My Dream of Truth
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sorry.
"Babbling?" If you consider what I say nonsense then please offer your alternative. I'm all ears. Well, eyes, actually.
Apologies, I didn't mean to say babbling, just wanted to say, 'you go on and on about..'You can say that god shows us dreams...
My question is, do you think God can contact you through a dream?Have you ever had an epiphany? (not while dreaming)
Yes, of course. Why do you ask?
Does God play a part in it at all?My only problem with what you said earlier was this; "just one thing...god doesn't speak to us through dreams." The way you portrayed it, is this is what it is. Yet I showed it otherwise through quran. And the only reason I had a problem with that is, a new member came in and shared her inner thoughts, and you negatively said something with no proof from quran. We still remember what this site is about, right? And yes, why not say IMO, especially when (a)it's contrary to what quran says, and (b) it's directed to someone relatively new who doesn't know that...
Believe me, I'm not that sure of what I'm saying.... -
but I'm sure enough to be able to say it (and mean it).Or am I just giving you a hard time? eat
Peace. peace
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Apologies, I didn't mean to say babbling, just wanted to say, 'you go on and on about..'
apology accepted. I will keep on going on about it, though.
My question is, do you think God can contact you through a dream?
We can't talk about what god can do or can't do.
Does god contact us through dreams? In the way Babythespy meant it, no.Does God play a part in it at all?
In what sense?
God plays a part through his natural laws. God doesn't influence our thinking, in our dreams or in real life.The thing is, the quran says "god guides...god punishes...god puts a seal on people's hearts" etc, but in my understanding, god doesn't directly do any of this. God doesn't guide you for no reason, god doesn't punish you for no reason, and he doesn't pick random people and puts a veil in front them
so they can't see the truth.
The quran would say that god brought me to this site and to this forum, which is another way of saying that me being here is the result of the choices I made. Cause and effect.
God interacts with us through his creation (this world), and dreams are a part of that.Do you understand what I'm trying to say, now?
And yes, why not say IMO, especially when (a)it's contrary to what quran says, and (b) it's directed to someone relatively new who doesn't know that...
Yeah I do try to do that with noobs (jk), making clear that it's my opinion, that is.
And I don't think what I said was in contradiction with the quran.
Although I'm really not too sure about these verses below (and even a few of the verses preceding them about how to split booty).
I think what they could mean is that if our belief in ourselves is strong enough, a large army will seem small to us, which would, IMO, better fit with some of the other things the quran says that god does.843 Lo! God showed them to thee in a dream as few for, had He shown them to you as many, you would surely have lost heart, and would surely have disagreed with one another about what to do. But God saved verily, He has full knowledge of what is the hearts .
844 And so, when you met in battle, He made them appear as few in your eyes -just as He made you appear as of little account in their eyes - so that God might accomplish a thing to be done for all things go back to God . -
We can't talk about what god can do or can't do.
and then you said
Does god contact us through dreams? In the way Babythespy meant it, no.In what sense?
God plays a part through his natural laws. God doesn't influence our thinking, in our dreams or in real life.hmm~ see the contradiction?
by the way, lobster, i think i understand what you're trying to say, though. Correct me if i'm wrong peace
You're saying that God's decisions reach us in many ways.. God punishs and rewards us through His creations, if He so wills it.
So you're here because of cause and effect, under God's decision/creation of this law. Hence it all goes back to God, isn't it?Is has been God all the while that caused and restrained. To God is our return group
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Peace Lobster,
Ever thought about going into sales? I think you'd be good at it. I did it for a number of years, infact sometimes I think I still do it without realising it. Or should I say politics? I like how you go around a question just to land where you wanted to be in the first place. If I didn't know better, I'd probably be bedazzled, while the question was never truly answered.
Anyways, I'm glad someone else is catching the contradictions, if you go back to my questions when I asked you what are you saying?... that's one of them. You said 2 opposite things and congratulated yourself after... I think you even believed yourself.
Does god contact us through dreams? In the way Babythespy meant it, no.
