Harun Yahya?
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Harun Yahya is famous for many Islamic works.
It is rather confusing where he stands with Hadith. He has certain productions where he seems to be totally against Hadiths and traditions. For example, in the following link, he talks about how hearsay and tradition must not be used to intepret the Qur'an (time 1355)
http//www.sparklywater.com/files/abooks/unwise.ram
Or this presentation where he goes against 'traditional religion' completely
http//www.sparklywater.com/files/abooks/truth.ram
Moreover most of his works seem to revolve around the Qur'an. I get the feeling he uses Hadith to simply keep Hadith following Muslims as his audience.
Also, what he says about mehdi is very suspicious!
His website is this www.harunyahya.com
So what do you guys think of him?
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Personally, I've been at odds with him and his followers for different views on creation/evolution.
I consider the guy an influential nuisance.
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Harun Yahya is famous for many Islamic works.
It is rather confusing where he stands with Hadith. He has certain productions where he seems to be totally against Hadiths and traditions. For example, in the following link, he talks about how hearsay and tradition must not be used to intepret the Qur'an (time 1355)
http//www.sparklywater.com/files/abooks/unwise.ram
Or this presentation where he goes against 'traditional religion' completely
http//www.sparklywater.com/files/abooks/truth.ram
Moreover most of his works seem to revolve around the Qur'an. I get the feeling he uses Hadith to simply keep Hadith following Muslims as his audience.
Also, what he says about mehdi is very suspicious!
His website is this www.harunyahya.com
So what do you guys think of him?
I love him. He is Turkish and they have a different interpretation of Islam. They accept hadiths that are not problematic.
July 23, 2006
Turkey Sexist Proverbs And Muslim Misogyny To Be Scrapped
On July 13, the Times carried an article by Suna Erdem which reported that in Turkey, a whole class of sexist proverbs in Turkey were to be deleted from dictionaries, under the approval of the Turkish Language Institute.But an article in today's Hamilton Spectator by Turkish journalist Mustafa Akyol, and originally printed in the Washington Post suggests that not only sexist proverbs, but also sexist Hadiths are going to be outlawed, with full approval of the Islamist Justice and Development Party (AKP) of Recep Tayyip Erdogan.
Abandoning sexist traditional proverbs from dictionaries is one thing, but it is an extremely bold and welcome move for a Muslim country to abrogate the Hadiths, the traditional accounts of Mohammed's life. Firstly, let us look at some examples of the misogynistic proverbs.
A woman is the devil version of a man
Woman is the plaything of the Devil
No good comes of corn sown later than August just as no good comes of a woman who rises later than her husband
A man preserves a woman like animal skin preserves cheese
Even if a woman's candlestick were gold, it is the man for whom you should light a candleThese are actual lines from Hadiths, according to Mustafa Akyol, though their exact provenance is not cited
Your prayer will be invalid if a donkey, black dog or a woman passes in front of you.
If a husband's body is covered with pus and his wife licks it clean, she still wouldn't have paid her dues.
If a woman doesn't satisfy her husband's desires, she should choose herself a place in hell.
The best of women are those who are like sheep
Women are imperfect in intellect and religionThe plan to revise the texts of Hadiths is being put forward by the Diyanet, the highest Islamic authority in Turkey, which controls 76,000 mosques in the country and beyond. Ali Bardakoglu is the president of the Diyanet. He is a liberal theologian who was appointed by the AKP three years ago.
Bardakoglu claims that the new collection of misogyny-free Hadiths will be completed by 2008. He also said that imams would be sent to the (mainly Kurdish) regions of the country's southeast, to preach against honor killings.
There are inconsistencies and contradictions in Hadiths, and there has always been a debate in Islamic jurisprudence between the importance of applying Hadiths based upon reason, and those based upon the chains of transmission by individuals (isnad). Mustafa Akyol states that transmission won the battle over reason.
The Diyanet willl have a tough job both editing the numerous Hadiths which exist (see below) and then to persuade the wider public that their results remain authentic. For many Turkish Muslims, the exactitudes of faith are left to imams and religious bodies. I have spoken with Turks who talk dreamily of seeing a modernisation and reformation of their traditional faith.
This move may be a first positive step torwards modernising and updating Islam, and if it succeeds in gaining approval, it may inspire other Muslims to follow suit.
