Serving Allah
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Thats not true OPF,if god is defined as nature a lot of this 'god' can be seen......
You cannot just take the standard 'religious' definiton of god as 'unseen' and then apply this across the board to subsequent re-definitions or advances in theology....
What came first ,the human definition or the actual reality?
ps; agree angel,but we are energy also,and its a multitude of energy fields.... -
Thats not true OPF,if god is defined as nature a lot of this 'god' can be seen......
You cannot just take the standard 'religious' definiton of god as 'unseen' and then apply this across the board to subsequent re-definitions or advances in theology....
What came first ,the human definition or the actual reality?
ps; agree angel,but we are energy also,and its a multitude of energy fields....Nature doesn't "think", nature is.
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How do you know 'god' thinks? Why would he need to think if he knows everything already? Maybe 'god' just is?
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How do you know 'god' thinks? Why would he need to think if he knows everything already? Maybe 'god' just is?
Indeed.
Do you see yet, why we can't formulate a concept of God?
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Yes,because it is a self defeating supernatural human definition.....Much like a school childs imaginary friend which exists to them,but cannot be proved or disproved totally,but in reality only exists in their own imagination......
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Peace Enquirer,
However,i still cannot see how nature is really a single unified harmonious force,more like a multitude of finite forces partly conflicting,partly harmonious and in constant flux, which could 'metaphorically' be grouped as one and called god/nature...... Would be interesting to discuss this topic in more detail......
I remember watching a show on TV, about a certain forest that was DNA tested by sampling every tree. What they found, was that contrary to what the trees appeared to be on the surface, the whole forest was a single tree.
Perhaps, these forces are not what they appear to be on the surface. Perhaps, they too are one.
Suggested keywords for further research Lignotuber, Mallee.
Nadeem
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Ok Nadeem,but why are we trying to 'force' this 'everything is one' scenario? Just because the quran mentions one 'god' doesnt mean we look to compartmentalise every 'reality' into a unity or one thing.....Surely we should take 'reality' as it is rather than with preconceived notions.....I mean when buddhists say there is no such thing as 'i' or ego,that is disproved by the presence of many different people who all have different thoughts,feelings and identities....If by analogy 'all the trees were one tree' was turned into all humans are one human,then why soo much conflict among this one human?
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Easy genteel. The hypotheses that nature is god is probably one of the few definitions of god that makes sense and can be empirically shown.....And,of course,nature includes us humans and all that exists,known and unknown.....
However,i still cannot see how nature is really a single unified harmonious force,more like a multitude of finite forces partly conflicting,partly harmonious and in constant flux, which could 'metaphorically' be grouped as one and called god/nature...... Would be interesting to discuss this topic in more detail......Dear enquirer,
I believe that multitude of finite forces (as you mentioned) fall within defined lines of nature. These forces may be harmonious or discordant. Anything that happens, happen for good, bad or both, thereby dictating life. Nature/reality simply IS, and yes metaphorically can be convened as god. But isn't god itself a figurative term as imagined, only that it is applied positively by most?
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Dear enquirer,
I believe that multitude of finite forces (as you mentioned) fall within defined lines of nature. These forces may be harmonious or discordant. Anything that happens, happen for good, bad or both, thereby dictating life. Nature/reality simply IS, and yes metaphorically can be convened as god. But isn't god itself a figurative term as imagined, only that it is applied positively by most?
absolutely, just look at the good or positive outcome which is still happening- progressing.
just the human body so advanced in its structure and it took quite a few years to become what it is- positive result on positive result to what is a such an intelligent advanced biologically based self progressing animal and of course the forces which are or have done this cannot be simply random - just look at the human being and the other living organisms in nature.God Bless.
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Mz,whad do you think has happened to the progressive positive design of those born with ' physical defects','mental impairements',terminal painful diseases and such like? Are these designed by a benevolent 'intelligence as well? Why do you doubt that this couldnt happen by random chance,or slow evolution...?
ps; and what has happened to the positive design of serial killers? -
Mz,whad do you think has happened to the progressive positive design of those born with ' physical defects','mental impairements',terminal painful diseases and such like? Are these designed by a benevolent 'intelligence as well? Why do you doubt that this couldnt happen by random chance,or slow evolution...?
ps; and what has happened to the positive design of serial killers?Trial.
Error.
Etc.
Any argument that doesn't take the anthropic principle into account always fails.
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Mz,whad do you think has happened to the progressive positive design of those born with ' physical defects','mental impairements',terminal painful diseases and such like? Are these designed by a benevolent 'intelligence as well? Why do you doubt that this couldnt happen by random chance,or slow evolution...?
ps; and what has happened to the positive design of serial killers?Salaams Br,
What percentage is born with a mental or physical defect? isn't it possible these defects are outcomes as well to progress from. Haven't we found great results/ cures because we exist so isn't that part of the positive trait as well?
Can this eye of mine come about by random? Just check how complex it is.
Same goes with the ears, stomach...........And don?t forget about siamese twins
isn't it possible to prevent such things in the future, if it is isn't that also positive progress???
Salaams.
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Can this eye of mine come about by random? Just check how complex it is.
Same goes with the ears, stomach...........isn't it possible to prevent such things in the future, if it is isn't that also positive progress???
Yes, definitely. Doesn't matter about complexity when you have 4.6 billion years.
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Yes, definitely. Doesn't matter about complexity when you have 4.6 billion years.
Okay but why isn't it going in the other direction?
I believe there is something of a life force.
Described by the attributes and we are told to create this life force aswell- in the quran.
Thanks.
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OPF,does god need trial and error to progress?
Mz,when you state the principle that 'progress' is only going forward does this take into account all species,such as dinasaurs,did they go forward......? I think to say it all goes forwards is just like a simplistic kind of tautology, i mean time always goes forward,does this mean something is directing time,or is this the nature of time itself?
Look at the complexity of a computer,a car or a rocket,does this need a 'divine' perfect life force creator to design it? No,it just needs a human sufficently developed,with enough trial and error,resources and experience to make it....
The presence of a watch in the sand does not imply a perfect divine watchmaker,but implies a human watchmaker,no? -
On trial and error, it's not so much "need" (omnipotence) as will. Another problem with formulating a concept of God and using that concept to think of God.
As for the complexity argument (which is dubious with time anyway), watches, computers, and whatnot are nowhere near as complex as biological lifeforms. Maybe when the first artificial microbe is created.
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OPF,does god need trial and error to progress?
Mz,when you state the principle that 'progress' is only going forward does this take into account all species,such as dinasaurs,did they go forward......? I think to say it all goes forwards is just like a simplistic kind of tautology, i mean time always goes forward,does this mean something is directing time,or is this the nature of time itself?
Look at the complexity of a computer,a car or a rocket,does this need a 'divine' perfect life force creator to design it? No,it just needs a human sufficently developed,with enough trial and error,resources and experience to make it....
The presence of a watch in the sand does not imply a perfect divine watchmaker,but implies a human watchmaker,no?As we all know The life-force takes very many years to make changes to nature, so it has developed come up with you and me to speed things up - i reckon, and has inspired in us its nature as well, but has warned us that if we go in the opposite direction to its nature we will be punished for it and vice versa.
question of dinosaurs- do we still travel in steam locomotives or have we done away with them when we came up with better alternatives?
Gods Blessings.