My Dream of Truth
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peace
Dargento,
I agree that scientific observations can be conflicting...we can't trust them completely. But we have to use what we have seen to understand something, as opposed to coming up with explanations that go completely against what we've observed.Depends on your definition of what supernatural is....
Do I know what/who God is? No
Does anybody? No
Therefore it's something impossible to speculate on...What if in the end we find out that God was very natural and was among us physically? Who knows.... I certainly won't dismiss that ideaWell, shouldn't we know what God is?
I think what the quran is describing as "god" is something natural, something that we can observe, and thus believe in and trust.
Unfortunately, what most people do is come up with an idea of god in their head, and then try to force that into reality.
If you don't see it, it probably isn't there.
and if we are to take the quran literally, then god is simply "the ultimate truth."BabyThespy,
I agree that God doesn't pick certain people to guide and others to mislead. But what if God is leading all of us through signs/dreams? Maybe some people just realize a sign/dream for what it could possibly be and others just shrug them off as coincidence, subconscious, forget their dreams, or just simply have not put together that the things that are happening to them are somehow connected. I don't pretend to know what God does or anything like that. I am simply pointing out a possibility.
I think you may have misunderstood me, I'm not saying that dreams are useless and not worthy of our attention, or that they can't help us in anyway. Dreams are important.
This is the way I think god guides
god has written this universe, and it has signs in it, which must be read. Those who read the signs are guided, and those who aren't are left in the dark. And by signs, I don't mean supernatural miracles.
god doesn't interfere with that system. That would be unfair. (or maybe god is the system?)
And I believe dreams are part of that system. They have their own purpose, like everything else.Now, maybe there purpose is to guide by giving us warnings/messages? Perhaps.
But the question is, where are those messages coming from?
I thought the answer was simple, but it's not. I think there are a lot of factors involved, and we can't discuss something this complicated unless we actually agree on the big and basic things like what is god etc.
We should just leave it at that for now.
There was this "dreams*" thread... -
Well, shouldn't we know what God is?
You can THINK you know what God is, my point is you can not be sure.
Unfortunately, what most people do is come up with an idea of god in their head, and then try to force that into reality.
nope, not most people but everyone, including me and you.... again we only think we know, but what we think know is not the same as reality or the actual truth
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BabyThespy,
I think you may have misunderstood me, I'm not saying that dreams are useless and not worthy of our attention, or that they can't help us in anyway. Dreams are important.This is the way I think god guides
god has written this universe, and it has signs in it, which must be read. Those who read the signs are guided, and those who aren't are left in the dark. And by signs, I don't mean supernatural miracles.
god doesn't interfere with that system. That would be unfair. (or maybe god is the system?)
And I believe dreams are part of that system. They have their own purpose, like everything else.I just thought I would point out a contradiction that you have just made from your first post in this thread.
just one thing...god doesn't speak to us through dreams. Our dreams show us what is in our subconscious (or soul). What you saw in your dream came from inside you, not from anywhere else. The dream showed you what you already believed.
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peace
Babythespy,
I just thought I would point out a contradiction that you have just made from your first post in this thread.
How is that a contradiction? confused
Dargento,
nope, not most people but everyone, including me and you.... again we only think we know, but what we think know is not the same as reality or the actual truth
Isn't that being a bit fatalistic? I think we CAN know the actual reality, and I'm sure some people do know the truth.
We CAN know god. -
Isn't that being a bit fatalistic? I think we CAN know the actual reality, and I'm sure some people do know the truth.
We CAN know god.Can we? What is God? No-one can conclusively prove that to anyone. There has to be faith involved...The mind is also capable of manufacturing things or what 'truth' is. Really it's a person's version of the truth (based on experiences, the way they see things etc...). Not everyone has the same amount of knowledge. And how do you decide who's the most knowledgable? And how do you decide which truth to believe in? This becomes subjective
I myself know that God exists, but do I know who/what he is? No. Do i want to more than anything? Absolutely!
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But if you don't know what god is, how do you know it exists?
Why have you decided that there must be faith involved...why can't it be proven?How do you decide who's the most knowledgeable? Well, why would you have to?
If we want to learn from someone else (as opposed to personal experience), then we take what they've told us and we verify it.It's true everyone sees things differently, but there are truths that everyone can see. The sky is blue, right? No one out there will tell you that it's not. Where subjectivity comes in is when you ask "the sky is blue. What does that mean...what does it say?"
