Can You Post this as an Article?

SatanHatesMe

SHM, look at all the posts in this thread. Obviously, no one is taking you seriously. I think it's time for you to reevaluate your stance, or at least give what everyone is saying a little bit of thought.
When Samia said that, she was not asked for evidence and she was no action was taken against her because she was kidding. Unless you are also joking with us, we need to ask you to back up your claims.

Yes Red Lobster. if no one is taking me serious, my request to post this article would simply have been negative, as in a simply no. But some how, I get accused of spiting slander and presenting no evidence. Then I am threatened with disciplinary action.

phoenix1

If they had said "no." You would've asked "why?" and they would've said everything they have anyway.

You have always maintained that PM have a secret agenda that they are promoting through this forum yet you have not been able to provide any evidence of that.
You keep saying PM is confusing issues and demolishing islam. Well, you haven't proven that either, but this we can discuss in other parts of the forum.
You keep telling us that there's no consensus. You don't have to state the obvious, we already know that, and some of us, including myself, believe that we don't need a consensus. Whether a consensus should be our goal or not can be discussed in the other forums as well.
And you've said some other stuff, made some accusations, that were completely false and baseless.

Why don't you stop the criticism and the accusations and discuss the topics one by one. Why don't you show us the true religion of god.

jankren

Hmm, Im waiting for someone to say that ProgressiveMuslim.org was created by Jews. D

unknownuser

OPF, honestly this is pointless.

But since you, Wakas, Zenje, Red Losbter, and any other person who wants to attack me love to throw the term 'slander' around, please show me IN THE KORAN THAT my actions of criticizing PM for not having a consensus, not providing answers, and indirectly demolishing Islam as slander. Although you will never find that explicitly in the Koran, PLEASE present your "evidence" as to why and how IN THE KORAN me saying these statements;

PM have no consensus.
PM confused issues and provided no answers.
PM is indirectly demolish Islam as we know it.

is slander.

Please I want to see this! Oh and please cite verse 3358 as evidence. Please OPF!

025.071
YUSUFALI And whoever repents and does good has truly turned to Allah with an (acceptable) conversion;-
PICKTHAL And whosoever repenteth and doeth good, he verily repenteth toward Allah with true repentance -
SHAKIR And whoever repents and does good, he surely turns to Allah a (goodly) turning.

025.072
YUSUFALI Those who witness no falsehood, and, if they pass by futility, they pass by it with honourable (avoidance);
PICKTHAL And those who will not witness vanity, but when they pass near senseless play, pass by with dignity.
SHAKIR And they who do not bear witness to what is false, and when they pass by what is vain, they pass by nobly.

Try that.

The point is, NOBODY is addressing whether you criticize PM or not - that is irrelevant. However, in doing so, YOU ARE NOT PROVIDING EVIDENCE TO BACK UP YOUR ACCUSATIONS. Hence, it is slander. Criticizing something, WITH PROOF OR EVIDENCE IS NOT SLANDER - it then becomes, from something hated, to a fundamental point of Islam. One of the 6-20 pillars of Islam, dare I say.

When criticism is presented without proof, it is slander. When flattery is presented without proof - it is idolatry. Notice that both of these are bad?

2 and 3 are slander with no evidence, 1 can be slander or not, it depends. The Quran is not a dictionary but it does say to avoid bearing false witness.

unknownuser

And people wonder why I getting attack. Samia basically called Code 19 (which is part of the Koran) "bad" and "not good for kids". Then she said no evidence about why it is bad, nor why it is not good for kids. But to Wakas, it all in good humor? Where is the justice in this forum.

Ok Wakas, what about other example;

A member named Ansi starting a thread calling submitters pretenders.

Please provide another lame excuse why it cool for you to target me when I criticize PM and other members can called aspect of the Koran "bad" and "not good for kids"?

See?

This is all anyone asked for. And yes, that is haterade (the quoted).

That's evidence that your criticism is being addressed properly whereas their criticism hasn't. I don't have the power to do anything about this, but I hope the mods will.

Now bring some addressing the primary points!

unknownuser

Oh, and as devil's advocate, here is the evidence that PM/FM seeks to demolish the 5 pillars of Islam

http//free-minds.org/articles/gods_system/pillars.htm

Wakas

SHM,

Re your reference. I can see why you would regard it as "slander", I do not, but for sake of argument lets say it is, it is definitely a milder form. Firstly, there is a "?" in the thread title. If one makes an accusation they do not do it as a question! Not to mention it ends with a question. Also "ansi" never stated anything that was obviously incorrect.

