Serving Allah
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Peace,
My opinion about why we shall serving Allah is the real truth as I have realized is that Allah don't need anything, not from us or from anyone else. So if we serve him it's the same as we serve ourself because his advice in Quran is for our own good if people only will realize that.
But some people will never learn and always take advices wrong and think of them as limitations (
And limitations don't have to be bad. The life will be as fun as you make it to be. And I personally disagree that Allah will prevent us from enjoy life and have fun but there are always restrictions if you want to be a good person with high moral etc....
So Angel why your question sounds so negative?
Peace
Maria
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I don't intend to sound negative, although it probably looks that way.
peace Angel,
Can you give us your own for & against for your own question.
Thanks.
Argument for Allah serving us
Since Allah is all-wise, all-knowing, all-powerful, and humans are (somewhat) pretty much the opposite it would make sense if she served us instead of we serving her.
She has no needs, we have so many.
She is strong, powerful and unlimited, we are weak, powerless and limited.
Since she is "all-knowing" she should know what we are like without having to test us, so she should serve us instead.
Argument against Allah serving us
If we had it all rosy then we would never know what it feels like to feel 'bad', and we can't appreciate the good until we experience the bad.
Negative life experiences can often make people more compassionate and empathetic, coz if someone has been mean to you then you would be less likely to be mean to other people coz you know what it feels like to be treated badly.
If we had less problems then there would be hardly any jobs. Without diseases the NHS will collaps tomorrow, without crime all cops, lawyers, solicitors, barristers, detectives, etc would lose their jobs.
If we knew all knowledge at birth a teachers career would be over (same applies to all other jobs in the education sector).
If all people were mentally healthy then a psychiatrists career would be over.
However I'm still for Allah serving us, instead of we serving her. Coz if there were less jobs that means that people can work less hours with same pay. As for the argument that we can't appreciate what's good unless we experience what is bad, well Allah should make us all naturally appreciative, coz whenever we get something we want the novelty wears off and we only appreciate nice things for a short while and after that we 'psychologically adjust' to the pleasent things in our life and then take them for granted, and if we lose them we are in despair all over again.
peace
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Angel,some good points in your post...
Couldnt an all-powerful god be like a 'wise teacher' in our life,instead of him testing us through tremendous adversity he could just teach us through moderate adversity,i mean i dont intend to test my children with tremendous hardship so they can appreciate the good things in life,i try to teach them cause and effect and show them examples and theory of how they can be happy and live productively in our society.....I dont need or want my children to serve or worship me......Seems like im more merciful and caring than the god of religion.......Shouldnt god be like an all-powerful merciful parent? -
I think you are mixing a few things in with your original question, such as presence of evil and THE test, altohugh one can relate them.
What if one said God can be considered to be serving (although serving may not be the best word but suitable enough for this point) us e.g. oxygen, brain, food, earth to walk on etc etc and furthermore, in return we should serve God, acknowledge, be appreciative etc ?
A teacher's function is to provide all that is necessary for their students to succeed at whatever goal has been set. One could argue God has provided this.
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What if one said God can be considered to be serving (although serving may not be the best word but suitable enough for this point) us e.g. oxygen, brain, food, earth to walk on etc etc and furthermore, in return we should serve God, acknowledge, be appreciative etc ?
Hello Wakas,
Actually one is and must always "serve" nature for what it provides such as oxygen, brain, food, earth to walk, etc. without which neither you, I nor any creature can survive. We also acknowledge and appreciate this very nature on the basis of the very "figment of our imagination" whom we revere without knowing anything about Him/Her/It, don't you think? Who knows, but nature as a whole (ONE) is nothing but "god" and hence its reverance and exaltation. What say you?
Peace!
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Hello "Genteel",
whom we revere without knowing anything about Him/Her/It, don't you think?
If one doesn't believe what The Quran says about Him/Her/It then yes we know nothing about Him/Her/It. However, one does not have to know directly, it can also be indirect. Many items we buy and use we have no knowledge of who exactly made it and how but we cn still ascertain info about its creator through experiencing such an item or pondering over it.
Who knows, but nature as a whole (ONE) is nothing but "god" and hence its reverance and exaltation. What say you?
You could look at it like that, however as long as one appreciates that nature does not equal God, rather, nature is one aspect we come into contact with.
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Hello Wakas,
Actually one is and must always "serve" nature for what it provides such as oxygen, brain, food, earth to walk, etc. without which neither you, I nor any creature can survive. We also acknowledge and appreciate this very nature on the basis of the very "figment of our imagination" whom we revere without knowing anything about Him/Her/It, don't you think? Who knows, but nature as a whole (ONE) is nothing but "god" and hence its reverance and exaltation. What say you?
Peace!
So, how do we serve nature?
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Peace all.
God provides.
We serve.
Simple?
And Samia, we serve nature by not destroying it.
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Hello "Genteel",
If one doesn't believe what The Quran says about Him/Her/It then yes we know nothing about Him/Her/It. However, one does not have to know directly, it can also be indirect. Many items we buy and use we have no knowledge of who exactly made it and how but we cn still ascertain info about its creator through experiencing such an item or pondering over it.
You could look at it like that, however as long as one appreciates that nature does not equal God, rather, nature is one aspect we come into contact with.
You see, Wakas, unless we know exactly who or what God is, we cannot make any distinction. In my understanding, nature is reality, meaning the universe and all its components and phenomenon (sum total of everything that happens and exists including us humans...One Whole). Come to think of it, nature simply IS just like God IS for it carries the same attributes and conveys the same message, wouldn't you think? Just some thoughts which can be further discussed. )
Peace!