But we are not scientists, we aren't proving anything to anyone, we need information for our personal spiritual guidance, for this purpose, subjective does just fine.
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lol this thread is all over the map
But if you don't know what god is, how do you know it exists?
Why have you decided that there must be faith involved...why can't it be proven?Through logic I believe God exists ... Well you tell me how do you prove to an atheist or an agnostic that God exists?
It's true everyone sees things differently, but there are truths that everyone can see. The sky is blue, right? No one out there will tell you that it's not. Where subjectivity comes in is when you ask "the sky is blue. What does that mean...what does it say?"
you mentioned a 'black and white' example, what about things start getting 'grey-er'? For example I believe the Quran is the truth, while a lot of others don't... you really can't be sure who really is right. I have verified the signs myself all of them, while others verification process led them to believe that the quran is not from God. But you are right, there are things we can all see, its rare though... we are arguing all the time....
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How is that a contradiction? confused
B/c you said that god doesn't really speak to us through dreams in your first post, but now you are saying that god guides us through dreams. Yes, dreams are a part of the system in which he guide, but guiding is quite similar to speaking. If god uses dreams to guide us, then he must be speaking to us. Even if it is not specifically to us as individuals.
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Through logic I believe God exists ... Well you tell me how do you prove to an atheist or an agnostic that God exists?
Well, you can't prove anything about something unless you know what that something is, can you?
But I don't think we have to prove anything to anyone. If we KNOW ourselves, that's all that matters.
But we have to know. We can't not know.Through logic I know knargles exist, except I have no idea what knargles are. But they HAVE to exist. A book told me.
Do you see what's wrong here?you mentioned a 'black and white' example, what about things start getting 'grey-er'? For example I believe the Quran is the truth, while a lot of others don't... you really can't be sure who really is right. I have verified the signs myself all of them, while others verification process led them to believe that the quran is not from God. But you are right, there are things we can all see, its rare though... we are arguing all the time....
Well, if an idea is true, then it has to be true for everyone, right? I think the reason we argue is because some of us see the truth, while others refuse to, and sometimes we see the same things from different perspectives.
According to 1736, if god is true, then god must be "visible" to our senses and to our mind.peacepeace
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Salam Dargento and Spythebaby,
may i ask the two of you a question?
peace,
aimiYou just did.
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Through logic I know knargles exist, except I have no idea what knargles are. But they HAVE to exist. A book told me.
babythespy enjoyed the reference... but not just through logic do i know God exists, but through other signs in the universe. To me the Quran is a guide, it doesn't have all the answers. It asks itself to look for answers within the universe.
Well, you can't prove anything about something unless you know what that something is, can you?
But I don't think we have to prove anything to anyone. If we KNOW ourselves, that's all that matters.
But we have to know. We can't not know.I agree here, thats not my point or at least not my intended point..... my point is what we know ourselves is not necessarily in line with reality/truth. I am saying that since we all such vastly different views, how do we know who is right ? I am also not saying that there's anything wrong with our different views, in my opinion its what God intended, it'd be pretty damn boring if we were all the same and believed the exact thing. Also, it wouldn't promote free-thinking. I come across views that are different views from mine and I may not agree with them but I always consider them if they make sense. And they always have me thinking in a new light.
We may have to agree to disagree here peace
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peace,
hahaha, eheh.. sorry Babythespy.."spythebaby"..hehe
my question is,
how much do u know about Lobster that proves he exist?hehe no problem..i understood why you'd take it to mean that....
Very good question, I am impressed bravo and honestly.... we don't know...As babythespy said "He could just be a figment of our imagination"
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Dargento, we may have to...
but do you agree that we can't believe in something unless we know what it is? I mean, you have to have at least an idea of what god is, right?
Everyone has their own idea of god, but there has to be one true god. The quran (and all other spiritual/ religious books of the past), when it says "god," it is talking about one particular thing, and we need to understand what that thing is.and about whether I'm a figment or not...well, the thing is that Dargento only needs to prove what he needs to prove. My existence isn't of much importance in any way to anyone on this forum. I could actually be a knargle for all it matters.
If he needed to prove that I exist, though, I'm sure he can find a way to do that. I'm not hiding in a cave or anything.Babythespy, have you got your hands on deathly hallows yet? I'm through with 282 pages of it.