The Hadiths are the source of 90% of Sharia law. There are still arguments as to which Hadiths are authentic. Bukhari (810 to 870 AD) collected 300,000 Hadiths over a period of 16 years, but only confirmed 2,062 of these to be authentic ("sahih". Similarly his student Muslim collected a similar number and deemed just over 2,000 to be authentic.
For Sunni Muslims, Bukhari is regarded as the most reliable author of Hadiths. Tabari (d. 923) was called the "Livy of the Arabians" by the historian Gibbon and his Hadiths are extensive. The earliest biographers of Mohammed were Zohri, who died in 741, aged 72 and Orwa, a close relative of Aisha, Mohammed's last wife. Orwa died in 712.
Zohri's works have not survived but are quoted in the Hadiths of Ibn Isshaq (d. 76 and these were used by Ibn Hisham (died 82. Waquidi of Medina (d. 822) wrote a biography of Mohammed, and this survives through the Hadiths of his secretary Katib. Abu Dawud (817 to 88 gathered 50,000 ahadith (sayings) of Mohammed, and included 4,800 in his collection, the Sunan Abu Dawud.
The earliest collection of Hadiths which survive in the anthology in which they were assembled are those of Malik bin Anas bin Malik bin Abu Amir Al-Asbahi (Malik for short) who was born in 711 and died in 808. His Muwatta (well-trodden path) contains a few thousand hadith. A late contributor to Hadith collection is the jurist Imam an-Nawawi, who lived in the 13th century who collected 42 Hadiths. His commentary on Sahih Muslim forms the basis of much traditional Islamic law.
The Hadith sources which have been most employed in the formulation of Islamic jurisprudence (fiqh) are those of Bukhari, Muslim, Ibn Majah (d. 886), Abu Dawud, Al Tirmidhi (d, 892) and al Nasa'i (d. 915).
Traditionally, the jurist (mujtahid) comes to a decision on what is legally appropriate by a process called ijtihad, whereby the jurist exerts himself by applying his own knowledge to the sources of law (usul) to arrive at a result.
There have been various schools of Islamic jurisprudence, many of which have been superceded by others, following the dictum that requirements of law must change with the requirements of the time (Al-hukm-u yadullu ma'a illatihi wujudan wa adaman or "The law is formulated in accordance with circumstances".
The most important current schools of law are Shia, Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi'i, with other locally followed minor
http//www.westernresistance.com/blog/archives/002633.html
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Bigmo, that article was from Mustafa Akyol, not Harun Yahya. Akyol broke up with that group several years ago IIRC.
Btw, I consider HY more a 'they' than a 'he'.
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Yes, Harun Yahya is more of an institution than a single person, with perhaps Adnan Oktar as the head person. Though I will refer to the organisation as 'he' as it is names after a single person.
His works are unique and no other Islamic organisation have matched them.
This is mostly due to the fact he comes out of the traditional model, for example, extensive use of background music in his prodiction...as well as the money they put into their poductions resulting in highly professional finish.
It looks like he does not struictly follow the Qur'an with non-contradictory Hadiths at times, because of his belief of the mahdi which is entirely Hadith driven.
Harun Yahya's vews on mehdi is very suspicious. If you read the following interview with Harun Yahya on his views on Mahdi, you wont be mistaken to think that he thinks he is the mahdi! Note, he believes he is a descendent of the Prophet Muhammad according to sources on his site.
http//www.harunyahya.com/new_releases/news/interview.php
Bigmo, the article is not really about Harun Yahya. But it was a good read thought, thanks.
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"They" write good books, very professional and clean-cut, but I suspect it's style over substance.
His character is questionable, I think he was involved in a sex-crime bust by the Turkish police. I can't find the original news article.
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"They" write good books, very professional and clean-cut, but I suspect it's style over substance.
His character is questionable, I think he was involved in a sex-crime bust by the Turkish police. I can't find the original news article.
We shall not uphold such unverified information (slander).
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We shall not uphold such unverified information (slander).
Correct. Which is why I'm looking for the article.
Oh, here's one http//www.mukto-mona.com/debunk/harun_yahya/index.htm
It protrays him as a Dajal.
Still, I wouldn't take anybody's word for it - they could be, or rather, most likely, are slandering him, but it really makes me watch out.
I think this person is really controversial in Turkey. Here's an article that paints him as a Jesus.
http//www.islamherald.com/asp/interesting_articles/who_is_harun_yahya.asp
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This move may be a first positive step torwards modernising and updating Islam, and if it succeeds in gaining approval, it may inspire other Muslims to follow suit.
I'm not for that.
i'm for returning to the Quran.