I take it to mean, in some other way, the answer is yes? ) In the way Babythespy meant it?... How do YOU know? I'll do what you do, and take the opportunity to answer that one for you... you don't. And no one else does, except Babythesy... and God. yesGod can, and does communicate to us through dreams, among many other ways. You can try and twist and turn it about in any you like, but that's the way it is. Now if you would like to show me a verse that contradicts this, please, by all means, feel free to do so. I will highly appreciate it and concede.
Or even better, if you can give quranic proof on this statement of yours...
god doesn't speak to us through dreams
It will all nicely be settled. Forgive me if I'm not coming across clearly enough, it seems I've been either using wrong words or not expressing myself well. I do hope you understand what I'm asking for though. -
peace zenje,
Ever thought about going into sales? Cheesy I think you'd be good at it. I did it for a number of years, infact sometimes I think I still do it without realising it. Or should I say politics? I like how you go around a question just to land where you wanted to be in the first place. If I didn't know better, I'd probably be bedazzled, while the question was never truly answered.
I know I'm good at it...but honestly that's not what I'm doing. I've said totally crap things on the forum before and admitted me mistakes. I'm being honest. I meant what I said. I still stick to it. I just wanted to explain to you why I think it doesn't contradict the quran.
thank you for the compliment. )Anyways, I'm glad someone else is catching the contradictions, if you go back to my questions when I asked you what are you saying?... that's one of them. You said 2 opposite things and congratulated yourself after... I think you even believed yourself.
nooo I totally did not contradict myself!
I said we can't talk about what god CAN do. Something infinite and infinitely powerful CAN do anything. But god apparently does what god does. We can take a guess at what he does, and we have to. It's just that we can argue all our lives as to what god CAN do and never come to a conclusion.
CAN god create a stone heavy enough that even he cannot lift it?I take it to mean, in some other way, the answer is yes? Roll Eyes In the way Babythespy meant it?... How do YOU know? I'll do what you do, and take the opportunity to answer that one for you... you don't. And no one else does, except Babythesy... and God
Well, just as you interpret my words one way or another, the same way I did Babythespy's words. I have to make something of what she said, and her reply to me didn't contradict that assumption.
In some other way, the answer would actually be yes. To understand what she actually meant, she'll have to explain it herself.God can, and does communicate to us through dreams, among many other ways. You can try and twist and turn it about in any you like, but that's the way it is. Now if you would like to show me a verse that contradicts this, please, by all means, feel free to do so. I will highly appreciate it and concede.
And how do you KNOW that? Is your interpretation of the Quranic verses enough? If it is, I will use evidence from the quran to explain what I was saying in my last post.
Or even better, if you can give quranic proof on this statement of yours...
I think I've explained what I said. I have also explained why I think it does not contradict the quran. If you still believe it does, and choose not to agree with me based on that, that's perfectly fine.
Now, to explain my explanation...
this is how I see it
Doesn't the quran say that god punishes wrong doers? that god guides the truthseekers and puts locks on the disbelievers' hearts? (I'm sorry i'm paraphrasing here, but you know what i'm talking about)
well, God is fair and just, right? he gives everyone a chance, right? Then how is it fair that he actually prevents people from gaining knowledge, and actually misguides them?
The thing is, god isn't doing it directly, god is the SOURCE of the laws of cause and effect that allow this to happen.
So you can say
god is not misguiding anyone, they themselves are. Which, although it may contradict the quran, is perfectly true.anyway, regardless of what the quran says, I do not think god sends us special messages through our dreams, even if god does, we can't believe in them because we can think god is telling us ANYTHING in our dreams...you might not fancy killing dogs, but I bet there's some psycho out there who does, and he's just waiting for that miraculous dream where god tells him to grab a knife and do it.
There is no verse that says "god does not speak to us through our dreams." I BELIEVE that it is implied, when we look at all the verses together, but I have no conclusive proof.
So yes, you can say that what I said contradicts the quran, and maybe it really does, too.
