Was it Ismail or Isaac??
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Everything happends for a reason,... imagine, this whole discussion probably won't occur in this way at this time if Ishamel's name is mentioned in the verse! No misunderstanding, no lessons, no tests would have occured the way it have happened in this discussion.
Every move a chess player made or did NOT make, has a purpose.
I believe things happen for a reason too. I also think God says things and does not say things in the Quran for a reason. One day, Inshalla, we will understand.
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Salaam Nun de plume,
You cannot understand Quran fully without the help of the miracle of 19, it is very much part and parcel of it all.
Peace Ijaz,
OK we'll get to the bottom of this...
Why did you use only verses 101-107?
What about verses 100, 108, and the other verses in surah 37?
Oh, I get it any kid in secondary school can figure this out. lol
Man seriously, drop the numbers stuff and read Qur?an before you go insane looking for patterns.
Regards
I did not use 100 and 108 because it is not part of the story of Ismail and Abraham, I used the verses which were concerning Ismail and Abraham only and quite rightly so..
Let me tell you what these verses say;
"My Lord, grant me righteous children."
And we preserved his history for subsequent generations.
As you can see 37100 is taking about "children" not "child" or "son" and the story finishes at 107 and 108 is not part of the story but a reminder that this story is preserved..
I have no problem with finding the codes, in fact it explains the Quranic facts to me and is a sign and living example of God working with our lives.. What kind of signs do you see??
Regards
Ijaz
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Salaam Dotty,
I also think God says things and does not say things in the Quran for a reason. One day, Inshalla, we will understand.
What if this is the reason, why God did not say Ismail's name in these verses because the name was coded in these verses like I demonstrated to you, BUT YOU REJECTED IT!!
Regards
Ijaz
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Salaam
We have been through this before.
It has to be Ishmael. Not because of the numbers.
Because of the following verse1171 And his wife was standing (there), and she laughed But we gave her glad tidings of ISAAC, and after him, of Jacob.
The glad tiding above would have been false if Issac were to be sacrificed at a young age since there can be no Jacob, son of Issac.
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Salaam warner,
you are not making sense;
Salaam
We have been through this before.
It has to be Ishmael. Not because of the numbers.
Because of the following verse1171 And his wife was standing (there), and she laughed But we gave her glad tidings of ISAAC, and after him, of Jacob.
The glad tiding above would have been false if Issac were to be sacrificed at a young age since there can be no Jacob, son of Issac.
No one got sacrificed..
However if you want further confirmation then this is it, carrying on from 37101 the story of Ismail and Abrahim, 37112 says
Birth of Isaac
Then we gave him the good news about the birth of Isaac, to be one of the righteous prophets.
We blessed him and Isaac. Among their descendants, some are righteous, and some are wicked transgressors.
However, it still leaves 37101 - 108 little unambigous, ie was there any one else besides Isaac and Ismail mentioned in 37101-108, hence the gv and code comes in handy..
Regards
Ijaz
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What if this is the reason, why God did not say Ismail's name in these verses because the name was coded in these verses like I demonstrated to you, BUT YOU REJECTED IT!!
I'm not rejecting anything here. I just don't see how it is important to my life in the next world if it is clear to me whether it was Ishmael or not.
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Salaam Ijaz
You seem not to understand the most basic logis.
If the dream to sacrifice was referring to Issac , Abraham would have known right away it is false since Issacs son Jacob is already mentioned by the malaika. Do you think the malaika was joking ?
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Salaam Dotty,
You need to know that it was Ismail for a very important reason mentioned in the Quran..
I'm not rejecting anything here. I just don't see how it is important to my life in the next world if it is clear to me whether it was Ishmael or not.
To obtain certainty through God's revelations, this indeed is most important proviso for Muslims to obtain certainty..
Is it the law of the days of ignorance that they seek to uphold? Whose law is better than GOD's for those who have attained certainty?
We showed Abraham the marvels of the heavens and the earth, and blessed him with certainty
And worship your Lord, in order to attain certainty.*
Regards
Ijaz
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Salaam warner,
You are absolutely right and chapter 11 was revealed before 37, I understand your logic now..Sorry;
Salaam Ijaz
You seem not to understand the most basic logis.
If the dream to sacrifice was referring to Issac , Abraham would have known right away it is false since Issacs son Jacob is already mentioned by the malaika. Do you think the malaika was joking ?
So there is over wellming evidence that it was Ismail, however the code confirms it further and according to God in 7431, this code should augment your belief further, Does it or are rejecting it??
.. to disturb the disbelievers, (2) to convince the Christians and Jews (that this is a divine scripture), (3) to strengthen the faith of the faithful, (4) to remove all traces of doubt from the hearts of Christians, Jews, as well as the believers, and (5) to expose those who harbor doubt in their hearts, and the disbelievers; they will say, "What did GOD mean by this allegory?"
Regards
Ijaz
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Salaam dotty,
Sorry for the late reply, I missed your post. Appologies accepted, I hope you sort out your car safley Inshalla..
In my heart I was not trying to make you look like a fool. I still feel that the name is irrelevant, but the wording in my post was showing a lot of attitude (I came home after finding damage to my car from a hit and runner... no excuse, just the truth) Anyway, I posted in other threads with an attitude as well and for all of them I apologize. Btw, I am a believer, but sometimes believers also make mistakes, as I proved here and elsewhere.
So I always understood the Quran to be complete... just complete. Is that not correct?