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"Genteel",
I agree to some extent that nature can convey the same message, e.g. 4153.Angel,
By citing 6151 with your point, are you implying that there is not enough food for everyone in the world? Is it man who hoards and is greedy and does not distribute or is it God? Is it God who forces many to have children out of wedlock thus creating situations in which it is more difficult to provide for them? -
Peace Wakes,
By citing 6151 with your point, are you implying that there is not enough food for everyone in the world?
no that was not my point...
Is it man who hoards and is greedy and does not distribute or is it God?
both really.
There is soooooo much food in the Amazon rain forest but (virtually) none in a desert, so we have a problem there. And people live in all climates.
locusts are to blame too (why on earth did Allah even create them confused.
Is it God who forces many to have children out of wedlock thus creating situations in which it is more difficult to provide for them?
whether someone chooses to have a child out of wedlock is irrelevant.
The verse says "....kill not your children because of poverty, We provide sustenance for you and for them".
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Why didn't you say that before, instead of saying "tough s***, that's the way it is"
And why ain't Allah providing for millions of starving children around the world like he said he would (6151).
A) I said the same thing, but I rephrased it the second time.
B) Humans suck.
Why aren't YOU providing for millions of these children? You're providing the rationale for these millions to starve when you say "we must not serve God", because a certain few capitalist assholes do not fear retribution, the consequences of their actions, and starve these kids in the first place.
Now, part of our job to serve, is TO HELP THESE KIDS.
Now, let's rephrase the verse to show the logic in it.
Do not murder your children, because if God wills, he will provide sustenance. God chooses to take them away as he wills.
If you kill them, God has taken them away You = You + the sin of murder
If you let them live, and do good for them, and God still takes them away You = You + Good deeds
Capiche?
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peace,
There is soooooo much food in the Amazon rain forest but (virtually) none in a desert, so we have a problem there.
There is only a problem if one is 100% sure there is no reason for a desert. Are you 100% sure? I have not studied this topic but you will probably find it would be impossible/illogical for nature not to have rainforests as well as deserts, hot areas, cold areas etc. For example I do know techtonic plate movements that create earthquakes are essential for life on earth, so if someone said there is a problem with earthquakes, this would be short sighted, as to eliminate them would mean no life on earth.
Similarly with locusts. They are only a problem if you are 100% sure there is no reason for them. Are you 100% sure?
whether someone chooses to have a child out of wedlock is irrelevant.
The verse says "....kill not your children because of poverty, We provide sustenance for you and for them".
To you it may be irrelevant but when The Quran talks about having sex/children it is ALWAYS within marriage. Having children outwith marriage increases the chances of not being able to provide for them. You can disagree with this if you wish. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Lastly, do not look at things from a "this world is all there is" perspective or "it seems like a problem that means it is a problem" perspective. Think of all the possibilities and repurcussions of the scenarios you are suggesting.
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There is only a problem if one is 100% sure there is no reason for a desert. Are you 100% sure? I have not studied this topic but you will probably find it would be impossible/illogical for nature not to have rainforests as well as deserts, hot areas, cold areas etc. For example I do know techtonic plate movements that create earthquakes are essential for life on earth, so if someone said there is a problem with earthquakes, this would be short sighted, as to eliminate them would mean no life on earth.
but Allah in her infinite wisdom should not have designed it like that, it can be so bloody inconvenient.
Similarly with locusts. They are only a problem if you are 100% sure there is no reason for them. Are you 100% sure?
the only thing I know about them is that they are a pain in the ass.
Why aren't YOU providing for millions of these children?
i do give money to charity, most people (i know) do, but the problem is still there.
but I can't provide for MILLIONS of children around the world, if i was a billionair I would yes.
You're providing the rationale for these millions to starve when you say "we must not serve God",
coz she should be serving us.
because a certain few capitalist assholes do not fear retribution, the consequences of their actions, and starve these kids in the first place.
c'mon its a hardly "a few".
Now, part of our job to serve, is TO HELP THESE KIDS.
we do and it makes little difference
Do not murder your children, because if God wills, he will provide sustenance. God chooses to take them away as he wills.
the verse does not say that.
Lastly, do not look at things from a "this world is all there is" perspective or "it seems like a problem that means it is a problem" perspective. Think of all the possibilities and repurcussions of the scenarios you are suggesting.
i'll try
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but Allah in her infinite wisdom should not have designed it like that, it can be so bloody inconvenient.
the only thing I know about them is that they are a pain in the ass.
i do give money to charity, most people (i know) do, but the problem is still there.
but I can't provide for MILLIONS of children around the world, if i was a billionair I would yes.
coz she should be serving us.
c'mon its a hardly "a few".
we do and it makes little difference
the verse does not say that.
i'll try
A) Tough. Get more knowledge on this matter.
B) Tough. See A)
C) You think your pittance of money is doing anything? Think again. It's getting cycled right back into the fat wallets of a few. Love usury.
D) Faulty logic.
E) No, it is a few. See A). You are powerless in this, as am I. The most you could do is complain some. This gets you nowhere.
F) No. Humans are not serving God. The majority is powerless in this, which is the reason why "it makes little difference".
G) Read the Quran a bit more, perhaps. You will see that the whole book says that.
H) Yay!
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A lot of these "poor countries" siphon aid wealth into arms, their own banks, etc...
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Oh, I thought you meant general aid...
