Was the term "daraba" sneakily turned to "beating" by hypocrites?
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Peace siki,
what about the "traditionalist" understanding ? Does it have to make sens in every way too? Does beating make sense ? I'm addressing you, your view of the world, your view of gender relations, not linguistics...
Peace platinum,
yours is a very good post because it really shows the issue as it can also be turned around in one way or the other depending on who's holding the gun...
;D
But i get your pointlk
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Salaam
If someone cannot accept any meaning for "daraba" other than "to beat, strike" as a punishment, I have no problem with that. I would just like to see how they can put up with the fact that "the men" in this verse, unlike "the women", are not described as being righteous or fair, or even believing in God, yet they are given the right to define what constitutes nishouz (which could just be that the wife is a qur'aan aloner ), and execute the punishment with unlimited strikes and directed to any part of her body with any instrument they find in their way or just their bare hands and "shod" feet...the verse does not explain this beating any further.
I would also like to see how they will make this understanding fit the system of God in punishment, which requires verified evidence proving the guilt, details the means and number, if applicable, of the type of punishment, and shows the irrelevance of gender in the application of punishment for the same guilt. Remember that God does not change his method "sunnah".
I really don't care what daraba means. I am certain of what it does not mean punishment by beating.
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Salaam
If someone cannot accept any meaning for "daraba" other than "to beat, strike" as a punishment, I have no problem with that. I would just like to see how they can put up with the fact that "the men" in this verse, unlike "the women", are not described as being righteous or fair, or even believing in God, yet they are given the right to define what constitutes nishouz (which could just be that the wife is a qur'aan aloner ), and execute the punishment with unlimited strikes and directed to any part of her body with any instrument they find in their way or just their bare hands and "shod" feet...the verse does not explain this beating any further.
I would also like to see how they will make this understanding fit the system of God in punishment, which requires verified evidence proving the guilt, details the means and number, if applicable, of the type of punishment, and shows the irrelevance of gender in the application of punishment for the same guilt. Remember that God does not change his method "sunnah".
I really don't care what daraba means. I am certain of what it does not mean punishment by beating.
Wa alaikum assalaam wa rahmatullah,
Assalaatu wa salaam ya RasoolullahAllah Taala has given us a fairly good system of judgment for our circumstances, but they are not fool proof, and they aren't meant to be. It is true, a husband can abuse this injunction and unfortunately his wife will suffer for it. Such a person will be accountable before Allah at the Day of Decision.
But there are other examples of this in the Holy Quran. For example, when it comes to adultery, if a husband has witnessed his wife committing adultery, he must bear witness four times, and the fifth oath is when he invokes the wrath of Allah if he is lying. Now if the wife does not confess to her crime (accuses her husband of lying), than she will testify four times that she is innocent, and the fifth time invoke the curse of Allah if she is lying. So if she does this, despite being an adultress, her worldly punishment will be averted, but Allah Taala, who is the All-Knowing and Judge, He will punish her in the next world. So the justice system cannot be 100% perfect in this world, but it is designed in such a way to be closest to perfection considering our human limitations.
Jazakum Allah.
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Peace all specifically "hajirfm" and "siki",
As you might have noticed i took some time off the forum. As to "siki" and "hajirfm". First "hajirfm" you said that abandoning women for how long and tht GOD shldve provided a timing? Well are you aware of the following verse
Those who commit adultery among your women, you must have four witnesses against them, from among you. If they do bear witness, then you shall keep such women in their homes until they die, or until GOD creates an exit for them.
Now wht does this 2nd part mean according to you? Does GOD magiclly intervene and take her out? Or is it tht GOD wants rational ppl to employ the scientific method, psycholoigically evaluate the woman's state of mind and then decide? I believe from referencing to the rest of the Quran where it asks us to look at the signs in the universe and think tht the latter is the case. Thts exactly the prob with you hadithists. You go to nonensible hadith to find out wht GOD means while we use the SCIENTIFIC METHOD.
