getting naked!!!!
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peace,
I wanted to get some feedback about getting naked for doctor appointments! Like going to the Ob/Gyn for a pap smear or what not! I recall reading that exposing ones' private parts should only be to their spouses and/or dependants depending on the age and permission etc
but what about a ob/gyn? they are not your spouse nor dependant?
does anyone have another verse that may shed some light on this subject?
If so please post it up for all to see!
motionless wisdom
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God gave us doctors, male and female. You can choose to see a female doctor in any field, if you feel strongly about it. Or do you think seeing a female doctor is questionable too?
God wants us to take care of our bodies so I think health maintenance is a good thing.
dotty
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"Whatever houses I may visit, I will come for the benefit of the sick, remaining free of all intentional injustice, of all mischief and in particular of sexual relations with both female and male persons, be they free or slaves."
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath#The_Hippocratic_Oath
If set doctor has taken the Hippocratic Oath, I dont think you need to worry.
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Female doctors can be gay, but they should be objective and restrained.
Good point and so true especially these days. To see a Doctor you do when you absolutely need it and then it's Ok to show your body. The Doctor I guess is more or less immune to private body parts and His/Her thoughts is to heal you from your pain etc.
And if the Doctor treat you wrong you can always complain about it.
Maria
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does anyone have another verse that may shed some light on this subject?
Peace,
There is no need of a verse like that, use your logic of what is wrong and right. If Quran was to be spoken about every little single issue that could arise in a humans life then the Quran would be so thick that you would never been able to read through it.
Maria
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Peace,
There is no need of a verse like that, use your logic of what is wrong and right. If Quran was to be spoken about every little single issue that could arise in a humans life then the Quran would be so thick that you would never been able to read through it.
Maria
Right... God leaves things out of the Quran for a reason... in those cases we should use our brains.
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Right... God leaves things out of the Quran for a reason... in those cases we should use our brains.
I agree. And in principle, life has priority over religion. If you can't fast for health reasons, God gives you permission not to fast. If someone is trying to kill you, God gives you excepted permission to kill them. So the priniciple is there, your life has priority over your religious commandments, and you will be judged by your intentions.
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Salam Samia, all,
Would "illa maa zahara minhaa"/"except what is apparent/visible/obvious from it" in 2431 cover the situation of a believing woman exposing herself to a male/female doctor out of necessity ?
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Salam Samia, all,
Would "illa maa zahara minhaa"/"except what is apparent/visible/obvious from it" in 2431 cover the situation of a believing woman exposing herself to a male/female doctor out of necessity ?
Salaam Tanweer
I understand "zeenatuhunna" as psrts of the body specific to women, and hair, accordingly, not included. So, if we consider that "private parts" are specific to women ;D .....then we can have this understanding.
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Salaam Samia,
The parts of the body specific to females would be breasts, the female genitalia, cervix, uterus, and ovaries. So according to your definition of zeenatuhunna, all those parts would be included in it.
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Salaam Samia,
The parts of the body specific to females would be breasts, the female genitalia, cervix, uterus, and ovaries. So according to your definition of zeenatuhunna, all those parts would be included in it.
Men don't have genitalias?
How about just giving them a common name, the one given by the qu'aan "faraj"? No differentatiation between a male and a female faraj.
Cervix, uterus and ovaries are already concealed. -
Salaam Samia,
That is why I said "female genitalia". I did not want to go into anatomical details, but "male genitalia" are different from "female genitalia". So then your definition of "zeenatuhunna" would be restricted to breasts and female genitalia ?
Males have breasts too, anatomically speaking.
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Salaam Samia,
That is why I said "female genitalia". I did not want to go into anatomical details, but "male genitalia" are different from "female genitalia". So then your definition of "zeenatuhunna" would be restricted to breasts and female genitalia ?
Males have breasts too, anatomically speaking.
What I understand is that some parts are not required to be covered, those are the limbs and head (for ablution). The rest is to be covered, but some will still show because of thier size like the breasts and the buttocks.
