for and remembrance of God, call on God in times of distress, as well as regularly thank him for their bounty and successes etc. etc. But if you are of the opinion that attaining salvation from hell-fire is entirely contingent upon one's performance and punctuality in the regular contact prayers, regardless of the person or their background, then I guess none of these would matter.
Best,
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Peace donya,
Establishing salaat is obligatory upon both mumineen and muslimeen. Looks like you did not go through the thread I referenced for proofs from al-qur'aan.
My original question was regarding those who do not establish regular ritual contact prayers. I agree that turning from remembrance of God means one loses faith, but as you stated yourself, ritual prayer is only one method for remembering God.
I never said anything about any RITUAL PRAYER. Salaat does not mean prayer in the context of aqeemus-salaat. It is much more than just prayer for which the word used in al-qur'aan is "dua". It involves reading and studying al-qur'aan at regular times, being humble and submissive to The God, and remembering, glorifying and praising Him. A better translation would be "connection".
A ritual implies a primarily physical process whereas salaat is primarily a mental process with the physical actions secondary to the mental processes. Thus aqeemus-salaat is both mental and physical, with the mental aspect more important.
All muslims (including mumins) are commanded to establish salaat according to al-qur'aan. Once confronted with that command, if one does not establish salaat as defined above (salaat is not a primarily physical process which the word ritual implies), one cannot be classified as a muslim/submitter according to my understanding.
Having said that, I agree that salaat is only one of the ways to remember The God, and remembrance of The God is one of the most important actions which if not performed will result in severe retribution per 7217.
2945 Recite what is inspired to you of the Scripture, and hold the connection, for the connection prohibits evil and vice; but certainly the remembrance of God is the greatest. God knows everything you do.
But if you are of the opinion that attaining salvation from hell-fire is entirely contingent upon one's performance and punctuality in the regular contact prayers, regardless of the person or their background, then I guess none of these would matter.
No I am not of that opinion. Of course The God will take all deeds into account to pronounce His judgment on the Last Day. According to His weighing system, if the overall score will be positive, then I think one will be forgiven for one's sins out of His mercy, and get rewarded for the good deeds. But this does not mean one can abandon aqeemus-salaat safely.
Also I do not consider salaat in the context of aqeemus-salaat to be "regular contact prayers" as I explained above.
Therefore, my question was more about people who while they do not establish regular contact prayers, still have some sort of relationship with God - still make duaa, still give to the poor out of reverence for and remembrance of God, call on God in times of distress, as well as regularly thank him for their bounty and successes etc. etc.
I agree. In my understanding, The God might forgive such people and not punish them for not establishing salaat out of His mercy, as long as they regularly remember Him, believe in Him and the Last Day, and do good deeds.
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peace Tanveer, all,
I really think it is best not to imply something is solid when it is not.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12990.0
The above thread proves very little (if anything at all) in terms of evidence to show the regular/timed salat is for the muslimeen as well as the mumineen.
Let's keep 37 in mind when discussing with others. Of course, if you think it is solid that is entirely up to you. We shall agree to disagree.
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Peace bro Wakas, all,
People can make up their own minds after reading any discussion. After all, there is no compulsion in religion and we will be responsible for our own deeds !
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Salam.
Dear sisters and brothers please, do not abandon prayers, i pray 3 times every day, sometimes more, never less and everything i ask GOD to give me or allow me, comes true, God gives me even more and sometimes REALLY fast like the very next day or within hours.
Trust me, you want to pray. jedi jedi jedi jedi jedi jedi jedi jedi jedi jedi
hail hail hail hail hail hail hail hail hail hailPeace.
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Thank you for your responses! There is much in here to ponder over.
I also have a question about sura 107, in regards to prayer/salat
Have you considered him who calls the judgment a lie (i.e. rejectors/disbelievers)?
That is the one who treats the orphan with harshness,
And does not urge (others) to feed the poor.
So woe to those who keep salat
Who are unmindful/heedless/neglectful of their salat,
Who do (good) to be seen,
And withhold the necessaries of life.I have often seen people interpret lines 107.4-5 as meaning people who delay the times for salat or perform it "heedlessly" (which they interpret as meaning sluggishly or incorrectly, or delaying a 'prayer' until the time for the next has already begun) are committing a manifest sin and are therefore "unbelievers". Have they even read the entire paragraph?!? To me, this is an example of people taking a verse out of context.
When I read this chapter for the first time, what I got out of it, based on my own reading comprehension skills, was that it's saying that people who pray/perform salat but subsequently do not uphold the spirit of salat, i.e. don't feel a moral responsibility for taking care of those in need, etc., are essentially hypocrites and therefore 'rejectors' of faith.
Does anyone have any opinions on this? I have seen this verse used by some Sunni leaders quite often to scare people into performing contact prayers according to their method, which I feel is contradictory to the spirit of the sura.Thanks