But I hope you understand that that one sentence doesn't really reflect my whole understanding of god and dreams. -
where do u draw the line between "directly" and indirectly" ? <the analogy below explains ur question on guidance>
Let's say a teacher told the students, "if you choose answer B, you get minus 10 marks,"
and the student asked, "why?"
the teacher said, "it is the system"
student asked, "why follow the system?"
the teacher answered "because i made it and because i say so"student choosed answer B, teacher minus 10 marks from him.
Question, WHO minus 10 marks from that student? ;D
another question, what difference does it make if it's directly or indirectly?
(unless you're a politician, then playing with words is important) ;D -
anyway, regardless of what the quran says, I do not think god sends us special messages through our dreams, even if god does, we can't believe in them because we can think god is telling us ANYTHING in our dreams...
Thanks for clarifying. That's all you needed to say O0i'm done... peace
Me too.
PEACE
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so tell me Lobster how BabyThespy had things in her dream that she's never heard/known of? How's that possible?
No idea. But it sure wasn't something supernatural.
There are a lot of things in our subconscious that we don't know about. I bet we know everything that's going to happen to us.Thanks for clarifying. That's all you needed to say O0
Yeah I know, but I didn't wanna say it because it would end the discussion and I wouldn't get a chance to explain why I thought it did not contradict the quran.
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peace Katara,
Let's say a teacher told the students, "if you choose answer B, you get minus 10 marks,"
and the student asked, "why?"
the teacher said, "it is the system"
student asked, "why follow the system?"
the teacher answered "because i made it and because i say so"Yeah, the system is there, and we all know it. I know that I will get hurt if I hit myself with a bat. I know that I will die if I don't eat for a few days.
God doesn't control us like puppets.
God doesn't pick certain people to guide and others to mislead. But that's what the quran says!
I don't think that's what the quran says, and even if it does, I disagree.
We can't take it literally.
If we take "god does..." or "god shows..." literally, then that means if we used to believe in falsehood in the past, god would never have allowed us to find the truth, because god misguides the disbelievers, right?
and we would wait for that dream to come to give us a sign. People wouldn't do anything but wait.
Everything that I just said, God is making me say it.I remember when Jonny K converted to "evolutionism," he said he saw several signs that must've been from God. I disagree with him that god put those signs there. They were just things and events, and it was HE who chose to interpret them that way.
We can control what happens to us, because god does not interfere. -
where it things you knew, d'argento? connection through dreams ?
yes...interesting one; although the main focus/point of the dream was
"Who is Jesus" And thats the question she has had in her mind, and she got her answer. I mean some of the descriptions/verses were straight from the quran and she didn't read it yet ! You are also presuming that BabyThespy is/or would blindly believe in the Quran based on her dream...obviously if the quran had bad logic or bad science, or contradicitons etc... it couldn't be from God.
There are a lot of things in our subconscious that we don't know about. I bet we know everything that's going to happen to us.[/
Your proof for that is? Too much speculation you don't know for sure either/or. Love to leave it to guesswork dontcha?
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peace Dargento,
Your proof for that is? Too much speculation you don't know for sure either/or. Love to leave it to guesswork dontcha?
Ever heard of subliminal messages? course you have. How come people believe them without actually realizing they're believing in it?
A lot of stuff gets in there without us realizing (that's why the quran says we must guard our salat).
If dreams do reveal our subconscious, and there is scientific evidence that suggests that, then they could show us tons of stuff we have no idea about.
And from what I've seen, our mind contains some pretty mysterious stuff.Of course, none of this conclusively explains Babythespy's dreams, but we can't just say that the dream was some supernatural message.
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Peace Lobster,
If dreams do reveal our subconscious, and there is scientific evidence that suggests that,
There are scientific studies suggesting a billion different things.... I am not saying its not true ... i am just saying I take it as a grain of salt. I don't find the scientific community or studies much more trustworthy than the religious community
And from what I've seen, our mind contains some pretty mysterious stuff.
I agree
Of course, none of this conclusively explains Babythespy's dreams,
Yep
but we can't just say that the dream was some supernatural message.
Depends on your definition of what supernatural is....
Do I know what/who God is? No
Does anybody? No
Therefore it's something impossible to speculate on...What if in the end we find out that God was very natural and was among us physically? Who knows.... I certainly won't dismiss that idea