Why saying updating islam and modernising it? Do they want the muslims to change the Quran to be more "modern"? To make allow the stuff that have became normal today?
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Correct. Which is why I'm looking for the article.
Oh, here's one http//www.mukto-mona.com/debunk/harun_yahya/index.htm
It protrays him as a Dajal.
Still, I wouldn't take anybody's word for it - they could be, or rather, most likely, are slandering him, but it really makes me watch out.
I think this person is really controversial in Turkey. Here's an article that paints him as a Jesus.
http//www.islamherald.com/asp/interesting_articles/who_is_harun_yahya.asp
Like you say, I would not buy information so easily. Slanders are spread against people who do good pretty easily - this is according to the Qur'an. I do not dismiss the posibility of it albeit very small, but we must not uphold such accusations when the accused shows signs of a real believer (as HY does through his works).
This is based on the following Verse of the Qur'an
"When you heard , why did believing men and believing women not think well of their own people and declare, 'This is obviously a lie?'"
Which comes after a believing women was falsely acused of indecency . The above Verse tells us that we should think well of believers in the face of accusations.
We must not spread about these accusation/s made against believers (those who display attributes of believers), this is indicated by 2415.
peace.
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Peace to all,
I actually like reading from his sight, I have learned alot and felt that his articles have explained many things that I was questioning at the time, I dont agree with everything of course but lets give the guy a little credit for trying,, and lets not talk bad about him.
Kurt
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I agree with you. "Modernising" Islam sounds to me like a make up for the "others", not for muslims..
There is only Gamal Banna who believes in the historicity of the Quran. He must be feeling lonely. Why is it so hard for Muslims? What is it about history that we are so unacceptable of?
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There is only Gamal Banna who believes in the historicity of the Quran. He must be feeling lonely. Why is it so hard for Muslims? What is it about history that we are so unacceptable of?
How is al-Banna "the only one who believes in the historicity of the qur'aan"? How is this related to my quote?
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How is al-Banna "the only one who believes in the historicity of the qur'aan"? How is this related to my quote?
There is a tendency by most muslims to believe that looking at the Quran with appreciation of the 7th century community it was initially revealed to as nothing but a modernization attempt. And this modernization attempt is done for the sole purpose of "adapting" to Western norms. Indeed there is nothing called Western norms. This is 21st century norms. And Muslims do not live in the 7th century even though they think they should. Its a rejection of the historicity of Quranic legalism but ist only possible in theory and concept. the reality is something else, since we can not live in a vacuum. So Muslims are always saying one thing but doing something else. When people look at the Taliban, they do not see anything Islamic but what they see is medieval. Even non Muslim societies of the past practiced a similar legal system. This is becauise the Quran laid out a communal legal framework for the propet's community in Medina with 7th century norms and standards.
I have rarely seen that explicitly talked about except by Gamal Banna and a few others. Even Subhi Mansour does not see it that way. He still sees Islam as a legal framework.
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Bigmo,
So are you suggesting Taliban were following the Qur'an? The way you said it, it seems like you believe they were following the Qur'an.
They were not following the Qur'an, but traditions that are not supported by the Qur'an.
Yes they were following hadiths also, but if the Taliban were to cut the hand of a thief, people would see this as medieval since medieval societies, Muslims or non Muslims, used to practice limb cutting as punishments. What I am trying to say, is that the legal framework in the Quran was structured in conformity with the accepted legal and penal norms and standards of the 7th century. These norms and penal systems were similar to how many 7th century societies including pagan Arabia ran their communities. So much so that of all the disapproval the pagans had about the prophet, they did not mind those legal and penal systems as they saw it as normal and similar to their communal structure. However that God is one and resurrection and faith in satan and so on was considered a heresy and they fought the prophet over it.
Do you see my point? Most of the objections the pagan had mentioned in the Quran was based on theology and Islamic rituals like halal meat and so on which they saw as an innovation and outside their cultural norms. the penal system was in conformity with theirs for the most part except women and slaves were given better status then they were used to under tribal law.
Today most societies would not have a problem with the theology or rituals of the Quran but they find the legal and penal system as something that was for societies of the past. The legal and penal system in Europe in the past had crucifictions, stoning, limb cutting, burning, beheading and flogging.
This is what I meant that Muslims have yet to embrace the historicity of the Quran and identify or rather seperate the religous issues like morals, ethics, rituals and theology from the legal and penal issues which must be understood in its historic context.