OPF,

Re your reference. "seeks to demolish" is about a concerted effort. At the very most, that article seeks to demolish some and modify others. It is a FACT that the concept of 5-pillars is non-existent in al quran, thus an article discussing this WITH evidence is acceptable.

SatanHatesMe

Everyone on this site, please read this. I considered it very important.

LOL!!!
Wakas how did you get to be moderator of this site? Your judgement is very bias. Look at your analysis

Re your reference. I can see why you would regard it as "slander", I do not, but for sake of argument lets say it is, it is definitely a milder form. Firstly, there is a "?" in the thread title. If one makes an accusation they do not do it as a question! Not to mention it ends with a question. Also "ansi" never stated anything that was obviously incorrect.

Ansi literally called submitters (which is just english for muslims) pretenders, which by the way DIRECTLY applies to 3358, but Wakas doesn't think it slander. Then he said for argument sake, it a mild form of slander. Milder form of slander?!? I thought OPF said slander is slander is slander. But what, is the accusation of slanding biasly being apply to me because at criticize Progressve Mulsim? Hmm. YOu decide.
Samia called the Code 19, the Koran basically because it is specifically mention in 7430, a "bad thing not good for kids." Plus she didn't provide evidence for a gross speech (even if it was in jest 8330). But Wakas and Lobster think is all in good humor. It seem Samia was just joking about the Koran and it sign (8330-32). And Wakas and others simply thought she was Chris Rock doing stand-up comedy. To them it was hilarious. Yet my criticism about PM was never about the Koran, nor its signs. Nor can it be even consider about Muslim or believer since only GOD can make such judgement (28, 213, 730). But yet I speak slander. Hmmm.
Oh. And the best part. According to Wakas (yet he presented no evidence of this IN THE KORAN), when you add a question mark to a accusation is not "really" slander. It can possible be only "a milld form of slander." Let examine that theory to see if it works. Is Wakas a arrogant jerk who think he is guided and yet is misguided?. If I get ban for that statement, clearly Wakas is not applying his own rules.

Re your reference. "seeks to demolish" is about a concerted effort. At the very most, that article seeks to demolish some and modify others. It is a FACT that the concept of 5-pillars is non-existent in al quran, thus an article discussing this WITH evidence is acceptable.

Althought I said PM have no consensus, which is proven by the fact that they have no agreement of 90% of their issue, I am committing slander. But according to the KORAN, verse 3358 clearly said slander is saying something about believers that is not warranted or justified. My statement is not only true, BUT VERY justify. Yet I speak slander. Evidence is the great confusion and devision of major issue with PM including salat, zakat, hajj, or even if the Koran is a literal book. Dont believe me? Simply scroll through most of the topics posted on this forum and on free-minds.org main site.
Althought I said PM have no answers which is proven by the great devision and no consensus. Plus is also proven by the articles posted in free-minds which contains great diversity and no conclusive proof about salat, zakat, and hajj to garnered agreement on a issue. Yet I speak slander. But according to the QURAN, verse 3358 clearly said slander is saying something about believers that is not warranted or justified. My statement is not even about believers, but about the Progressive Mulsim MOVEMENT or organization and no individuals. I stated this clearly in many of posting. I also said I can never directly label anyone on this site evil, or with-bad intentions since I didn't know them. Yet I still speak slander according to OPF and Wakas. Hmmm.
Althought I said PM his indirectly demolishing Islam as we know it, which is proven by the many articles PM members posted on free-minds.org where the objective is simply to demolish any concept or islamic element they deem "traditional" (even if that traditional view doesn't contradict the QURAN). Even OPF linked one those articles. Although this very site proves that my statement is not false nor unjustified, Zenje says I speak slander. But according to the QURAN, verse 3358 clearly said slander is saying something about believers that is not warranted or justified. My statement is not even about believers but a movement or organization. Never once did I called wakas, zenje, OPF, or Red Lobster directly as demolish Islam. Nor was my statement false.
And although I never accused Zenje, Wakas, OPF, Lobster, or anyone on this site for speaking slander they continue to accused me of slander simply because i criticize PM. THIS IS PORVEN but Wakas, a moderator, bias judgement to allow Samia and Ansi (as just two example) to say gross things about believer/submitters and the KORAN! Even if it is in jest, it is still considered WRONG ACCORDING TO THE KORAN! (8331, 965).

Also, to accused another believer (me) of slander without just reason is slander within it self (335. Not that I am calling anyone who accused me of slander as committing slander themselves (I fear and know better than that). Just a kind reminder.

phoenix1

wow.

so this is all a joke, right? just like what Samia said?

hahahaha. real funny.

see, what Samia said was a joke. It's obvious to everyone, including you.
If you want to be taken seriously, please stop comparing what you say to what Samia said.