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Salaam Samia,
What I understand is that some parts are not required to be covered, those are the limbs and head (for ablution). The rest is to be covered, but some will still show because of thier size like the breasts and the buttocks.
Agreed with the above.
My question was that can "illa maa zahara minhaa" be interpreted as "what is apparent/visible/obvious from it by necessity" (the limbs and head can be exposed because of "necessity" of ablution), and thus also cover the doctor situations, because that becomes a necessity ?
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Salaam Tanweer
"and not to show their (zeenatahunna) except what is apparent of it".
What is "revealed" to the doctor is not "apparent"; it is revealed.
Of course there is necessity, and that's prevention/treatment -----> life saving. Under this, you can almost do anything except harming others. The qur'aan takes life saving as redundant, no need to mention it everytime there is a command. The principle of life saving is mentioned in a case or two, from where we deduce that someone's life has the priority over anything except someone else's life.
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As-Salaamu Alaikum MW and forum,
peace,
I wanted to get some feedback about getting naked for doctor appointments! Like going to the Ob/Gyn for a pap smear or what not! I recall reading that exposing ones' private parts should only be to their spouses and/or dependants depending on the age and permission etc
but what about a ob/gyn? they are not your spouse nor dependant?
does anyone have another verse that may shed some light on this subject?
If so please post it up for all to see!
motionless wisdom
This is from Surah 24 "An-Noor" (The Light)
{30}
Transliteration Qul lilmu/mineena yaghuddoo min absarihum wayahfathoo furoojahum thalika azka lahum inna Allaha khabeerun bima yasnaAAoona
Literal Say to the believers (to) lower/humble from their eye sights , and they protect/safe keep from their genital parts between their legs, that is more pure/correct for them, that God (is) expert/experienced with what they make/do .
Free-Minds Tell the believing men to lower their gaze and keep covered their private parts, for that is purer for them. God is fully aware of what you do.{31}
Transliteration Waqul lilmu/minati yaghdudna min absarihinna wayahfathna furoojahunna wala yubdeena zeenatahunna illa ma thahara minha walyadribna bikhumurihinna AAala juyoobihinna wala yubdeena zeenatahunna illa libuAAoolatihinna aw aba-ihinna aw aba-i buAAoolatihinna aw abna-ihinna aw abna-i buAAoolatihinna aw ikhwanihinna aw banee ikhwanihinna aw banee akhawatihinna aw nisa-ihinna aw ma malakat aymanuhunna awi alttabiAAeena ghayri olee al-irbati mina alrrijali awi alttifli allatheena lam yathharoo AAala AAawrati alnnisa-i wala yadribna bi-arjulihinna liyuAAlama ma yukhfeena min zeenatihinna watooboo ila Allahi jameeAAan ayyuha almu/minoona laAAallakum tuflihoona
Literal And say to the believers they (F) lower/humble from their eye sights, and they (F) protect/safe keep from their genital parts between their legs, and they do not show their decoration/beauty except what appeared/is visible from it, and they hold in place/sew (E) with their head covers/covers on their collar opening in clothes/chests , and they do not show their decoration/beauty except to their husbands, or their fathers, or their husband's fathers (fathers in-law), or their sons, or their husband's sons (step- sons), or their brothers, or their brother's sons (nephews), or their sisters' sons (nephews), or their women, or what their right (hands) owned/possessed (i.e. care-giers under contract), or the followers/servants (those) not (owners) of need/desire/intelligence and resourcefulness (without a sexual drive) from the men or the child/children (the very old or very young), those who did not see and know of on the women's shameful genital parts , and they (F) do not beat/strike with their (F) feet to be known what they (F) hide from their decoration/beauty , and repent to God all together , oh you the believers, maybe/perhaps you succeed/win.
