Was the term "daraba" sneakily turned to "beating" by hypocrites?
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Salam,
Since God knows that men are normally stronger than women, there is no reason for Him to tell men to beat their women as to inflict harm on the woman! Nor do I believe that God said beat them (lightly) - what would be the point in that? a woman is not a little kid that you can beat (lightly) on the hand for example and then she would be so-called disciplined!
If you edhreb on food you go on hunger strike. You edhred from work - you go on strike from work! I think similarly this edhreb word is meant to be referring to having a strike (edhrab) from the marriage or have a break!
This may make sense because having a break from the marriage can fix things whereas hitting your woman will not get you anywhere (except jail maybe).
Peace peace
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A question to those who support the meaning of punishment by striking and beating
1- What is the crime that calls for such a punishment?
2-Who decides that this (whatever you come up with) is a crime?
3- What about the wife's point of view?
4-Shouldn't there be someone to listen to both points of view to decide whether this is a crime or not? -
A question to those who support the meaning of punishment by striking and beating
1- What is the crime that calls for such a punishment?
2-Who decides that this (whatever you come up with) is a crime?
3- What about the wife's point of view?
4-Shouldn't there be someone to listen to both points of view to decide whether this is a crime or not?Of course its the responsibility of the court, and husband has no right beat his wife. No one can give any punishment to anyone only the court can do that.
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A question to those who support the meaning of punishment by striking and beating
1- What is the crime that calls for such a punishment?
2-Who decides that this (whatever you come up with) is a crime?
3- What about the wife's point of view?
4-Shouldn't there be someone to listen to both points of view to decide whether this is a crime or not?In addition to that, why is no specific misdemeanour mentioned for a punishment when every other time there has been a punishment, a specific act is described as deserving of it?
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hajirfm,
is that your real name ?
Do they need to "pray five times a day" as they need to "disciplin" their wifes? >D
How is a man disciplined ? According to the rules of moral contained in quran, my ex-husband should have been disciplined by me yes. I even used to abandon him in bed before i abandoned him completely. But may be you're right, had i beaten him up i might have saved our marriage...
Where is your logic brickwall
lk
You wouldn't have liked to live with a man that you have beaten. No woman would. If he was such a loser that needed to be disciplined by his wife, then you are better of divorcing him. I hope no children were involved though.
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What if he finds her "suckling" him to make him a mahram? Does he has the right to discipline her confused ?
Back to your message
"But if this person you dislike -or like- stepped with your wife in bed, you do not have the right to discipline her. Take the matter to the authorities".
Do you accept this additional quote, hajirfm? Does it ring any "qur'aanic" bell?
If the husband has only two options when he finds his wife in bed with another person
1- Do nothing
2- Take the matter to the authorities who will divorce you.How could he be given the right to discipline (aka smite/strike) her for FEAR OF DOING SOMETHING (That's she hasn't done it yet)?
No knowledge of Arabic is needed here...Just simple logic
The 3-step solution is there to protect the family from falling apart. If you find your wife in bed with somebody else then you can testify in court and they will be punished accordingly. The only way she can save herself from punishment is when she swears by god that she is innocent. Then the court will set her free but god will punish her to eternity (if she is a liar). I don't think there is anything confusing here. If you fear that your wife is being dishonest in her relationship with you then you follow the three steps. Most of the time it's just a misunderstanding and it is resolved by talking. Sometimes the wife needs some time to think for herself alone in bed and the case is resolved. Sometimes there is a need for a shock-therapy by beating her lightly and she comes to her senses and returns to her family and the case is resolved. If these steps don't work then they assign referees from both families and make agreements of how to conduct affairs after that. Finally if there is absolutely now way to save the marriage, then they get divorced. Which part of it is so unbelievable that the weak-hearted have to make up another meaning for 'dha-ra-ba'?
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Which part of it is so unbelievable that the weak-hearted have to make up another meaning for 'dha-ra-ba'?
The part that he has no right to beat/punish her when he catches her red handed in adultrey, but he can beat her IF HE FEARS that she might be nashez (what's this BTW?); i.e even before actually being nashez. Does this sound to you any kind of justice, let alone a divine one (to punish someone before they actually commit a crime)?
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Peace "Hajir" and "siki",
Lemme give you a simple example. The Quran uses a the word "sallu" also. So what does it mean according to the majority of Arabas or what does it most popularly mean. "to praise/bless" would be the answer. Although if you consult the dictionaries then youd find the most logical use to be "contact". Same is with "daraba". In science we dont go with popularity. It wld be our downfall. Just consider this example. In the US more than 60% ppl beleive the earth was created in the past 10000 yrs and much more believe in creationism covering both young and old eath creationists. Well science shows tht all of this is false. So there goes your popularity stuff. No my friends GOD wants us to use the scientific approach and the amazing thing is whilst we do tht as many here like "Damon", whom ive has many disagreements with in the past but on this i agree very much, and others have done, we come up with a very rational and sensible meaning as well. Moreover it is an established observed fact tht physical beating of the wife at any time only worsens the matter so if tht were really the meaning of the word then the Quran would be falsified. GOD Bless! -
Peace "hajir",
Hajir the unbiased dictionaries tell a different story. Here "separating" seems to be the most favored meaning of "daraba" unlike popularity amongst Arabic speakers today. YOUVE BEEN FOOLED. DONT YOU GET IT. YOU SUNNIS/SHIAS HAVE BEEN FOOLED BY THE JEWS AND CHRISTIANS. I CAN BET THEY WERE THE ONES WHO INTRODUCED THIS MEANING TO "DARABA" JUST LIKE THEY DID WITH THE WORD "SALLU" AND MANY OTHERS. Instead of understanding the Quran unbiasedly through the natural world you guys use christian and jeiwsh dogma. Man this just makes me mad. Who is the weak minded now, pal? GOD Bless! -
Your logic is amazing.
thanks, i try
i'm seriously crying over the fact that someone who prefers the meaning of strike over the meaning of split questions my logic... hahahaha
convoluted much?
