An Invitation from a Muslim Cleric to You

zenje

Peace anamuslimarabi and welcome to the forum. I hope you're not discouraged from participating and reading other threads because of this one. Just for your information, the one who started this site/forum is also an arab, and there are other arab and arab speaking members on board also.

Again, welcome.

noble

Peace
To my knowledge, the Arabs The Quran is referring to are the Bedouins, who were well known to be very stubborn and sectarians (divided in Tribes)... It is a fact, and we are still seeing it today in Iraq, or elsewhere when they have a chance to express themselves like in Gaza...
By the way I have Arabic blood through my father... and have no issues with the Arabs whatsoever, but Allah did mention them (the bedouins of them) in not very flattering terms, and who are we to deny that...
I believe and we must that The Quran will stay relevant until JD, and so among the Arabs we will still have these (sectarian) problems...
Yes The Quran was revealed in Arabic to an Arab Prophet who delivered it initially to Arabs starting with his closest of kins most probably...
Therefore it makes it a bigger responsibility, no a lesser one, for the Arabs as they have the advantage of being able to understand it better than non-Arabs- this might be why they get punished more by Allah, as we can see that our lives as a community is pretty gloomy. They should lead on The Quran foundations, instead...
"You were the best community raised for Mankind, you enjoin good and forbid evil, and you believe in Allah"...

jankren

No, they preserved what others done, and this others is appreciated by non Arabs more than them. The phiolosophy they preserved is not theirs, but others,

It seems you have not read much about Arab history brother. First of all, all civilizations started by borrowing ideas from others. If all the Arabs did was 'stealing' from the Greeks, Indians, and Persians then using the same logic all the Roman did was stealing from the Greeks too and the Greeks stole from the Phoenicians and the Phoenicians from the Lydians and so forth.

Secondly, I dont think Al Farabi, Al Kindy, Ibn Rushd, or Ibn Khaldun were just plagiarists with no original thought of their own.

and today if you preach that stuff in the Arab World you will be labelled an apostate. Philosophy is now finished in the Arab world. Who cares about the past, today the Arabs are the sick man of the Muslim world, yet they brag and boast about themselves beyond imagination.

If you are talking about today's state of the Arab world then I share your sentiment.

Layth

Dear Bigmo,

While I find your Arab bashing amusing, I think I need point out some errors in your logic

The Quran speaks of Aaraab as being mainly hypocrates. As we can see from 9120, the term Aaraab is used in opposition to city dwellers thus making the word mean nomads and not Arabs (they are singled out by God because there nomadic lifestyle makes them unstable and more prone to corruption and hypoctacy - like Gypsies are viewed in Europe).
Arabic is a language, it is not a race. Therefore, the whole premise that there are people who belong to this race is flawed. Arabic language spread with the Quran to many places, especially around the Middle East. The Prophet was semetic (a decendant of Abraham), as are some of the Arab speakers who live in the ME area, But many Arab speakers are phenocian, African, etc.
You use poetry as an example of extremes and then state that Arabic speaking people are like that (they love or hate). Yet, you delibertly chose an aspect of the Arabic language that God Himself has frowned upon and called poets as liars who say what they do not do (26224-227).

Finally, you state that the Arab speaking people (250 million) could not take on poor defensless little Israel with its 6 million invaders. I believe you need to refresh your view on history as it has never been an Israeli-Arab conflict, rather, it has always been an Arab-Western struggle as the people who supplanted the zionists in Palestine were the Brits during the occupation of WWI, and the people who legitimized the bastardization of Palestine to the zionists was none other the UN in 1948 with the backing of the most powerful nations on Earth, and the armies which continue to arm and equip poor little Israel are the strongest military machines. Therefore, it is not about fighting Israel alone, but it is about fighting the forces that make Israel possible.

Bigmo

It seems you have not read much about Arab history brother. First of all, all civilizations started by borrowing ideas from others. If all the Arabs did was 'stealing' from the Greeks, Indians, and Persians then using the same logic all the Roman did was stealing from the Greeks too and the Greeks stole from the Phoenicians and the Phoenicians from the Lydians and so forth.