Seriously, though, what don't you understand about "evidence?" Is the the "evi" part of the "dence?"

Please do this for me.

Give me 1 example (preferably more) of

the secret agenda that PM is promoting
that PM is confusing things and avoiding issues
that you have been threatened with a ban simply because of your criticism

For the past 2 weeks, several members have told you that unless you back up your criticism with examples.

Here's some honest advice,
Criticism isn't going to do anything. Let's assume that we are stupid and ignorant and will ban you if you keep criticizing us. So, the best option for you is to stop the criticism, and start discussing these issues. Open up a thread for salat, hajj, whatever you want to debate, and prove everyone wrong. If your understanding makes sense, everyone'll admit they were wrong (except the people who already agree with you) and they'll accept your view.
You can't force people to see the truth. You can only show them the door and it's them who have to walk through it. Stop telling us that we're knocking on the wrong door, and show us the right one.

and please read others' posts. Please.
I think everyone KNOWS that there is no consensus. We don't need someone to tell us the obvious.
Whether or not we should have a consensus is another issue and we can debate that.

SatanHatesMe

Seriously, though, what don't you understand about "evidence?" Is the the "evi" part of the "dence?"

im confuse. can you explain it again. please explain the evi part. then the dence part.

SatanHatesMe

so this is all a joke, right? just like what Samia said?

My statements above wasn't a joke either. Just for clarification Red Lobster.

Wakas

SHM,

I have noticed in your posts you are actually referencing things now, which is an improvement. Well done.

Re

ansi said "submitters or pretenders?" and in the post, listed his/her evidence. This is significantly different from what you did. And of course there is different degrees of severity in slander. For example if I were t say "Mr X is poor at soccer" this is less severe than "Mr X killed a child".

re
2) Joking about code 19 is nothing like joking about al quran. First, you have to prove code19 is clear and explicit in al quran. I said her comment was "unserious" not hilarious or funny. This is a falsity on your part. Why do you insist on building strawmen?

Re
3) In the manner that you said it, it was not really a question, more of a statement. It is to do with sincerity, ansi clearly demonstrated this when asking a question and listing his/her evidence.

Re
4) I quoted your slanderous comments. Did I quote your "PM have no consensus" statement and say it was slander? No. SHM, please read rather than spouting unevidenced opinion. Again, why do you insist on building strawmen? Is it because you have no argument and have become blinded by emotion?

Re
5) See (4) above.

Re
6) You later backtracked and modified your comment to "indirectly". This is not what you said at first.

Re
7) That is because you did make slanderous comments. Mods/admin agreed and that is why you were banned for 1 week. I do not advise continuing in such a manner.

Again, for reference, here is a link to the forum rules, please read and follow them
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8177.0

Even though I have referred you to the forum rules several times, it seems you still do not get them. Will I have to reference them 19 times before you accept them?

SatanHatesMe

Even though I have referred you to the forum rules several times, it seems you still do not get them. Will I have to reference them 19 times before you accept them?

No. No need to say it 19 times (which that statement can be view as an attack on someone beliefs). Just apply the rules fairly and without bias. This concept of apply rules fairly seem impossible for you to grasp. All the "evidence" I quoted somehow couldnt be to sufficient enough. Hmmm. Yet is it strange. The links and quotes I made referenced to never got accused on slander and not obeying the rules. But then again, they didnt really critisie PM did they? hmmm.

But you are the moderator who is free to interpret the forum rules as you please, even if it is subjectively done to discriminate people who speak against PM. Wait let me restate that according to your rules.....But you are the moderator who is free to interpret the forum rules as you please, even if it is subjectively done to discriminate people who speak against PM?

unknownuser

A strawman is a false preconception of the other side

Me Not backing up your accusations with evidence is slander
SHM How dare I criticize PM!

Wakas

SHM,

You disappoint me. A sincere person would have owned up to the mistakes I pointed out in my previous post and retracted them and apologised. You, on the other hand, persist in your way. Then you top it off by adding a "?" on the end of a statement even though it wasn't even a question, proving once again you understand very little of what we have discussed.

SatanHatesMe

SHM,

You disappoint me. A sincere person would have owned up to the mistakes I pointed out in my previous post and retracted them and apologised. You, on the other hand, persist in your way. Then you top it off by adding a "?" on the end of a statement even though it wasn't even a question, proving once again you understand very little of what we have discussed.

OK. You got me Wakas. Surely I am not sincere. You got me