You can't negate god's laws based on your feelings.
you can't blindly accept interpretations based on your feelings either... but you do, ever so attached to the past... cut the cord!
this accusation of negating god's laws is unfounded, since nobody is negating anything... instead people are actively trying to find out what those laws are
disagreeing with your interpretation is alot different than negating it altogether - i would think that would be obvious... oh well P
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Peace "hajir",
Hajir the unbiased dictionaries tell a different story. Here "separating" seems to be the most favored meaning of "daraba" unlike popularity amongst Arabic speakers today. YOUVE BEEN FOOLED. DONT YOU GET IT. YOU SUNNIS/SHIAS HAVE BEEN FOOLED BY THE JEWS AND CHRISTIANS. I CAN BET THEY WERE THE ONES WHO INTRODUCED THIS MEANING TO "DARABA" JUST LIKE THEY DID WITH THE WORD "SALLU" AND MANY OTHERS. Instead of understanding the Quran unbiasedly through the natural world you guys use christian and jeiwsh dogma. Man this just makes me mad. Who is the weak minded now, pal? GOD Bless!Peace Jonny, we are not talking about what 'seems' to make more sense to you or me. We are talking about what god actually meant by the word 'adhraboohunna'. If god wanted to say leave them, then He, being god, knew there was a better word for it 'utrokoohunna' or if he wanted to say 'divorce them' he would say 'telleqoohunna'. Are you saying God couldn't choose the right word to communicate what He had in mind? If there is any conspiracy at work it is the enemies of Islam trying to pollute the arabic language, the language of Quran. But guess what, the same god who has protected his message for 1400 years is not going to let a bunch of losers pollute the language of Quran. They better find another way to mess with us.
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You wouldn't have liked to live with a man that you have beaten. No woman would. If he was such a loser that needed to be disciplined by his wife, then you are better of divorcing him. I hope no children were involved though.
Hajirfm, do you really believe a woman likes to live with a guy that beats her ? Well, ok, may be the few siki refers to...
In that case, if you wish to get married, look for a masochist - in case you wish a good marriage even after having her "disciplined" .Good luck,
lk -
Peace all,
And are we, as wives, meant to suffer at the (possible) tyranny of our husband, living in fear of doing that which he deems 'unacceptable' --if this matter is something that is going to be decided by his disgression? That fear that a woman carries in her heart of physical abuse from her husband (which easily stretches into other matters) smacks of shirk in my life's experience and understanding.
How do you explain that?
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This is an immensely clear issue for those with life experience.....If you want to beat anything go get a punchbag....
To all the women,what if it was linguistically proven that beating was indeed the correct translation,what happens then? Have faith and put up with it,or realise we have intelligence beyond mere books and archaic rules? -
Peace Khizer
In case of sallu, i agree with you , it makes sense in every possible way, so i did not hesitate a second to adopt a better understanding. However one should not blindly accept every theory proposed by someone. We must use common sense, rational thinking, combined with some research using Quran as dictionary, and thoroughly evaluate all aspects before jumping to a new conclusion.
About this particular ayah, i still do not find a better alternate meaning which can be confirmed from Quran , so i am sticking with the traditional meanings ,weather i personally like it or not . There is plenty in Quran which goes against the popular sentiments of today , but we must remember that "Practiced Norms of a certain society at a given point in time do not set the parameters" , it is God who does , so we must evaluate these matters keeping our hearts aside.
Brother point me a single women who is willing to accept this commandment ,or the matter regarding sex with MMA, or the recommendation of half share in inheritance? Because these rules are Gender biased , but the creator knows his creation the best, and hence recommends the best.
We must be honest and unbiased in analysing Quran, and should evaluate every argument/word on merit rather than looking for meanings, which our hearts want to find in the Message.
Finally , brother show me from Quran where Dharbba is used in the meaning of separate or leave, and you will find me more than willing to accept it.
cheers handshake
siki
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Peace siki,
Finally , brother show me from Quran where Dharbba is used in the meaning of separate or leave, and you will find me more than willing to accept it.
Separate/leave/travel/get out 3156; 4101; 3844; 7320; 2273
To beat them makes no sense and contradicts the rest of Qur?an.
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This is an immensely clear issue for those with life experience.....If you want to beat anything go get a punchbag....
To all the women,what if it was linguistically proven that beating was indeed the correct translation,what happens then? Have faith and put up with it,or realise we have intelligence beyond mere books and archaic rules?It is not just a problem of linguistics of this word, it is the understanding of the whole verse. The example of the two kind of women (the believing and the nashez) is he example of people who were priviliged and spend from their money, because this is what the verse is about, not the passive ones who are doing nothing and were just being catered for. Otherwise, why would someone who does not have the means to sustain themselves become arrogant (this is BTW the meaning of nashez)?