Secondly, I dont think Al Farabi, Al Kindy, Ibn Rushd, or Ibn Khaldun were just plagiarists with no original thought of their own.
If you are talking about today's state of the Arab world then I share your sentiment.

Saudi Shura Council member Ibrahim Al-Buleihi Terrorism Is the Product of a Flaw in Arab and Muslim Culture

Following are excerpts from an interview with Saudi Shura Council member Ibrahim Al-Buleihi, which aired on Channel 1, Saudi TV, on May 23, 2006.

Interviewer Some elements in Arab and Muslim societies have intensified the hostility towards Arabs and Muslims, through their acts of violence and terrorism, to the point that we see images of slaughtering the other - American or European - live on TV.

Ibrahim Al-Buleihi In my opinion, we should not describe these people as deviant. This is the product of our culture.

They are the product of a culture that believes the other does not deserve to live, and is an absolute enemy with whom no understanding is possible.

There is a fundamental flaw in our culture that leads to this behavior. This ideology, which was advocated by Sayyid Qutb, and which is implemented by those who kill innocent people - women, children, and people who have done nothing wrong - did not emerge out of thin air, but is the product of this culture. This is a one-dimensional culture, a culture of tyranny - tyranny in culture, in politics, in society, in the family, and in everything.

The "other" does not have to be someone completely different. When we disagree with someone, even over a shoe-shine, we regard him as the "other," we boycott him, we excommunicate him, defame him, level accusations at him, and so on.

Even the Arabs know this. Muhammad Abdul Wahhab, Syed Qutab and Osama Bin Laden, Hassan Al Banna. Omar Abdul Rahman.

Damn, if they only wrote some stuff down about the prophet rather than just talk about it, none of us would have even came to this site.

But brickwall

http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFTltkvdFE8

Samia

Those who bash at any race or culture I just congratulate them because they chose not to be part of it and made themselves into who they are. God will definitely reward them with high ranks for the achievement they made! They are not different from those who think that their malehood makes them God on earth. All three lend a blind eye to the verse

"O mankind! We have created you from a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another, but the most honourable of you in God's eyes is the most righteous. God is All-Knowing All Aware" 4913.

I expected at least criticism based on what God stated the choice by some people to be or not to be righteous. I wanted to see that Arabs were responsible for the corruption of the deen; for inventing hadith and sunnah which we are struggling with, but nothing like that. Of course, because those "triplets" are the lovers of hadith and sunnah, and , I believe just because hadith and sunnah are not an Arab invention, they believe in them and feel at home with them. Is it a coincidence that those who think they were privileged with being males, always have at least a bit of hadith an sunnah "decorating" their belief?

Unless we get rid of "being proud" for being this race or that race (which is the equivalent of bashing at this or that race), and follow what God stated concerning these differences, we are not going to improve one inch.

Bigmo

Those who bash at any race or culture I just congratulate them because they chose not to be part of it and made themselves into who they are. God will definitely reward them with high ranks for the achievement they made! They are not different from those who think that their malehood makes them God on earth. All three lend a blind eye to the verse

"O mankind! We have created you from a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another, but the most honourable of you in God's eyes is the most righteous. God is All-Knowing All Aware" 4913.

I expected at least criticism based on what God stated the choice by some people to be or not to be righteous. I wanted to see that Arabs were responsible for the corruption of the deen; for inventing hadith and sunnah which we are struggling with, but nothing like that. Of course, because those "triplets" are the lovers of hadith and sunnah, and , I believe just because hadith and sunnah are not an Arab invention, they believe in them and feel at home with them. Is it a coincidence that those who think they were privileged with being males, always have at least a bit of hadith an sunnah "decorating" their belief?

Unless we get rid of "being proud" for being this race or that race (which is the equivalent of bashing at this or that race), and follow what God stated concerning these differences, we are not going to improve one inch.

If it wasn't for the Persians who even bothered writing hadiths down, these Arabs today couldn't even have hadiths. Yet many of them look down on the Persians.