There is no evidence in the Quran that it is complete, the only one verse which talks about Quran being complete is as follows;
The word of your Lord is complete, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient.
It quite clearly says "The word of your Lord is complete, in truth and justice" which is not the same as "COMPLETE" as in Quran does not need any other explainations eg the mathematical miracle of 19..
Kind Regards
Ijaz
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Peace,
Has anyone considered that it may have been neither Ismail or Issac?
Lot is mentioned in the Quran as being from the progeny of Abraham (686).
We are also told that Lot believed and emigrated with Abraham before the shrine was raised by Abraham/Ismail.
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It quite clearly says "The word of your Lord is complete, in truth and justice" which is not the same as "COMPLETE" as in Quran does not need any other explainations eg the mathematical miracle of 19..
wow this justifies hadith as well now brickwall
bro layth brings up a great point
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Salaam Layth,
It cannot be Lot for the following three reasons;
Peace,
Has anyone considered that it may have been neither Ismail or Issac?
Lot is mentioned in the Quran as being from the progeny of Abraham (686).
We are also told that Lot believed and emigrated with Abraham before the shrine was raised by Abraham/Ismail.
- The mathematical miracle of 19 proves otherwise.
- Because of the following verses, and Lot was not Abrahams son;
"My Lord, grant me righteous children."
We gave him good news of a good child.
When he grew enough to work with him, he said, "My son, I see in a dream that I am sacrificing you. What do you think?" He said, "O my father, do what you are commanded to do. You will find me, GOD willing, patient." - Because of the following verses;
Birth of Isaac
Then we gave him the good news about the birth of Isaac, to be one of the righteous prophets.
We blessed him and Isaac. Among their descendants, some are righteous, and some are wicked transgressors.
These to verses follow immediately after and is confirming 37100, ie Abraham having righteous children..
Regards
Ijaz
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Salaam DArgento,
wow this justifies hadith as well now brickwall
bro layth brings up a great point
No Hadith is specificaly prohibited in the Quran, the only external help to explain the Quran will be the mathematical miracle of ninteen and the derived gv's.
Have they not looked at the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all the things GOD has created? Does it ever occur to them that the end of their life may be near? Which Hadith, beside this, do they believe in?
The Quran is All We Need
In their history, there is a lesson for those who possess intelligence. This is not fabricated Hadith; this (Quran) confirms all previous scriptures, provides the details of everything, and is a beacon and mercy for those who believe.
Among the people, there are those who uphold baseless Hadith, and thus divert others from the path of GOD without knowledge, and take it in vain. These have incurred a shameful retribution.
The Best Hadith
GOD has revealed herein the best Hadith; a book that is consistent, and points out both ways (to Heaven and Hell). The skins of those who reverence their Lord cringe therefrom, then their skins and their hearts soften up for GOD's message. Such is GOD's guidance; He bestows it upon whoever wills (to be guided). As for those sent astray by GOD, nothing can guide them.
We appointed angels to be guardians of Hell, and we assigned their number (19) (1) to disturb the disbelievers, (2) to convince the Christians and Jews (that this is a divine scripture), (3) to strengthen the faith of the faithful, (4) to remove all traces of doubt from the hearts of Christians, Jews, as well as the believers, and (5) to expose those who harbor doubt in their hearts, and the disbelievers; they will say, "What did GOD mean by this allegory?" GOD thus sends astray whomever He wills, and guides whomever He wills. None knows the soldiers of your Lord except He. This is a reminder for the people.
Regards
Ijaz
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Salaam Dotty,
You need to know that it was Ismail for a very important reason mentioned in the Quran..
To obtain certainty through God's revelations, this indeed is most important proviso for Muslims to obtain certainty..
Is it the law of the days of ignorance that they seek to uphold? Whose law is better than GOD's for those who have attained certainty?
We showed Abraham the marvels of the heavens and the earth, and blessed him with certainty
And worship your Lord, in order to attain certainty.*
Regards
Ijaz
Attain means to reach, achieve, or accomplish; gain; obtain. And who is to say WHEN certainty is reached? Believing is different that being certain. Do you believe the sun rises every morning, or are you certain the sun rises every morning? Some things are much more obvious than others. All we can do is pray that God protect us from false religious teachings and guide us to the truth.
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Salaam dotty,
Attain means to reach, achieve, or accomplish; gain; obtain. And who is to say WHEN certainty is reached? Believing is different that being certain. Do you believe the sun rises every morning, or are you certain the sun rises every morning? Some things are much more obvious than others. All we can do is pray that God protect us from false religious teachings and guide us to the truth.
It is you and only you who could tell that you have obtained certainty that you have no doubt, that God is our Lord and controls our destinies.
The mathematical miracle of 19 is an other way to obtain this certainty.
If you do not know who is addressed in 37101-108 then you are less certain in this capacity..
I do not believe that I am misleading anyone. If I am then could you please elaborate on that!!
Regards
Ijaz
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It is you and only you who could tell that you have obtained certainty that you have no doubt, that God is our Lord and controls our destinies.
You are right here. Only I will know when I have obtained certainty. I only pray that when I feel that I have obtained certainty... is the truth.
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Layth
Peace,
Has anyone considered that it may have been neither Ismail or Issac?
Lot is mentioned in the Quran as being from the progeny of Abraham (686).
We are also told that Lot believed and emigrated with Abraham before the shrine was raised by Abraham/Ismail.
Bravo! have you and ayman taken the responsibility to mislead Muslims and believers?
