Serving Allah
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Hello "Genteel",
If one doesn't believe what The Quran says about Him/Her/It then yes we know nothing about Him/Her/It. However, one does not have to know directly, it can also be indirect. Many items we buy and use we have no knowledge of who exactly made it and how but we cn still ascertain info about its creator through experiencing such an item or pondering over it.
You could look at it like that, however as long as one appreciates that nature does not equal God, rather, nature is one aspect we come into contact with.
You see, Wakas, unless we know exactly who or what God is, we cannot make any distinction. In my understanding, nature is reality, meaning the universe and all its components and phenomenon (sum total of everything that happens and exists including us humans...One Whole). Come to think of it, nature simply IS just like God IS for it carries the same attributes and conveys the same message, wouldn't you think? Just some thoughts which can be further discussed. )
Peace!
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"Genteel",
I agree to some extent that nature can convey the same message, e.g. 4153.Angel,
By citing 6151 with your point, are you implying that there is not enough food for everyone in the world? Is it man who hoards and is greedy and does not distribute or is it God? Is it God who forces many to have children out of wedlock thus creating situations in which it is more difficult to provide for them? -
Peace Wakes,
By citing 6151 with your point, are you implying that there is not enough food for everyone in the world?
no that was not my point...
Is it man who hoards and is greedy and does not distribute or is it God?
both really.
There is soooooo much food in the Amazon rain forest but (virtually) none in a desert, so we have a problem there. And people live in all climates.
locusts are to blame too (why on earth did Allah even create them confused.
Is it God who forces many to have children out of wedlock thus creating situations in which it is more difficult to provide for them?
whether someone chooses to have a child out of wedlock is irrelevant.
The verse says "....kill not your children because of poverty, We provide sustenance for you and for them".
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Why didn't you say that before, instead of saying "tough s***, that's the way it is"
And why ain't Allah providing for millions of starving children around the world like he said he would (6151).
A) I said the same thing, but I rephrased it the second time.
B) Humans suck.
Why aren't YOU providing for millions of these children? You're providing the rationale for these millions to starve when you say "we must not serve God", because a certain few capitalist assholes do not fear retribution, the consequences of their actions, and starve these kids in the first place.
Now, part of our job to serve, is TO HELP THESE KIDS.
Now, let's rephrase the verse to show the logic in it.
Do not murder your children, because if God wills, he will provide sustenance. God chooses to take them away as he wills.
If you kill them, God has taken them away You = You + the sin of murder
If you let them live, and do good for them, and God still takes them away You = You + Good deeds
Capiche?
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peace,
There is soooooo much food in the Amazon rain forest but (virtually) none in a desert, so we have a problem there.
There is only a problem if one is 100% sure there is no reason for a desert. Are you 100% sure? I have not studied this topic but you will probably find it would be impossible/illogical for nature not to have rainforests as well as deserts, hot areas, cold areas etc. For example I do know techtonic plate movements that create earthquakes are essential for life on earth, so if someone said there is a problem with earthquakes, this would be short sighted, as to eliminate them would mean no life on earth.
Similarly with locusts. They are only a problem if you are 100% sure there is no reason for them. Are you 100% sure?
whether someone chooses to have a child out of wedlock is irrelevant.
The verse says "....kill not your children because of poverty, We provide sustenance for you and for them".
To you it may be irrelevant but when The Quran talks about having sex/children it is ALWAYS within marriage. Having children outwith marriage increases the chances of not being able to provide for them. You can disagree with this if you wish. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Lastly, do not look at things from a "this world is all there is" perspective or "it seems like a problem that means it is a problem" perspective. Think of all the possibilities and repurcussions of the scenarios you are suggesting.
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There is only a problem if one is 100% sure there is no reason for a desert. Are you 100% sure? I have not studied this topic but you will probably find it would be impossible/illogical for nature not to have rainforests as well as deserts, hot areas, cold areas etc. For example I do know techtonic plate movements that create earthquakes are essential for life on earth, so if someone said there is a problem with earthquakes, this would be short sighted, as to eliminate them would mean no life on earth.
but Allah in her infinite wisdom should not have designed it like that, it can be so bloody inconvenient.