By the way how did you find the video I posted about Taraji Mustafa?

Bigmo

Dear Bigmo,

While I find your Arab bashing amusing, I think I need point out some errors in your logic

The Quran speaks of Aaraab as being mainly hypocrates. As we can see from 9120, the term Aaraab is used in opposition to city dwellers thus making the word mean nomads and not Arabs (they are singled out by God because there nomadic lifestyle makes them unstable and more prone to corruption and hypoctacy - like Gypsies are viewed in Europe).
Arabic is a language, it is not a race. Therefore, the whole premise that there are people who belong to this race is flawed. Arabic language spread with the Quran to many places, especially around the Middle East. The Prophet was semetic (a decendant of Abraham), as are some of the Arab speakers who live in the ME area, But many Arab speakers are phenocian, African, etc.
You use poetry as an example of extremes and then state that Arabic speaking people are like that (they love or hate). Yet, you delibertly chose an aspect of the Arabic language that God Himself has frowned upon and called poets as liars who say what they do not do (26224-227).

Finally, you state that the Arab speaking people (250 million) could not take on poor defensless little Israel with its 6 million invaders. I believe you need to refresh your view on history as it has never been an Israeli-Arab conflict, rather, it has always been an Arab-Western struggle as the people who supplanted the zionists in Palestine were the Brits during the occupation of WWI, and the people who legitimized the bastardization of Palestine to the zionists was none other the UN in 1948 with the backing of the most powerful nations on Earth, and the armies which continue to arm and equip poor little Israel are the strongest military machines. Therefore, it is not about fighting Israel alone, but it is about fighting the forces that make Israel possible.

We are talking about the Arab mentality, they still talk as if they are superior to others. Look carefully at Islam in the Arab world, and you will see that the places where Quranist are going to be persecuted the most is the Arab countries. They went to Somalia, Afghanistan, Chechniya causing havoc. Now I am not attacking them as a race, but as a culture that have attitude problems and have a dictatorial understanding of Islam and yet brag and boast. They think the whole is conspiring against them and continously flatter themselves. They talk a good game but their actions are something else. Yes, Pakistanis and some Indians also have attitude problems but they don't boast. Arabs love to talk, and talk is cheap.

Samia

If it wasn't for the Persians who even bothered writing hadiths down, these Arabs today couldn't even have hadiths. Yet many of them look down on the Persians.

By the way how did you find the video I posted about Taraji Mustafa?

They look down upon Persians from a racist point of view. As I said, racism, culturism and male-ism are faces of the prism of irrationalism. You can find in such people all kinds of contradictions, because what they endorse is not from God.

Before watching her video, I was sympathetic about the idea. I first heard about her while I was in the Sudan and I defended her "noble" stand,because to me, the problem is not West v East, or Jews v Muslims or even Israelis v Arabs..it is people v governments. When I watched her video, I was really disappointed. She is just an attention seeking racist. She does not differentiate between "people" and "institutions". She is not aiming at peace but at some gains.

Alen

Salam.

People.
This is what the enemy wants, for us to argue.

offtopic

Salam.

unknownuser

Salam.

People.
This is what the enemy wants, for us to argue.

offtopic

Salam.

Yes, if you people are arguing like this, how on Earth do you expect to argue against some cleric with years of education/research (I assume) behind him?

zenje

Maybe the cleric should be invited here, specifically to this thread.

PEACE

Layth

Salam Bigmo,

We are talking about the Arab mentality, they still talk as if they are superior to others. Look carefully at Islam in the Arab world, and you will see that the places where Quranist are going to be persecuted the most is the Arab countries. They went to Somalia, Afghanistan, Chechniya causing havoc. Now I am not attacking them as a race, but as a culture that have attitude problems and have a dictatorial understanding of Islam and yet brag and boast. They think the whole is conspiring against them and continously flatter themselves. They talk a good game but their actions are something else. Yes, Pakistanis and some Indians also have attitude problems but they don't boast. Arabs love to talk, and talk is cheap.

