Questions for Quran upholders
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Peace,
That was NOT an example of how teach is used in Qur?an.
That was an example of how Qur?an teaches!
I could have used 100s of verses and chose that one at random; how many times does ?say? or qul appear in Qur?an once again?
It was to show how Qur?an is detailed and explains its own self; whom to marry; help orphans, be a good person, and countless other instructions and stories about the lives of Prophets. Not sure was I have to state the obvious; you do read Qur'an right?
Now, do you want to explain the exact meaning of this verse...
http//www.islamicity.com/mosque/arabicscript/Ayat/41/41_3.htm
Kitabun fussilat ayatuhu quranan AAarabiyyan liqawmin yaAAlamoona
413 A Book, whereof the verses are explained in detail;- a Qur'an in Arabic, for people who understand;-How come you never answer any questions or only answer with more questions?
This is what I?ve encountered with Christian fanatics while asking them a simple question
Why does God need to pray; and to Himself?
Then nothing only more questions and diversionary tactics usually bringing up ridiculous hadith.
Dear Brother
Again not true You are saying that ,"That was NOT an example of how teach is used in Qur?an.
That was an example of how Qur?an teaches!"
And you brought it under the discussion of verb "yullimu"
Why so ?
while the exact word in your previous post wereNo dear brother teaches can also mean giving information, for example
1883 They ask thee concerning Zul-qarnain. Say, "I will rehearse to you something of his story."
Here you want to tell me that word " is used for teaching ?? If so ,prove it dear
You said
How come you never answer any questions or only answer with more questions?
The reason is very simple This is modes operandi of the Quranists to divert the dicussion.For example here we are disussing the meaning of "Yuallim" but you have put another Aya as a question .We can discuss that also after this word is decided.
Aya under discusssion is2129
It has verbs related to our discussionAnd three objects
Please give their separate meanings ,so we discuss them in our next session .
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In 412, I don't think 'tanzeelun' means revelation but rather "appeared from/came from". The word 'fusilat' in 413 can mean clear/plain and not "explained in detail" and the word 'yaAlamoon' can mean "knowing" or "who knows".
- Appeared/came from most gracious, most merciful.
- A book whose verses were clear/plain; an Arabic reading to people knowing/who knows.
Changes the context and understanding somewhat, if I am not mistaken. -X
"Fusilat" means "detailed." "Fasala" can mean "make clear."
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"Fusilat" means "detailed." "Fasala" can mean "make clear."
I thought "fassalna" meant detailed/explained and fasala being a derivative of fusilat meaning clearer, clearly or made plainer/plainly. -
I thought "fassalna" meant detailed/explained and fasala being a derivative of fusilat meaning clearer, clearly or made plainer/plainly.
FASALA To set apart, separate, distinguish, set a limit, part, depart, decide, set out, divide into parts, expatiate into detail, make clear (statement), distinct, judge, narrate a thing with all its particulars.
FASLUN Distinguishing, Decisive
MUFASSALAN Clearly explained
FUSSILAT Detailed
MUFASSALAT Fully detailed -
FASALA To set apart, separate, distinguish, set a limit, part, depart, decide, set out, divide into parts, expatiate into detail, make clear (statement), distinct, judge, narrate a thing with all its particulars.
FASLUN Distinguishing, Decisive
MUFASSALAN Clearly explained
FUSSILAT Detailed
MUFASSALAT Fully detailed
Hmmm, okay OM, thanks. I shall further check into their proper meanings unless others pitch in their views. Anyhow, my personal view is that I don't believe the Quran is "fully detailed" since there are several controversial and incomplete subjects to be deciphered. -
Hmmm, okay OM, thanks. I shall further check into their proper meanings unless others pitch in their views. Anyhow, my personal view is that I don't believe the Quran is "fully detailed" since there are several controversial and incomplete subjects to be deciphered.
Alright, let me know if you get more information that conflicts with what I've said.
Well, personally I believe it's complete in everything we need to know for our guidance. What subjects are you talking about?
Peace
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Again not true You are saying that ,
"That was NOT an example of how teach is used in Qur?an.
That was an example of how Qur?an teaches!"
And you brought it under the discussion of verb "yullimu"
Why so ?Dearest Brother -- that is FALSE!
I was replying to your post; read carefully ? you wroteSo you agree That word "yuallimu" in Aya
2129
Means Teaches the book not "giving the book"
I replied to Means Teaches the book not "giving the book"
No dear brother ?teaches can also mean giving information, for example?
1883 They ask thee concerning Zul-qarnain. Say, "I will rehearse to you something of his story."
Thus example was shown.
Then another example was given in verse 126 wayuAAallimuka
?and teaches/informs you? can also mean giving knowledge.
Then 381 "I give you a Book and Wisdom;?
Then Surah 55.
Then Surah 41.YOU skipped and dodged as usual asking more questions.
This is modes operandi of the Quranists to divert the dicussion.
This describes exactly YOU ? modes operandi proven?
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2807;sa=showPostsThe vast majority of your posts are only questions, add little if any value; always dodging.
As stated before, this is like conversing with a parrot.And three objects
Please give their separate meanings ,so we discuss them in our next session .
Yes dear; first see 3119 -- a common trait of hadithists.
http//www.islamawakened.com/Quran/31/19/The please check all prior-posts in the forum and answer ALL un-answered questions.
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Dearest Brother -- that is FALSE!