Similarly with locusts. They are only a problem if you are 100% sure there is no reason for them. Are you 100% sure?
the only thing I know about them is that they are a pain in the ass.
Why aren't YOU providing for millions of these children?
i do give money to charity, most people (i know) do, but the problem is still there.
but I can't provide for MILLIONS of children around the world, if i was a billionair I would yes.
You're providing the rationale for these millions to starve when you say "we must not serve God",
coz she should be serving us.
because a certain few capitalist assholes do not fear retribution, the consequences of their actions, and starve these kids in the first place.
c'mon its a hardly "a few".
Now, part of our job to serve, is TO HELP THESE KIDS.
we do and it makes little difference
Do not murder your children, because if God wills, he will provide sustenance. God chooses to take them away as he wills.
the verse does not say that.
Lastly, do not look at things from a "this world is all there is" perspective or "it seems like a problem that means it is a problem" perspective. Think of all the possibilities and repurcussions of the scenarios you are suggesting.
i'll try
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but Allah in her infinite wisdom should not have designed it like that, it can be so bloody inconvenient.
the only thing I know about them is that they are a pain in the ass.
i do give money to charity, most people (i know) do, but the problem is still there.
but I can't provide for MILLIONS of children around the world, if i was a billionair I would yes.
coz she should be serving us.
c'mon its a hardly "a few".
we do and it makes little difference
the verse does not say that.
i'll try
A) Tough. Get more knowledge on this matter.
B) Tough. See A)
C) You think your pittance of money is doing anything? Think again. It's getting cycled right back into the fat wallets of a few. Love usury.
D) Faulty logic.
E) No, it is a few. See A). You are powerless in this, as am I. The most you could do is complain some. This gets you nowhere.
F) No. Humans are not serving God. The majority is powerless in this, which is the reason why "it makes little difference".
G) Read the Quran a bit more, perhaps. You will see that the whole book says that.
H) Yay!
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A lot of these "poor countries" siphon aid wealth into arms, their own banks, etc...
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Oh, I thought you meant general aid...
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Easy genteel. The hypotheses that nature is god is probably one of the few definitions of god that makes sense and can be empirically shown.....And,of course,nature includes us humans and all that exists,known and unknown.....
However,i still cannot see how nature is really a single unified harmonious force,more like a multitude of finite forces partly conflicting,partly harmonious and in constant flux, which could 'metaphorically' be grouped as one and called god/nature...... Would be interesting to discuss this topic in more detail...... -
Easy genteel. The hypotheses that nature is god is probably one of the few definitions of god that makes sense and can be empirically shown.....And,of course,nature includes us humans and all that exists,known and unknown.....
However,i still cannot see how nature is really a single unified harmonious force,more like a multitude of finite forces partly conflicting,partly harmonious and in constant flux, which could 'metaphorically' be grouped as one and called god/nature...... Would be interesting to discuss this topic in more detail......The problem with any concept of God, even the non-existance of God, is that it is unprovable - it is "unseen".
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i still cannot see how nature is really a single unified harmonious force,more like a multitude of finite forces partly conflicting,partly harmonious and in constant flux, which could 'metaphorically' be grouped as one and called god/nature......
We live in one gigantic energy field.
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Thats not true OPF,if god is defined as nature a lot of this 'god' can be seen......
You cannot just take the standard 'religious' definiton of god as 'unseen' and then apply this across the board to subsequent re-definitions or advances in theology....
What came first ,the human definition or the actual reality?
ps; agree angel,but we are energy also,and its a multitude of energy fields.... -
Thats not true OPF,if god is defined as nature a lot of this 'god' can be seen......
You cannot just take the standard 'religious' definiton of god as 'unseen' and then apply this across the board to subsequent re-definitions or advances in theology....
What came first ,the human definition or the actual reality?
ps; agree angel,but we are energy also,and its a multitude of energy fields....Nature doesn't "think", nature is.
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How do you know 'god' thinks? Why would he need to think if he knows everything already? Maybe 'god' just is?
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How do you know 'god' thinks? Why would he need to think if he knows everything already? Maybe 'god' just is?
Indeed.
Do you see yet, why we can't formulate a concept of God?