Rashad Khalifa was murdered in Tuscon USA for calling to God Alone.

Did Arabs invade America and commit genocide against millions of its native inhabitants?

Did Arabs march on Jerusalem murdering hundreds of thousands of innocents in their crusade?

Did Arabs cause two world wars killing nearly 100 million people?

Did Arabs firebomb Tokyo murdering an estimated 100,000 people in just one night?

Did Arabs drop two nuclear bombs on civilian poulations murdering tens of thousands?

Did Arabs murder 600,000 Philipenos during a brutal occupation which is still in-place?

Did Arabs murder over 1 million Algerians during a brutal occupation?

Did Arabs murder nearly 3 million Vietnamese with over a decade of bombing and brutal occupation?

Did Arabs murder 3 million Iraqis with sanctions and over a decade of warfare?

You have a complex against a people whose main crime is not having the backbone to stand up to the real evil that prevails in the world. Not letting women show their hair or praising the prophet day and night pales by comparisson to the people who enjoy uriniating on human beings and then beating them to a pulp while photographing and taking pride in their actions.

The real emeny are the people who carry out the work of Satan while claiming they are the rightoues ones.

unknownuser

Tu quoque....Oppression is wrong whoever does it......A pick pocket thief saying he is purer/better than a bank robber is somewhat of a moot point,dont you think?

zenje

Tu quoque....Oppression is wrong whoever does it
Agreed.

A pick pocket thief saying he is purer/better than a bank robber is somewhat of a moot point,dont you think?

I don't agree with this example. Although, I see what you're trying to say. A pickpocket, may steal a little money, just like the bank robber would in a bigger way. But we've seen many instances where people get killed in bank robberies. I've never heard of a pickpocket kill his victim.

peace

unknownuser

My example,as you may appreciate,is not a literal example,but just showing how the pot calling the kettle black may not be valid....As i said,oppression is oppression,and maybe its more of a double standard and hypocritical coming from folks who 'claim' to have some kind of 'divine truth or be 'people of justice',be they arab or otherwise'.....
I know there have been major faults on both sides,but who would you rather live under,the US or Saudi?
ps; if saudi or some such similiar type country had the millitary power/influence of the US,how do you think they would conduct themseleves on the world stage in terms of oppression? Better or worse thasn the US?

unknownuser

Peace Be Upon You

Bro Enquirer, Saudi Arabia is actually a very peaceful country in respect to its neighbors. Even though they have a strong economy and apparently alot of power since U.S. bows down to it like a slave, they never once committed such atrocities as were listed in Bro Layth's previous post. Would you care to rephrase?

Are we now talking about Arab governments or is it still "hate all arabs" day?

zenje

ps; if saudi or some such similiar type country had the millitary power/influence of the US,how do you think they would conduct themseleves on the world stage in terms of oppression? Better or worse thasn the US?
Honestly?... better. I don't think anyone has done much worse than U.S. to date.

Boost... any word on the date/time? Or should I be asking if it's still on, first.

mz

If he is that generous then he would surely join us here.....

I agree.

Don't trust these mullah's and sheiks.

Ones i tried something like this - in a mosque , but right to the last minute the guys , three mullahs all from Medina university couldn't answer the questions and where gob smacked - and finally one of them the strongest held me from the collar of coat and threatened me but my friends intervened.

I wouldn't give a f... to these C... S......

They are all heathens.

Just you be careful you Guys and Gals.

I would never go for an open debate and wouldn't advice anybody neither.

God Bless.

palestina

peace all,

i dont think we should be calling people "heathens" no matter what they believe - everyone is on a journey searching for the truth - whether they are sunni or whatever - leave it between them and god....
its starting to bug me a little how judgemental people can be on here about other beliefs that arent yet as progressive or open or whatever... i think everyone should show more respect -
if i stumbled on this site now and went through the posts i dont think id come back - there is so much negativity about others....
and this site is meant to be open to all - as a sunni i would feel targeted here and so get defensive rather than opening up to new ideas and interpretations! we all need to chill a little!

peace