I was replying to your post; read carefully ? you wroteI replied to Means Teaches the book not "giving the book"
No dear brother ?teaches can also mean giving information, for example?
1883 They ask thee concerning Zul-qarnain. Say, "I will rehearse to you something of his story."
Thus example was shown.
Then another example was given in verse 126 wayuAAallimuka
?and teaches/informs you? can also mean giving knowledge.
Then 381 "I give you a Book and Wisdom;?
Then Surah 55.
Then Surah 41.YOU skipped and dodged as usual asking more questions.
This describes exactly YOU ? modes operandi proven?
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2807;sa=showPostsThe vast majority of your posts are only questions, add little if any value; always dodging.
As stated before, this is like conversing with a parrot.Yes dear; first see 3119 -- a common trait of hadithists.
http//www.islamawakened.com/Quran/31/19/The please check all prior-posts in the forum and answer ALL un-answered questions.
Dear
Again you are trying to distract the discussion.
What is the difference betweenand
???
or you think these are one and same thing? -
Alright, let me know if you get more information that conflicts with what I've said.
The meanings you presented above were taken from Lane's main (introductory) page. In volume 6, pages 189, 190, 191 & 192, I didn't find an explanation of the word "fussilat" to mean 'detailed' but rather almost all words mentioned in those pages having the root FA-SAD-LAM points towards having similar connotations to being distinctive, plain, seperate, signify, disgtinguish, etc. but not "detailed or fully detailed".I believe the word "tafseel" means detailed/explained and the word "fussilat" more appropriately to mean "make plain/clear". It may be used interchangeably though. For example, in 655 the word "mufassilu" is used to signify "clarity (to make plain)" of the verses in order to show the sinner's path.
655 And accordingly we "make plain" the verses and to show/expose the sinner's/criminal's path.
Well, personally I believe it's complete in everything we need to know for our guidance. What subjects are you talking about?
Well, I am not sure if you can call it guidance, advice, commands or simply an overall threat. If someone gives you an advice or a guidance especially from a sincere honest perosn, does it follow a command with a threat. This is a seperate topic to be discussed in Quranic Divinity or Nature of God sections.As far as incomplete subjects are concerned, there are several such as hajj, salaat, ramadan, punishments, etc. to name a few. Please take my responses as discussions/criticisms of a book and not personal attacks.
Peace!
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The meanings you presented above were taken from Lane's main (introductory) page. In volume 6, pages 189, 190, 191 & 192, I didn't find an explanation of the word "fussilat" to mean 'detailed' but rather almost all words mentioned in those pages having the root FA-SAD-LAM points towards having similar connotations to being distinctive, plain, seperate, signify, disgtinguish, etc. but not "detailed or fully detailed".
I believe the word "tafseel" means detailed/explained and the word "fussilat" more appropriately to mean "make plain/clear". It may be used interchangeably though. For example, in 655 the word "mufassilu" is used to signify "clarity (to make plain)" of the verses in order to show the sinner's path.
655 And accordingly we "make plain" the verses and to show/expose the sinner's/criminal's path.
Well, I am not sure if you can call it guidance, advice, commands or simply an overall threat. If someone gives you an advice or a guidance especially from a sincere honest perosn, does it follow a command with a threat. This is a seperate topic to be discussed in Quranic Divinity or Nature of God sections.As far as incomplete subjects are concerned, there are several such as hajj, salaat, ramadan, punishments, etc. to name a few. Please take my responses as discussions/criticisms of a book and not personal attacks.
Peace!
Can you please put the Definition of "Taleem" from Lane's lexicon ?
Thanks in advance -
The meanings you presented above were taken from Lane's main (introductory) page. In volume 6, pages 189, 190, 191 & 192, I didn't find an explanation of the word "fussilat" to mean 'detailed' but rather almost all words mentioned in those pages having the root FA-SAD-LAM points towards having similar connotations to being distinctive, plain, seperate, signify, disgtinguish, etc. but not "detailed or fully detailed".
I believe the word "tafseel" means detailed/explained and the word "fussilat" more appropriately to mean "make plain/clear". It may be used interchangeably though. For example, in 655 the word "mufassilu" is used to signify "clarity (to make plain)" of the verses in order to show the sinner's path.
655 And accordingly we "make plain" the verses and to show/expose the sinner's/criminal's path.
I will look further into this. I just took from Lane's and all the translations use the word "detailed." Perhaps I was not sincere enough.
There are other verses, however, that say the quran is complete.
Well, I am not sure if you can call it guidance, advice, commands or simply an overall threat. If someone gives you an advice or a guidance especially from a sincere honest perosn, does it follow a command with a threat. This is a seperate topic to be discussed in Quranic Divinity or Nature of God sections.
In my opinion (assuming it is from God), I think it's all we need and no outside sources. Because to say this would be to say God didn't finish the job. It seems so clear to me that this is all we need and not accept other laws regarding the deen from outside sources.
As far as incomplete subjects are concerned, there are several such as hajj, salaat, ramadan, punishments, etc. to name a few. Please take my responses as discussions/criticisms of a book and not personal attacks.
Peace!
I don't see how these are incomplete. Could you elaborate? Perhaps I am missing something.
I appreciate your kindness, I don't take anything as a personal attack unless it actually is one. And I hope you do the same for my responses.
Peace
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Salam,
Beautifully written piece. Loved reading all of it. Very informative, clear and straight forward.
May Allah reward you for sharing your work.
PEACE
------------------------- Student of Allah