As to "siki" NO the word cannot mean "strike". If it did then the verse wouldve been falsified because it would go AGINST KNOWN SCIENTIFIC FACTS. You see theres a difference here. When theres a statment in the Quran which we dont know scientifically whther it is right or wrong as yet, meaning could be both, THEN it wldnt falsify the Quran BUT if we know for sure tht it is wrong and repeated tetsing has shown so THEN IT IS WRONG. In case of physical beating all over the world it has been examined tht it doesnt help the relationship IN THE LEAST. So if thts what the verse meant itd be UTTERLY FALSIFIED. PERIOD! GOD Bless! -
Wa alaikum assalaam wa rahmatullah,
Assalaatu wa salaam ya RasoolullahAllah Taala has given us a fairly good system of judgment for our circumstances, but they are not fool proof, and they aren't meant to be. It is true, a husband can abuse this injunction and unfortunately his wife will suffer for it. Such a person will be accountable before Allah at the Day of Decision.
But there are other examples of this in the Holy Quran. For example, when it comes to adultery, if a husband has witnessed his wife committing adultery, he must bear witness four times, and the fifth oath is when he invokes the wrath of Allah if he is lying. Now if the wife does not confess to her crime (accuses her husband of lying), than she will testify four times that she is innocent, and the fifth time invoke the curse of Allah if she is lying. So if she does this, despite being an adultress, her worldly punishment will be averted, but Allah Taala, who is the All-Knowing and Judge, He will punish her in the next world. So the justice system cannot be 100% perfect in this world, but it is designed in such a way to be closest to perfection considering our human limitations.
Jazakum Allah.
Salaam Yusha
If God's justice system is not 100% perfect, why bother apply His law? Human Law is enough.
You look at justice with a cross-eyed brain
The two cases are not even remotely related
Which is more likely to be called justice A criminal set free for lack of evidence or an innocent being punished in spite of lack of evidence?
God forbids us from giving the wicked any kind of authority...He will not do what He forbids us to do and give a nutter authority over another person.
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Peace "siki",
show me one women who is willing to accept a gender biased commandment, i did come across one, and her name is Boost" Madam ! i am impressed bravo
JK- In defence of BOOST ill have to say that she clarly told me whilst chatting that "we should not obey this commandment(beating women) EVEN IF IT WERE FROM GOD". Thats what she said. Ofcourse shes just setup a pradox because when you know with high probability tht something is coming from the Supreme Intelligence or even an intelligence much higher than you, youd better obey it or you could be utterly destroyed not by the being itself but by processes setup by it. So BOOST needs to do more study and i stick by it, if the verse meant tht it wld be falsified but it doesnt as i n others have shown rpeatedly. GOD Bless!
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OH My Dear Sisters at this forum
I am past that stage in my marriage where i require devinne approval to sortout/beat up my wife, rathter at present, am more worried about the future safety of my three beloved daughters.
What we are doing here is not , what our upbringing/sentiments feel, as right, but what God thinks, is most suitable regarding one of its creations. I am bothered about what HE means by "IDRibuhunna" in this particular ayat , and hence it is very important that we analyse its application with absolute neutrality. I would rather annoy all of you! "My dear sisters" rather than "letting go of a "just opinion", and invite his curse/retribution.
I have evaluated this term in this ayah and deliberated all other meanings as a substitute, but i am afraid , striking/hitting still comes out to be at the top. Sisters i understand, and fully appreciate your feelings. But let me remind you that this one is not the only, of its kind. To name a few, "polygyne, inheritance, sex with MMA" etc . I am quite sure if i make a deliberate effort , i will be able to add a significant number to this list.
I have spent a reasonable amount of time in studying this subject, and i promise you that owing to the sensitivity of this issue, i shall carry out further in depth study , and shall get back to you with my opinion. And if, any biases? Remember , i have "Three pieces of my heart" to marry off. Till then, I am signing off,
God bless all of us
siki
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I have written an article on verse 434 of the Qur'an, a verse which has commonly been misinterpreted to justify violence against women. I have created a website to publish this article www.quranverse434.com