Free-Minds And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and keep covered their private parts, and that they should not show-off their beauty except what is apparent, and let them cast their shawls over their cleavage. And let them not show-off their beauty except to their husbands, or their fathers, or fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or the sons of their brothers, or the sons of their sisters, or their children that come after them, or those who are still their dependants, or the male servants who are without need, or the child who has not yet understood the composition of women. And let them not strike with their feet in a manner that reveals what they are keeping hidden of their beauty. And repent to God, all of you believers, that you may succeed.These ayaat clearly tell "those who have trusting faith in Allah" that their private parts are not to be exposed (highlighted and bolded in red). The instruction to "those who have trusting faith in Allah and are female" are clearly more detailed in that they reinforce and further define the parameters that Allah sets up for those who will hear and obey(highlighted and bolded in orange, brown and navy). This is not Allah oppressing women, but Allah has clearly made a distinction here in His instructions and commands for women instead of men here. While only men's "private parts" or "genitals" are instructed to be hidden, women are also instructed to hide their "private parts/genitals", "their beauty except what must be apparent" and to "spread/draw near with their khimar over/upon their cleavage"; except to those mentioned which include "their women". "Their women" will obviously include "their female servant, helpers, doctors, etc.", as these are necessary to help with the process of giving birth, etc. Although it is possible for a woman to give birth without help from others, the possible complications make it more prudent to have help. Throughout time this has primarily been done by what is commonly known as a "midwife".
Women are equally intelligent as men, so there is no need for a man to go and study to be an obgyn. Why would a man chose this field in his early studies over all the other fields of medicine available to study? He must be in love or fascinated with the female "genitals" in order to choose such a profession. I call that perverted and don't really care what degree or label a university gives him for his accomplishment of study. Let men study the male private areas and functions, and women study theirs. General areas such as heart, lungs, kidney, etc. can be study by whomever has an interest in that field. I think these ayaat support that idea and train of thought.
With that said, I also believe that in life threatening situations, just as most if not all other restrictions, this becomes a non issue. If someone is in an accident or needs some type of specialize or emergency surgery, the best doctor (male or female) that can save your life is the one that would be permissable; because saving of life overrides these other concerns for modesty. But getting a pap smear, checking the breasts for cancer, or giving birth for women are not life threatening procedures in themselves; unless complications arise of course. But initially they are not, so the choice should be to see someone that is permissilbe for the woman, i.e. "or their women". I think the same restrictions would apply to men as well. As far as those of the same sex that are doctors but homosexuals, that points to my reason for not expecting that some degree will make you moral according to Allah's standards. They should be avoided if it is known or suspected that they are such. If you dont know that they are homosexual, the sin would be on them, not you. Just as the sin is on a rapist, not the victim.
Hope this helps, insha Allah.
As-Salaamu Alaikum, peace
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peace
I appreciate imam's response since he did not tell me his opinion without evidence clearly organized, easily verifiable, and directed at me not a side conversation. yes brother this is logical and rational.
i appreciate you taking the time in responding.
issue is cleared up for me!
the quran is enough for me!
motionless wisdom -
Salaam IQO, Samia,
Thanks for the posts. What you said makes sense.
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Salaam Tanweer
I understand "zeenatuhunna" as psrts of the body specific to women, and hair, accordingly, not included. So, if we consider that "private parts" are specific to women ;D .....then we can have this understanding.
Selam Samia
If that is the case, can women show their special parts of body to her male servants who are needless? For example can women show their breasts to male servants who are needless or to ?ma malakat ayman? or to their brothers etc?Because Allah says ?illa? means women can reveal to them.Today how many women(also men) show their special parts of body to whom are listed in the verse except their husband or say doctors(lets say male servants who are needless but you can also take many men into these category)? I am not good at Arabic but i think there is a misconception here. Maybe ?zeenatuhunna? can be bosom of their clothing which can make parts of women?s breasts seen. Im not sure and Allah knows best.
Can anyone explain it please? Hows "zeenatuhunna" used in other verses?